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Sidero 02-23-2010 07:40 AM

Trickster Online Equipment Pre-Project
 
Trickster Online Equipment Pre-Project

This is a pre-project for discussion about equipments in Trickster Online needed before start the Equipment Project. We decide update equipment categories for the best navigation and search. Errors were found in the categorization and some users have suggestions for improvement. Feel free to make your comments.

The current categorization may confuse some users indeed. For example, when looking Aestra Edge, its looks like a Sword, but it is classified as a Cane (has MA stat, hasn't AP). Other example, what right categorization of Witch's Parasol? It has both AP and MA stats. Currently it is categorized as Sword and Cane. And the weapons that have all 4 main stats (AP, MA, DA, HV) like Blood Sword, Tenter Lion Spear, etc.?

First, before we start to change the categories we need to make some premisses.

1. all equipments - for categorizing what parameters we use? appearance or stats? or both?

2. weapons - using stats for categorization, what predominant stats define the weapon categories? AP for Power, MA for Magic, DA for Sense, and HV for Charm?

3. weapons - since all weapons can be refined for increased AP or MA (not DA or HV) we consider that in the categorization of Power and Magic Types weapons, but how do this with the Sense and Charm Weapons?

4. hats and shields - can we use the same categorization of weapons? or define 2 categories based on DP or MD refinement?

5. head and face equipments - since myshop has these equipments based on 4 types, we can categorized that way?

6. accessories, capes, ears, tails - can we use the same categorization of weapons?

I made a table to view the stats combination and what kind of weapons are found in the game.

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1475/statstable.jpg


Sidero 02-27-2010 04:34 PM

a suggestion of new categorization is:

[[Category:Equipment|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:__TYPE1__|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Level __CL LEVEL__ __TYPE1__|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:__ORIGIN__ __TYPE2__ __TYPE1__|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:__STATS__ Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]

The first category belongs to Equipment type. See each items below. (edit the __TYPE1__ part). (this is a minor change)
1. Weapon - all equipment used to attack (located on Weapon Slot of Equipment Window).
2. Hat - all equipment used to cover the head (located on Hat Slot of Equipment Window).
3. Shield - all equipment used to protect the body (located on Shield Slot of Equipment Window).
4. Accessory - all equipment used as accessory (located on Accessory 1 and Accessory 2 Slots of Equipment Window). Unvisible equipment.
5. Innerwear - all equipment used as innerwear (located on Innerwear Slot of Equipment Window). Unvisible equipment.
6. Cape - all equipment used to protect the back (located on Cape Slot of Equipment Window).
7. Head - all equipment used above the head (located on Head Slot of Equipment Window).
8. Face - all equipment used to cover the face (located on Face Slot of Equipment Window).
9. Ears - all equipment used in the head like ears or horns (located on Ears Slot of Equipment Window).
10. Tail - all equipment used as a tail (located on Tail Slot of Equipment Window).

The second category belongs to Equipment level. The level classes is the same as Monster template (edit the __CL LEVEL__ part). (this is new category to make the search easy, already used on Monster section)

The third category belongs to Equipment origin and use by character. See each items below (edit the __ORIGIN__ and __TYPE2__ parts). (this is a minor change only to separate egg shop of 4g items, and add unique category)
Available types added to Wiki (edit the __ORIGIN__ part):
1. In-Game - Equipment obtained in-game. Ex: Shamshir
2. In-Game Event - Equipment obtained in-game in an Event. Ex: Forever Blade
3. MyShop - Equipment purchased in My Shop. Ex: Afrit's Fiery Blade
4. MyShop Event - Equipment purchased in My Shop or obtained by open My Shop box in an Event. Ex: Feather Mace, Kitty Paw 30
5. Gacha - Equipment obtained by drilling in Gacha Towns or open Gacha Boxes. Ex: Ancient Sword, Rosalyna's Spear
6. Egg Shop - Equipment obtained in Egg Shop. Ex: Mithril Serpent Sword
7. 4G - Equipment obtained by 4G exchange with Rosemary. Ex: Helm of Light
8. Unique - Unique equipment. Ex: Ice Diadem

