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04-19-2011   #1 (permalink)
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Default Character/Plot Disconnect?

If it's just me, then very well. Has anyone gotten the feeling that the plot and the character one plays is a bit disjointed from the game; or perhaps some plot holes?

Allow me to explain.
Your character starts out with a motivation upon arriving to the island. They meet with Esther, get registered, and proceed to beat the enemies as they become more familiar with moving about in the park, which is pretty much up to Desert/Pop, right?

To those who might've forgotten, this is what drives the main characters in a nutshell.
Bunny: Wants a pair of mammoth gloves she saw in an auction.
Cat: Cast in a movie, and wants to spend all of the prize money on that movie.
Buffalo: Tricked into fighting an illegal fighting match, and cheated out of the prize money by his manager. Supposedly(?) finds out about Trickster and seeks to claim the prize money for his injured opponent and family.
Sheep: A librarian who found a book about ancient magic. Heard about the prize money, wants to have her own library.
Dragon: Trying to find food and resources for his gypsy family.
Fox: Using the excuse of the competition to explore the island's secrets. (Possible mary sue alert?)
Raccoon: Chasing schoolgirls that ran away to the island who have gone looking for the treasure.

Plot doesn't really thicken until about Caballah onward. I don't think that it's really until you get to Oops that there's a sort of cohesive mini-plot that unifies the area other than just "Get me X/Kill Y". But I admit that as I type this, I haven't looked at the adventure book in a good while; I am probably poorly mistaken on a number of things.

And then points like this come to mind.
-This being a theme park, are they holograms, or more people in suits? Or some horror constructed from science? If it's people, then could it be considered glorifying people beating up other people in mascot suits/costumes? On the other hand, the NPC powers kinda forbid that treatment. That must be some epic amount of health insurance, though.

-Would the drills really be a sort of metal detector? That kind of drilling can't be good for the environment. But I guess for an environment that's got a big stiff upper lip, no complaining too terribly much, eh?

-It's a shame that we don't get to see any character dialogue with themselves; I kinda wish the characters weren't mute, hm, blank slate-types, if that's the best way to consider it. I don't think of being in that character, but "what gives me x+ stats and +xp?" Again, it might be just me.

Dialogue trees might make programming complicated, though.
We don't see the Bunny asking herself why should she help some of the islanders other than to possibly get some sticker to say she's worthy of moving onward; her character seems to be a very impatient person. And the Raccoon...um, well, there are security measures for lost/run-away children other than just going to the island himself. His going seems to be a bit extreme when the parents could do it.

-Jobs don't seem too particularly related to the plot other than just a restriction, much less make sense.

I suppose I'm nitpicking; but at what point in the game did you and the plot, if I can have a better way of saying it, part separate ways? What plot holes have you come across in the story?

Last edited by Hunter124Gamma; 04-19-2011 at 12:07 AM. Reason: minor grammar corrections
 
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04-19-2011   #2 (permalink)
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to be fair a lot of the plot holes come from the translation.
- calling the construction NPCS in mirage 4 Polkans in the adventure book, and then sandmen in person.

The plot itself is told from the episode quests, and as the episode quests aren't done yet you kinda just have to sit back and wait for ntreev to press play again.
 
04-19-2011   #3 (permalink)
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That's true. I haven't been able to get into Mirage, so I can't confirm anything past Oops, Ghost, and Merm.

Still, though; I can't help but scratch my head and mull over it. If I'm not mistaken, a Trickster as far as the story goes is a jovial (albeit mischievous?) deity who can control Harkon and loves complete freedom. But wouldn't there be some checks and balances to prevent one from, oh, putting the island in a state of famine as a joke? Wouldn't there be a bad side to being a Trickster, if it is something bestowed upon a mortal?

As for me, I don't mind spoilers, but highlight them in white since others don't if you wish to disperse them.
 
04-19-2011   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kale15
The plot itself is told from the episode quests, and as the episode quests aren't done yet you kinda just have to sit back and wait for ntreev to press play again.
I feel like s/he's referring to the fact that you never hear about the character's motives in the game ever again other than in their background information (yes, I have finished all 6 (incl. 0) episodes).

Though, to have all that information would be rather difficult, so I find it somewhat understandable.
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04-20-2011   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
I feel like s/he's referring to the fact that you never hear about the character's motives in the game ever again other than in their background information (yes, I have finished all 6 (incl. 0) episodes).

Though, to have all that information would be rather difficult, so I find it somewhat understandable.
You hit it on the nail. I'm pretty sure it would be hard to program a different response to an NPC with the character in mind, then again I would drop a small brick if my character out of no where opened up Camp and had a dialogue box in which it is asking me to plot a course of action. ._. Would be funny though.

