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Rating:  

8.7

View Poll Results: The most overpowering characters is...??? REVISOIN
BUNNY 45 53.57%
BUFFALO 2 2.38%
SHEEP 6 7.14%
DRAGON 6 7.14%
FOX 1 1.19%
LION 1 1.19%
CAT 1 1.19%
RACCOON 11 13.10%
I don't know...it difficult to say... 11 13.10%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

 
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04-19-2011   #41 (permalink)
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In my opinion the more proper way to deal with something like SoH would be to lower it's multiplier slightly, and increase it's cool-down dramatically. One main reason it's aggravating to most is because after you take the time and effort to bring it down, WHAM, re-cast. I mean seriously, on top of mist of mana, which gives a 45% increase, something that gives a regenerating armor wall of 4500% of your MA should have a cool-down of at least 1 or 2 minutes.

I'm just going to assume while we're talking about mages being overpowered, that we're talking about Dragons and hybrid Sheep. Because pure Sheep are about as SOL as Lions.

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04-19-2011   #42 (permalink)
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Theres 1 big problem with all you guys saying that SoH gets nerfed. I can seriously only name like 4-5 mages who have this "hax MA" your all talking about, o and btw since this is about PVP OPness more than PVM, i would like to point out that unless you've pvped with say the people myself,yen,and bloodybun have pvped with, then honestly the most OP class really isnt clear to any of you. To me, based on my pvping it acutally just depends on the character rather than the skills or class. Some buns can be 1 ar'ed some cant. Most mages can be 1 tetra'd by most bunnies but again it just depends on the character. So acutally i agree with Tragic on this one. The stat calculator will tell you the most OP class not PVP. PVP is based on nothing but who can spend more money, period.
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04-19-2011   #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destroyer68
So acutally i agree with Tragic on this one. The stat calculator will tell you the most OP class not PVP. PVP is based on nothing but who can spend more money, period.
Winner winner. /late

You all are all bent on PvP op'ness, which is all based off how much money you throw at SGI (aside from Senses, PvP-wise they'll always be underpowered). Take a look at Bunnies (Champions specifically) outside of PvP. They can't train (over-statement, however somewhat valid). Period. Why is that? No kind of AoE skill at all. They have all this power, but really can't do much with it in the realm of PvM aside from slaughtering bosses with Quad and Tetra.

If you ask me at any time of day, I find Magic types (especially Hybrid Lights) to be overpowered in any scenario. They have way too much durability with their shields (not as much with Dark Mages, more of an increased damage output) for a class that should be below the Charm class in tanking. But do they sacrifice damage for durability? Not at all. Arrow Rush is way too overpowered for a first job skill. And then throw in the fact that their MP-growth is off the charts and they get attack skills that are 100~200 MP? All of the Buffalo's AoE swords are 500+ MP and have longer cooldowns and often kill less, what the hell is up with that?

Magics are ridiculously overpowered, end of story.
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04-19-2011   #44 (permalink)
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*applauds* Yes, indeed.
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04-20-2011   #45 (permalink)
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buns 26 votes
 
04-20-2011   #46 (permalink)
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lolz...this tread is starting to become funny to me LMFAO!

althow these are some cereal issues :I...
 
04-20-2011   #47 (permalink)
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The thing is though Illusive..most mages have well over that amount of MA in pvp now. There's not THAT many mages in pvp, but the ones that do frequently pvp have well over 1.2k MA..
And destroyer..It's not about how much money you spend on the game really..That may be SOME of the problem with mages and SoH, but it's definitely not the problem for bunnies. MOST bunnies in pvp have a tetra that has a combined total of WELL over 100k damage..The skill is overpowered and so is SoH you have to admit it :s

But yeah, Destroyer knows the type of mages I fight, because he fights them himself.. And they are COMPLETELY overpowered..It's not as much as it is myshop as it is the skill SoH..It's multiplier is too strong like someone said in this thread~
And it's not as much as it is myshop..It's more how easy it is for mages to get equips~I'm making a dark sheep, and I already know how to get her equips..It's not hard at all ._.

Anyway..They should definitely edit a few skills because tetra and SoH are flat out overpowered..No matter what the stats, SoH is a shield..and that's enough said ><
And tetra hits 4 times, getting stronger every hit..Coming from a power, that's also enough said >:

Last edited by YenSai; 04-20-2011 at 03:47 PM.
 