Available types added to Wiki (edit the __TYPE2__ part) (this is the big change):
1. Power - Weapons/Accessories/Innerwear used by Power Types (must have AP; doesn't have MA, DA, HV; if weapon, DP refinable). Hat/Shield that are DP refineable.
2. Magic - Weapons/Accessories/Innerwear used by Magic Types (must have MA; doesn't have AP, DA, HV; if weapon, MD refinable). Hat/Shield that are MD refineable.
3. Sense - Accessories/Innerwear used by Sense Types (must have DA; doesn't have AP, MA, HV).
4. Missile - Weapons like guns or bows used by Sense Types (Gunners).
5. Charm - Accessories/Innerwear used by Charm Types (must have HV; doesn't have AP, MA, DA).
6. PS - Weapons/Accessories/Innerwear/Capes/Face/Head used by Power and Sense Types (must have AP and DA; doesn't have MA, HV; if weapon, DP refinable).
7. MS - Weapons/Accessories/Innerwear/Capes/Face/Head used by Magic and Sense Types (must have MA and DA; doesn't have AP, HV; if weapon, MD refinable).
8. PC - Weapons/Accessories/Innerwear/Capes/Face/Head used by Power and Charm Types (must have AP and HV; doesn't have MA, DA; if weapon, DP refinable).
9. MC - Weapons/Accessories/Innerwear/Capes/Face/Head used by Magic and Charm Types (must have MA and HV; doesn't have AP, DA; if weapon, MD refinable).
10. MSC - Weapons/Accessories/Innerwear/Capes/Face/Head used by all but Power Types (must have MA, DA, HV; doesn't have AP; if weapon, MD refinable).
11. PSC - Weapons/Accessories/Innerwear/Capes/Face/Head used by all but Magic Types (must have AP, DA, HV; doesn't have MA; if weapon, DP refinable).
12. PMC - Weapons/Accessories/Innerwear/Capes/Face/Head used by all but Sense Types (must have AP, MA, HV; doesn't have DA; if weapon, DP/MD refinable).
13. PMS - Weapons/Accessories/Innerwear/Capes/Face/Head used by all but Charm Types (must have AP, MA, DA; doesn't have HV; if weapon, DP/MD refinable).
14. Special - Weapons/Accessories/Innerwear/Capes/Face/Head used by all Types (must have AP, MA, DA, HV; if weapon, DP/MD refinable).
15. Sprint - Accessories with the extra stat: Speed. (they will have a future specific slot in Equipment window, as already have on kTO)
16. Pouch - Accessories with WT stat.

The fourth category belongs to Equipment compounds (edit __STATS__ Compoundable). (this is a minor change, only to add the missing critical and block categories)
1. Stats - AP, AC, DX, MP, MA, MD, WT, DA, LK, HP, DP, HV, and/or;
2. Attributes - Air Attr, Fire Attr, Water Attr, Soil Attr, Elec Attr, Light Attr, Dark Attr, Shadow Attr and/or;
3. Resistances - Air Resist, Fire Resist, Water Resist, Soil Resist, Elec Resist, Light Resist, Dark Resist, Shadow Resist and/or;
4. Status Protection - Critical, Block

for example: hunter's dagger http://wiki.ggftw.com/to-w/images/d/...27s_Dagger.gif is categorized that way:
[[Category:Equipment|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Weapon|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Level 181-200 Weapon|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Gacha PS Weapon|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:AC Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category: DA Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category: Dark Attr Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]

other example: forever katusa http://wiki.ggftw.com/to-w/images/4/...ver_Katusa.gif is categorized that way:
[[Category:Equipment|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Hat|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Level 41-60 Hat|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:In-Game Event Magic Hat|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:AC Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:MA Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category: DA Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:LK Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]

another example: princess's anklet http://wiki.ggftw.com/to-w/images/e/...27s_Anklet.gif is categorized that way:
[[Category:Equipment|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Accessory|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Level 41-60 Accessory|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:MyShop Event Special Accessory|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Sprint|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:AP Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:MP Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category: DA Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:LK Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:HP Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:HV Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]

all 3rd categories (Category:__ORIGIN__ __TYPE2__ __TYPE1__) will have lists such as we already have.