I haven't heard anything towards what the Fox will do since she's on the island; I would have expected her to bring an excavation team after giving an area a thorough look-through for Plot Coupons that give more explanation of the island and its inhabitants.
I can't say anything for any of the characters, though. ^^;
 
04-20-2011   #6 (permalink)
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As they are "your" (the player's) characters, then I think it's safe to say that their motives are changed according to how the players play them~

But if I were to speculate:
- The Bunny wanted money for those rare gloves. As a Champion or Duelist, she can make more money in competitions
- The Buffalo wanted to make money for his opponent. As a Gladiator, he can do that in tournaments. As a Mercenary, he could take on dangerous jobs with big payoffs
- The Sheep wanted money for her own library. As a Soul Master or a Witch, she can write her own books to add to that (or to sell) about spirituality, yin yang energy ebb and flow, and how the elements of the world works.
- The Dragon wanted money to help his tribe. As a Priest, he can be a village doctor. As a Wizard, a spiritual leader (as the tribe worship the elements of the Earth, I think). As a Dark Lord....uhm.....take over the world? ^^;;
- The Fox wanted to explore the island. The Episode quests will unravel the true history of the Alteo Kingdom
- The Lion wanted to build the best robot for a competition. Scientists are good with machines. Cyber Hunters are good with software and the net
- The Cat wanted to put on a Broadway show. A Primadonna or a Diva would surely have great charisma and acting skills. That would make the show a sure hit!
- The Raccoon wanted to get the 7 Princesses back to school. They would never listen to a Schoolteacher. Maybe they'll listen to a rich Gambler or a noble Duke?

As for the story, remember that these people are descendants of the ancient Tricksters, the protectors of the Harkon and the Queen. The Queen and her tragic lover were divided by fate, but are reborn into this current time period. Don Cavalier knows that. Hence, the creation of the game, to call upon the Tricksters and maybe change the fate of the tragic lovers.

Drawn by different desires. But called upon by the same voice, and the same mission. They joined the game for their own reasons. But there is a more important mission for them to accomplish.
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Last edited by Torikakae; 04-20-2011 at 05:43 AM.
 
04-20-2011   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torikakae
As they are "your" (the player's) characters, then I think it's safe to say that their motives are changed according to how the players play them~

But if I were to speculate:
- The Bunny wanted money for those rare gloves. As a Champion or Duelist, she can make more money in competitions
- The Buffalo wanted to make money for his opponent. As a Gladiator, he can do that in tournaments. As a Mercenary, he could take on dangerous jobs with big payoffs
- The Sheep wanted money for her own library. As a Soul Master or a Witch, she can write her own books to add to that (or to sell) about spirituality, yin yang energy ebb and flow, and how the elements of the world works.
- The Dragon wanted money to help his tribe. As a Priest, he can be a village doctor. As a Wizard, a spiritual leader (as the tribe worship the elements of the Earth, I think). As a Dark Lord....uhm.....take over the world? ^^;;
- The Fox wanted to explore the island. The Episode quests will unravel the true history of the Alteo Kingdom
- The Lion wanted to build the best robot for a competition. Scientists are good with machines. Cyber Hunters are good with software and the net
- The Cat wanted to put on a Broadway show. A Primadonna or a Diva would surely have great charisma and acting skills. That would make the show a sure hit!
- The Raccoon wanted to get the 7 Princesses back to school. They would never listen to a Schoolteacher. Maybe they'll listen to a rich Gambler or a noble Duke?

As for the story, remember that these people are descendants of the ancient Tricksters, the protectors of the Harkon and the Queen. The Queen and her tragic lover were divided by fate, but are reborn into this current time period. Don Cavalier knows that. Hence, the creation of the game, to call upon the Tricksters and maybe change the fate of the tragic lovers.

Drawn by different desires. But called upon by the same voice, and the same mission. They joined the game for their own reasons. But there is a more important mission for them to accomplish.
  • That seems plausible; the Bunny would realize,"I want these. In this occupation, I can get this and much more!"
  • I was wondering...is the Buff a kid, too? O_o It would seem odd that Don didn't readily let Stella work because of her age, but the Buff can fight people to the death in either direction were he a child, too.
  • Makes sense; from my small time playing as a Sheep, I didn't see anything towards her getting blank books, though.
  • That's something I do see playing as a Fox, but my logic would be saying,"You know, you should totally try to preserve the cultures and take back what the native people would allow and not sell them for the theme park currency to get that crappy shield which does little to nothing. D:" Being a Hunter Lord, I guess there would be some control over wild/plant-life to do bidding.
  • The Lion can't just apply to be a robotic maintenance guy that fixes all the rides that are hardly seen or interacted with in the game, or become a dev? D; Surely with the Lion's skills at the get-go, Don wouldn't mind?
  • ....Knowing how stubborn he is, probably not. And it seems some travesty has befallen the devs having seen the Developer's Room or whatever it's called. ._. That's what happens when you form a union for better rights, I guess?
  • ....Yeah, that makes sense for the Cat. I guess she's thinking "Whatever I spend, I'll make it up as soon as I get that treasure! Even if it means my life!" Though when she hits that 3rd job, it seems as though she's still helping people for her own benefit..
  • But that's just a regular gaggle of schoolgirl geese. If they didn't listen to him (the Raccoon), he should have reported it to the school board so they can get suspended or something and stop them in their tracks. It would also question his teaching skills, too, don'cha think? I'd hate to get that report from him if it was during school time, much less explaining it to their parents. Was this a field trip or something, 'cos I don't recall that. D:
  • As for the Dragon, that matches too, but there doesn't appear to be anything which calls back to his people. I guess we know what happens to them when he advances to 3rd job; they become a channel for a skill that pulls together the energies of every living thing to perform an attack, or Soylent Green for Dark Lord.
  • /HELLFIRE IS PEOPLE! HELLFIRE IS PEOPLE!
....Come to think about it, where are the other kids and parents--especially concerning the younger main characters? Off-camera? They don't exist?
I haven't gotten that far to the Queen. I still have yet to beat Don.
 