04-20-2011   #48 (permalink)
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Maybe I missed the point of the thread, but I thought it was discussing overpowered classes based on skills. We all know that equips make a huge difference to how overpowered anyone is in Trickster, regardless of class. I am aware that the number of people with really high MA (let's say over 2000) is relatively small, but that doesn't in any way change the fact that SoH is a completely imbalanced skill.

To show my point, I'll use some numbers (yay). Let's say a lvl 200 champion with a 4114 pure HP build takes on a lvl 200 priest with a 1441 pure MA build. Neither have any equips at all.

The champion will have 12090 HP (based on the formulae in the Trickster wiki). Now compare that with the priest: he has 149 MA. Now multiply that by 45, which is the multiplier on mastered SoH, and you get 6738 HP. Add to that his base HP which is 1590 HP. The total is 8328 HP.

Now factor in mist of mana, which increases MA by 1.45x, bringing it to 216. Now SoH has 9722 HP; adding the base HP brings the new total to 11312 HP. That's only 778 HP less than the champion. Consider that whilst the champion has put everything into her survival at the cost of damage, the priest has invested in both his power and survival.

Let's say the priest uses arrow rush (mastered, with mastered mana arrow) with mist of mana up against the champion, who'll have 186 MD. Each hit of AR does 2066 damage, thus 6 arrows are sufficient to KO the champion with 12090 HP, and as the priests LK is much higher than the champion's, that's a certainty.

Now, in a second round the champion strikes first and uses tetra punch. With pumping heart up, she has 944 AP (remember she's pure HP). The priest has 192 DP. The total damage output is 18494 damage, which appears to be ample to OHKO the priest. But, the first 3 hits of tetra punch only total 8413 damage, which is not enough to remove SoH (9722 HP), so the final hit of tetra punch is absorbed by SoH*, leaving the priest unscathed and able to launch a counterattack in the time it took the champion to cast tetra punch.

The above scenario is rather simplistic and I know there are numerous other ways the 2 characters could fight the battle. The point I'm making is how completely unfair SoH is even on a mage with mediocre equips, even when not factoring in light shield. Admittedly a pure AP bunny would KO the priest, but this is considering what is also a highly unbalanced attack, namely tetra punch. No other class in the same situation would stand a chance.

To the less numerically inclined, I apologise if I fried your brain, and to the more numerically inclined I apologise if I screwed up the maths somewhere; please feel free to point out any mistakes.

*Note, I'm not sure if SoH does work like I've stated or if the remaining damage from tetra punch would in fact damage the priest and thus KO him, someone feel free to confirm which is right.
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Last edited by Skyart; 04-20-2011 at 03:48 PM. Reason: Typo
 
04-20-2011   #49 (permalink)
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SoH used to block extra damage if it was broken, but it doesn't now. The Mage would die, but if the Mage got off a simple Rust, that Bunny is down.
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04-20-2011   #50 (permalink)
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ya i was also gonna say lol i would live through most bunnies tetra if not all if i could block the last attack xD
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04-20-2011   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illusive
I really don't see the need to nerf any of the skills, except maybe SoH (and this is coming from an ex light wizard). The average mage maybe has around 800-1200 MA, and you guys keep making it sound like everybody is hax; some of the haxness of skills are actually needed for the average players.

Just because a decent chunk of people are ultra hax, doesn't mean the skills need to be nerfed and ruined for the average/normal people. Even if 98% of the current skills were severely nerfed, you guys would be complaining that the ultra hax powers and mages still are able to kill you.

The ultra rich and resourceful people of Trickster will always dominate with nerfed skills or not, while the poor and weak will still continue to suffer. Such is life.

By the way, I am very far from being considered hax myself. I'm complaining because of a skill nerf not because it'll make me less hax, but because it'll make my characters even more weak than they already are. I don't have any power type characters, either.
I agree. PvP is dominated by who has the most cash to spend, not so much by class (although DA refine equips would be appreciated). Most magic users lv 150 or more have around 1k MA, not everyone will surpass 1.2 k or more. And on that note, I have more than decent MA and LK and still get killed a lot in PvP by non-magic users.