with this categorization the search and navigation will be more friendly and quickly, although need a considerable work...

please comments and suggestions will be appreciated. :py05:

Rydia 02-27-2010 11:25 PM

I'm sorta confused by some of this lol. It's late and I'm tired so I don't know if i am misinterpreting what you're saying so if I am I apologize.

I think categorizing these things so specifically isn't necessary. Most of these odd weapons that have AP+MA+HV+MP or other weird combination aren't going to be serious weapon choices for anyone so we shouldn't go through so much trouble for them.

I think what we have now is fine:

Guns: Easy...just guns lol.
Knives: DA compoundable weapons.
Swords: Refine for AP, have charm and power stats. A lot of charms and powers share the same equipment types so I don't think its a problem having them together like this.
Canes: Refine for MA/Comps MA.

I think if we just make the lists like the Hat/Shield sections then people can see all the stats/comp slots all right there in a list and can make the choice for themselves if they want to use it or not. I think its easier having it all listed on one page...

And this also confused me

Quote:

5. Charm - Accessories/Innerwear used by Charm Types (must have HV; doesn't have AP, MA, DA).
Charm accessories do have AP though, in fact a lot of charms want AP on their accessories because its part of our skills. @_@ Too many accessories cross over and are viable choices for multiple classes so I think again, having all the accessories in a similar fashion to the hats/shields would be ok. People can see all the stats right there on one page.

Sidero 02-28-2010 03:42 AM

thanks rydia! :py55:

yeah, i agree with you to simplify the categories. the above suggestion is the most "complete" but not the most practical. at least it's open the discussion to improve the equipment categorization.

but i have somes questions:

1. how to categorize a weapon that have AP, MA, and DA?
2. how to categorize a weapon that have AP and MA?
3. how to categorize a weapon that have MA and DA?

Rydia 02-28-2010 04:27 AM

Can they just be in all the different categories? Like the Blood Sword would be in Knives, Canes and Swords. Or would that cause problems? :<

Sidero 03-01-2010 10:31 AM

so, if a weapon has the stat(s) listed it will be categorized as described next to it.

1. AP (don't have MA, DA) - Sword;
2. MA (don't have AP, DA) - Cane;
3. AP, MA (don't have DA) - Sword and Cane
4. AP, DA (don't have MA) - Knife
5. MA, DA (don't have AP) - Cane and Knife
6. AP, MA, DA - Sword, Cane and Knife

in this suggestion we don't consider HV as stat that define any category.

we need that other users discuss this.

Zegridathes 03-01-2010 12:55 PM

Blood Sword is a cross-class weapon... it's applicable to any class (except for gun-lions/foxes) I haven't been on TO in a while, but aren't most equipments 'designed' with a particular class(es) in mind?

I know it's mostly event equipment, but haven't there been cases where an event item would be clearly 'designed' for say, magic-type, but take the visual appearance of a sword.

Wouldn't it be slightly confusing to categorize this 'sword' as a 'cane'?

Just some food for thought.

Sidero 03-01-2010 01:28 PM

good point zeg!

since ntreev creates specific weapons by type, in most cases, and can be confusing in the search and navigation to look for a weapon that has, for example, the stats of a Cane, but looks like a sword, my opinion is differentiating the equipment category by type, using the main stats of each type (AP for power, MA for magic, DA for sense, and HV for charm).

Esper 03-01-2010 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidero (Post 1170616)
so, if a weapon has the stat(s) listed it will be categorized as described next to it.