04-20-2011   #8 (permalink)
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To answer a few:

- Plus she's a true athlete. She lives for the challenge~
- The Buffalo is an orphan. He grew up in the slums and in the school of hard knox. Regarding Stella, Don just doesn't like her so he makes up excuses. I mean, Marinel and Dorothy are way younger, yet they're part of the game.
- The Sheep is probably still gathering material. You know, meeting people, making experiences, getting inspiration, that sort of junk~
- The Fox only wanted knowledge. Whether she intends to preserve ancient cultures, we dunno~ Nothing really hinted that. And since Caballa Ruins looks quite preserved, I don't think she has to fight Don Cavalier for it~
- Don Giovanni would always mind. Always... Besides, once you reach Episode 5, you'll see that the Don has some secrets he wish to keep from prying eyes~
- Uhh...sure?
- By definition, Primadonnas are supposed to be selfish LOL
- The 7 princesses are not just any regular group of schoolgirls. AFAIK, they literally run the school. Not to mention, he has a bit of a history with those gals as well. Try reading Holden's (that's his name right?) storybook~
- Or world domination! That's what Dark Lords do~

For the younger characters (Bunny, Lion, Vinosh, Favian, etc...), they're independent enough to be on their own. We have no idea on what's the legal age where they are from~ For the really young characters (Marinel, Dorothy), they have someone who takes care of them (Grandma, Nate).
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04-20-2011   #9 (permalink)
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Well, first let me ask you, have you read all of the characters prologue books? (The wiki has them btw)

As for your issues with the story
-What even is there before Caballa Ruins? Paradise is the beginer town so it really doesn't count and Pop Dungeon might be more important to the plot than we think (Card ID trials are there remember?)

-Caballa isn't actually a theme park, it mysteriously appeared one day and then Don Cavallier bought it; he did alter some things after that but a lot of what you see was already there before Megalo got there.
This means that the monsters are not holograms or people in suits they are REAL monsters (or indigenous animals) the Deep Deep Story book does imply that some of the enemies where artificially created by Megalo tough

-I think the real Driller King Marky created drills for archeological excavations, but thats pure speculation on my part ._.

-Interestingly enough jobs ARE important to the plot, there's one guardian per job and they are a big part of it; so far only the Hunter Lord, the Primadonna and the Dark lord guardians have appeared (Robin, Rosapina and Janus respectively)

-Tricksters ARE NOT GODS is the title given to the 4 sacred champions of the Alteo empire, they had supernatural power but where not godly (also they didn't seem particularly mischievous or even playful -3-)

-The 7 Princess Club are not regular students they are DELINCUENTS, they ran away from home and are skipping school, the coon's job is the get them back by any means necessary.
Also I remember seeing somewhere that Rosemary is really strong, so the Raccoon probably can't bring them back by force and they will be hard to convince otherwise

-It's seem most of the characters are about the same age as the Raccoon, he's a student teacher so hes likely 22-ish; the only exceptions are Niea the Bunny who's still in highschool and Leo the Lion who still lives with his grandpa I think
The Lion's grandfather seemed to approve of him going to Caballa, as for Niea's mom.. idk ._.
the rest are old enough to be independent.


Finally, once the characters found out about the whole Nefertiti/Enkicladus love story - curse by the Fates that keeps spreading and getting worse and worse thing, they probably put their personal plans on hold.

Last edited by Dumma; 04-20-2011 at 03:11 PM.
 
04-23-2011   #10 (permalink)
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For me, the part where the characters' motives separated would be from the start of episode 2. Mainly because they get sucked into the creation of their "ancient tricksters" and the warring curse of two lovers binded by fate. I remember when I completed all of the episode quests I was completely pulled in by the story and plot. Well, all I can say is that maybe in the upcoming future episode quests, the characters' original motives will be fulfilled one way or another, after helping solve the mystery of why -everyone wants to seek out the harkon statue- and the love story. Since pretty much it kinda ties in with how their supposed "powers" were from the ancient era of caballa island.
I don't mind it drifting off, that is, if it is interesting.
 
04-27-2011   #11 (permalink)
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._. Sorry to get back to this really late.
Dumma: Thank you; I stand corrected on what I was wrong for.
Smiley: So it seems. :/ I think that's a bit of a drawback to having a bit of an AFGNCAP character, minus a couple of things.
Tori: Haven't gotten up to that point yet. x;
 

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