Also, there are a lot of skills that different people will complain about being overpowered, so nerfing of particular skills is not really the answer. For me, I particularly hate Full Houses, as players with that skill on PvP almost always hit me for damage and end up killing me in the end because they are able to recast it before I am able to get out of there in the first place.
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04-20-2011   #52 (permalink)
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But by eliminating/nerfing SoH, there's absolutely no (or low, whatever) payoff of choosing to become a light mage at all.

Sure. Breaking it down simply, bunnies get absolutely NO AoE attacks, but light mages do, plus they have an amazing [*flings arms around*] skill that neutralizes all damage whatsoever/makes us equal to the bunny's HP!

But we also have to look at what happens /before/ that. What do light mages get before its god given gifts? Light arrow, light shield. A half baked attempt at a light show which is completely overshadowed by a simple first class skill, and a meager buff that cuts off chip damage. Whoopdeedoo. Through 119 TM levels of game play. (I've taken around an entire month straight to get to lv 120 unfunded [well, just a little funded. Golden mole vest, tut helm, good lv 100 pet, a few things like that].)

(Note that I, and the MAJORITY of players are unfunded/doesn't have access to the multitudes of unique and godly weaponry as you all seem to flaunt.) We have to rely on the basics (mainly arrow rush, yippy me, or mana ring if you're crazy) and mana storm. Sure, mana storm is an AoE, but why does it matter? Before high levels, there are absolutely no mobs that bunch up enough to make mana storm's damage more than arrow rushes.

I don't know about you, but I don't think everyone here (or at least everyone that's playing the game) are all super funded Lv 200s that all have every skill that they need. We don't have broken fiesta. We don't have any super low leveled equipment to help us cheat around. And we have to drill for hours to get maybe one or two levels.

Idk, from what I'm getting, everyone sees it to be fair to kill off at least half the power of SoH. But what will light mages be then? Their only decent AoE for quite a while is Radiant Strike, which requires for the mage to literally walk into the center of monsters they want to hit and become a sitting duck. If SoH can't even absorb a mere 2-3 hits, then training would literally be impossible if you can't OHKO (which I can't even always do with arrow rush).

Maybe I'm being self centered here, but the only reason I chose to switch from dark to light dragon is because, although sacrificing random OHKOing dark lances falling from the sky (..and incredible physical immunity), light mages get to tank a few hits before going down. By nerfing SoH, it isn't exactly making wizards and witches less overpowered, but rather making light mages unattractive, thus turning it into a third-rate class. =/

... tl;dr
Yeah. I'm sure if SoH was dead/crippled, there would, literally, be no light mages. At all.
Unless they were to shift around the TM levels/skills so that we got SOME kind of reimbursement.

Sure, you might think that it's a smart idea since you're, in a sense, "balancing" out the characters in the long run. But it's an idiotic concept in which you're actually just scaring away newer players (, those that are foolishly lulled into the cleric ideal, anyway).

(And it's lovely that everyone's looking toward PvP for accurate comparisons of overpoweredness for characters. Newsflash. PvP doesn't constitute the entire game.)

Last edited by MidnightSnack; 04-20-2011 at 08:15 PM.
 
04-20-2011   #53 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenofEden
But by eliminating/nerfing SoH, there's absolutely no (or low, whatever) payoff of choosing to become a light mage at all.

Sure. Breaking it down simply, bunnies get absolutely NO AoE attacks, but light mages do, plus they have an amazing [*flings arms around*] skill that neutralizes all damage whatsoever/makes us equal to the bunny's HP!

But we also have to look at what happens /before/ that. What do light mages get before its god given gifts? Light arrow, light shield. A half baked attempt at a light show which is completely overshadowed by a simple first class skill, and a meager buff that cuts off chip damage. Whoopdeedoo. Through 119 TM levels of game play. (I've taken around an entire month straight to get to lv 120 unfunded [well, just a little funded. Golden mole vest, tut helm, good lv 100 pet, a few things like that].)

(Note that I, and the MAJORITY of players are unfunded/doesn't have access to the multitudes of unique and godly weaponry as you all seem to flaunt.) We have to rely on the basics (mainly arrow rush, yippy me, or mana ring if you're crazy) and mana storm. Sure, mana storm is an AoE, but why does it matter? Before high levels, there are absolutely no mobs that bunch up enough to make mana storm's damage more than arrow rushes.