1. AP (don't have MA, DA) - Sword;
2. MA (don't have AP, DA) - Cane;
3. AP, MA (don't have DA) - Sword and Cane
4. AP, DA (don't have MA) - Knife
5. MA, DA (don't have AP) - Cane and Knife
6. AP, MA, DA - Sword, Cane and Knife

in this suggestion we don't consider HV as stat that define any category.

we need that other users discuss this.

I find those categories fine.
HV should be definitely ignored for these categories. HV is one of those states that Ntreev adds randomly, like into Magic gears.

As for uniques, I think we should just keep a separate category called uniques. I would find it weird if we place the unique weapons into each individual page.

Sidero 03-03-2010 01:02 PM

thanks, mirae! i agree that we have a specific category for boss and unique weapons that have AP, MA, and DA. but, i have some questions.

1. how about the weapons that have these stats (ex: wind dragon's blade) will be categorized like Unique?
2. and if a user search for a weapon that looks like a sword, but it is categorized as Cane? how fast the user find it?

Esper 03-03-2010 01:11 PM

I guess weapons like Wind Dragon's Blade would be categorized as Unique/Event since it's not a weapon that's easy to obtain.

Theoretically if the user knows the stats on that weapon, they should automatically assume which category is goes under.
Like if a weapon has AP only, it should be a sword.

vochtigepoesje 03-05-2010 09:57 AM

It's hard to tell whether a hat is md or dp refineable with ntreev gm's screwing up translations so many times. and i agree with rydia the amount of categories added will be too much.. but if this is going through count me in to revise the sections..

Sidero 03-08-2010 06:40 PM

Ok, we can define the equipment categories in that way:

[[Category:Equipment|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Level __CL LEVEL__ __TYPE1__|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:__TYPE1__|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:__TYPE2__|{{PAGENAME}}]] (only Weapon)
[[Category:__TYPE3__|{{PAGENAME}}]] (if Accessory)
[[Category:__ORIGIN__ __TYPE1__|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:__ORIGIN__ __TYPE2__|{{PAGENAME}}]] (only Weapon)
[[Category:__STATS__ Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]

The first category belongs to Equipment level. Like described in the 2nd post.

The second category belongs to Equipment type (edit the __TYPE1__ part; the name in brackets [ ] is to be used in set tables).
1. Weapon [N/A, see Type 2 category] - all equipment used to attack (located on Weapon Slot of Equipment Window).
2. Hat [Hat] - all equipment used to cover the head (located on Hat Slot of Equipment Window).
3. Shield [Shield] - all equipment used to protect the body (located on Shield Slot of Equipment Window).
4. Accessory [Acc] - all equipment used as accessory (located on Accessory 1 and Accessory 2 Slots of Equipment Window). Unvisible equipment.
5. Innerwear [Inner] - all equipment used as innerwear (located on Innerwear Slot of Equipment Window). Unvisible equipment.
6. Cape [Cape] - all equipment used to protect the back (located on Cape Slot of Equipment Window).
7. Head Accessory [Head] - all equipment used above the head (located on Head Slot of Equipment Window).
8. Face Accessory [Face] - all equipment used to cover the face (located on Face Slot of Equipment Window).
9. Ears [Ears] - all equipment used in the head like ears or horns (located on Ears Slot of Equipment Window).
10. Tail [Tail] - all equipment used as a tail (located on Tail Slot of Equipment Window).


The third category is appicable only for weapons (edit the __TYPE2__ part; the same name is to be used in set tables):
1. Sword - Weapons with AP stat (doesn't have DA).
2. Cane - Weapons
with MA stat.
3. Knife -
Weapons with DA stat (have AP or MA too).
4. Gun - Weapons with GunAP stat.
5. Special - Weapons with AP, MA, and LK (I named this category Special, not Unique, to avoid confusion with the Unique Weapons like boss drops, Shining Crystal Sword and Fallen Watcher Staff).

The fourth category is appicable only for accessories, if case (edit the __TYPE3__ part; this name is to be used in set tables, instead "Acc"):
1. Sprint - Accessories with the extra stat: Speed.
2. Pouch - Accessories with WT stat.