I don't know about you, but I don't think everyone here (or at least everyone that's playing the game) are all super funded Lv 200s that all have every skill that they need. We don't have broken fiesta. We don't have any super low leveled equipment to help us cheat around. And we have to drill for hours to get maybe one or two levels.

Idk, from what I'm getting, everyone sees it to be fair to kill off at least half the power of SoH. But what will light mages be then? Their only decent AoE for quite a while is Radiant Strike, which requires for the mage to literally walk into the center of monsters they want to hit and become a sitting duck. If SoH can't even absorb a mere 2-3 hits, then training would literally be impossible if you can't OHKO (which I can't even always do with arrow rush).

Maybe I'm being self centered here, but the only reason I chose to switch from dark to light dragon is because, although sacrificing random OHKOing dark lances falling from the sky (..and incredible physical immunity), light mages get to tank a few hits before going down. By nerfing SoH, it isn't exactly making wizards and witches less overpowered, but rather making light mages unattractive, thus turning it into a third-rate class. =/

... tl;dr
Yeah. I'm sure if SoH was dead/crippled, there would, literally, be no light mages. At all.
Unless they were to shift around the TM levels/skills so that we got SOME kind of reimbursement.

Sure, you might think that it's a smart idea since you're, in a sense, "balancing" out the characters in the long run. But it's an idiotic concept in which you're actually just scaring away newer players (, those that are foolishly lulled into the cleric ideal, anyway).

(And it's lovely that everyone's looking toward PvP for accurate comparisons of overpoweredness for characters. Newsflash. PvP doesn't constitute the entire game.)
Well first of all I would like you to point out where in this thread anyone said they wanted SoH to become useless, or even half the power of SoH? Most people in this thread are talking about PvP, not PvE. Also, if dark mages can lvl without SoH and dark barrier, then light mages sure can. You have cure..We are talking about in the long run, not level 100s..You can VERY easily level up then by doing quests..period end of story :S
And if they did nerf SoH to a REASONABLE standard and there were no light mages, that would show enough of who actually isn't a coward(pvp-wise)..
You act as if we said we wanted SoH to be 1 hit and it be down..Seriously ><

I agree that SoH is needed, because light mages have no protection like dark mages do with Dark barrier..but what it is right now is not protection..it's turned into an offensive skill..

I'm making a dark witch right now, and I don't have SoH or dark barrier and I manage JUST fine. So if you're saying that you NEED SoH to survive just monsters for leveling..Maybe you should consider a different class .-.

Last edited by YenSai; 04-20-2011 at 08:45 PM.
 
04-20-2011   #54 (permalink)
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im with Yen even though im a light wizard i still say soh can be nerfed it wont bother me that much i mean...as long as its not to rediculous...but as long as its still fair with the nerf its fine and acutally at low levels i say mages are pretty easy to level honestly if u have just decent gear u can 1 hit mostly anything and yes indeed..mages have cure..which has no cooldown so mages at low levels are pretty easy lol
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04-20-2011   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YenSai
Well first of all I would like you to point out where in this thread anyone said they wanted SoH to become useless, or even half the power of SoH? Most people in this thread are talking about PvP, not PvE. Also, if dark mages can lvl without SoH and dark barrier, then light mages sure can. You have cure..We are talking about in the long run, not level 100s..You can VERY easily level up then by doing quests..period end of story :S
And if they did nerf SoH to a REASONABLE standard and there were no light mages, that would show enough of who actually isn't a coward(pvp-wise)..
You act as if we said we wanted SoH to be 1 hit and it be down..Seriously ><

I agree that SoH is needed, because light mages have no protection like dark mages do with Dark barrier..but what it is right now is not protection..it's turned into an offensive skill..