The fifth and sixth categories belongs to Equipment origin and use by character (edit the __ORIGIN__ part).
1. In-Game - Equipment obtained in-game. Ex: Shamshir
2. In-Game Event - Equipment obtained in-game in an Event. Ex: Forever Blade
3. MyShop - Equipment purchased in My Shop. Ex: Afrit's Fiery Blade
4. MyShop Event - Equipment purchased in My Shop or obtained by open My Shop box in an Event. Ex: Feather Mace, Kitty Paw 30
5. Gacha - Equipment obtained by drilling in Gacha Towns or open Gacha Boxes. Ex: Ancient Sword, Rosalyna's Spear
6. Egg Shop - Equipment obtained in Egg Shop. Ex: Mithril Serpent Sword
7. 4G - Equipment obtained by 4G exchange with Rosemary. Ex: Helm of Light
8. Unique - Unique equipment. Ex: Ice Diadem, Fallen Watcher Staff


The seventh category belongs to Equipment compounds.
Like described in the 2nd post.

Then we have, for example: Hunter's Dagger http://wiki.ggftw.com/to-w/images/d/...27s_Dagger.gif is categorized that way:
[[Category:Equipment|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Level 181-200 Weapon|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Knife|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Gacha Knife|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:AC Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category: DA Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category: Dark Attr Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]

Other example: Forever Katusa http://wiki.ggftw.com/to-w/images/4/...ver_Katusa.gif is categorized that way:
[[Category:Equipment|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Level 41-60 Hat|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Hat|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:In-Game Event Hat|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:AC Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:MA Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category: DA Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:LK Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]

Another example: Princess's Anklet http://wiki.ggftw.com/to-w/images/e/...27s_Anklet.gif is categorized that way:
[[Category:Equipment|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Level 41-60 Accessory|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Accessory|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Sprint|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:MyShop Event Accessory|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:AP Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:MP Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category: DA Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:LK Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:HP Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:HV Compoundable|{{PAGENAME}}]]

What do you think?

adipiciu 03-30-2011 05:02 AM

I agree with the categories and I want to start updating the equipment section.

Sidero 03-30-2011 05:09 AM

Great! The categories are described on Equipment Template too. Go on Adi! Thanks!

adipiciu 04-08-2011 10:19 AM

Before I start, it is ok to merge all the weapons (swords/cane/knifes) under a single category Weapon?

And about the level categories. It is not ok to name them Level 181-200 Weapon, because the weapons doesn't have a level cap. They have just a minimum level requirement. So I think it is better to name the categories just Level 190 Weapon. Just like in the Drills categories? Then we will have Level 10, 20, 30 40, etc categories.

Sidero 04-08-2011 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adipiciu (Post 1508136)
Before I start, it is ok to merge all the weapons (swords/cane/knifes) under a single category Weapon?

No, since they are different, and people search for it. The category Swords is for weapons that have AP (no MA, no DA), good for Power types, Canes is for weapons with MA (no AP, no DA), good for Magic types, and Knives is for weapons with AP or MA and DA, good for Sense Types or DA Sets. There is another category, Special Weapons, for weapons that have AP, MA and DA, good for all types.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adipiciu (Post 1508136)
And about the level categories. It is not ok to name them Level 181-200 Weapon, because the weapons doesn't have a level cap. They have just a minimum level requirement. So I think it is better to name the categories just Level 190 Weapon. Just like in the Drills categories? Then we will have Level 10, 20, 30 40, etc categories.

If each category, like Level 50 Weapon cover all weapons with level 50 to 59, it's a good idea. We have some weapons, also equipments and pets, that have 43, 55, 66, 105, or 205 level requirement.
But, at the moment, we don't revise these categories, since the existing cover all weapons, equipment and pets. And, thanks to your idea, Adi, now cover the Drills too. :py48:

vochtigepoesje 04-21-2011 07:54 AM

Do we add a new category to removed in-game gear? or just add the removed option


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