I'm making a dark witch right now, and I don't have SoH or dark barrier and I manage JUST fine. So if you're saying that you NEED SoH to survive just monsters for leveling..Maybe you should consider a different class .-.
And I'm assuming there would be no point if SoH were just to be nerfed "a little". o_o I haven't heard anyone (maybe one?) say "a little overpowered" just yet. And I don't recall PvP being an absolute judge of how overpowered characters are. Dark mages have hell fire and wicked flame. Then there's blood testament a little later! I've already had a dark mage and I've found it to be more bearable, even before blood testament even came out, which doesn't really matter, because of revolution, orz. And if you were talking about in the long run, I'm going to have to say that that's logically unsound. Having to work my butt off for a mediocre character versus someone who didn't isn't exactly "balanced". Like exchanging 8 hours of work for 2$, when someone is paying 4 hours for $2. Very easily? Excuse me? Here I am drilling 4 hours straight for 2 gold carriage contracts, and you call it easy? Woah, slow down now. Not to mention them even mentioning the need for gold/bronze nora stones. Uh yeah, and maybe those cures would help if I didn't die in two shots. And I mean that literally. Two shots.

That's kind of strange, since I've seen more raccoons than I have seen light mages. Maybe I've been running into the wrong people? PvE, wise. You know.. reality? Well since we can kill you in one mana arrow, or so I've heard, I'm assuming that, to balance it, you want to be able to do the same.

Not necessarily. Dark barrier chops of almost half of physical damage. Maybe it's not defensive in your opinion, but it really IS defensive... well, ALONG with offensive.

Sheepies get AoE pretty early in the game. I would kill for wind blade right now. Or electro shock. Seriously. I have light arrow. Do you want to switch? And you're right. That is, everyone reasonable enough to research classes beforehand. But from the looks of it, everybody who is a light mage, will have to "reconsider".

haha. This is experience from nora mummies killing me in a heartbeat. I can't even handle more than one. And with my awe inspiring "long range" magic, I have to walk up to them when I'm over 3 inches away. I don't even get a little electro shock to keep them in place. Or a quick finisher like wind blade.

Last edited by MidnightSnack; 04-20-2011 at 09:09 PM.
 
04-20-2011   #56 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GardenofEden
And I'm assuming there would be no point if SoH were just to be nerfed "a little". o_o I haven't heard anyone (maybe one?) say "a little overpowered" just yet. And I don't recall PvP being an absolute judge of how overpowered characters are. Dark mages have hell fire and wicked flame. Then there's blood testament a little later! I've already had a dark mage and I've found it to be more bearable, even before blood testament even came out, which doesn't really matter, because of revolution, orz. And if you were talking about in the long run, I'm going to have to say that that's logically unsound. Having to work my butt off for a mediocre character versus someone who didn't isn't exactly "balanced". Like exchanging 8 hours of work for 2$, when someone is paying 4 hours for $2. Very easily? Excuse me? Here I am drilling 4 hours straight for 2 gold carriage contracts, and you call it easy? Woah, slow down now. Not to mention them even mentioning the need for gold/bronze nora stones. Uh yeah, and maybe those cures would help if I didn't die in two shots. And I mean that literally. Two shots.

That's kind of strange, since I've seen more raccoons than I have seen light mages. Maybe I've been running into the wrong people? PvE, wise. You know.. reality? Well since we can kill you in one mana arrow, or so I've heard, I'm assuming that, to balance it, you want to be able to do the same.

Not necessarily. Dark barrier chops of almost half of physical damage. Maybe it's not defensive in your opinion, but it really IS defensive... well, ALONG with offensive.

Sheepies get AoE pretty early in the game. I would kill for wind blade right now. Or electro shock. Seriously. I have light arrow. Do you want to switch? And you're right. That is, everyone reasonable enough to research classes beforehand. But from the looks of it, everybody who is a light mage, will have to "reconsider".

haha. This is experience from nora mummies killing me in a heartbeat. I can't even handle more than one. And with my awe inspiring "long range" magic, I have to walk up to them when I'm over 3 inches away. I don't even get a little electro shock to keep them in place. Or a quick finisher like wind blade.
Well who's fault is it that you can't survive a nora? :s You should change your build..
You keep saying PvE is the "real game"..Well guess what, pvp is a big part of the game..Lots of people play TO MAINLY for pvp. Also..the quests you can buy fairly cheap..Don't even complain about money because it's not hard to make. You really should stop with the big attitude.
If SoH means THIS much to you.. like I said earlier..SERIOUSLY make another character. And choose the right build, so you don't have to come on forums and complain about easy monsters killing you in 1 hit~

My sheep is lvl 75 and she has no AoE. Guess how long it took me to get there? 3 days. Like I said, you have cure and you have quests you can do to EASILY level up to whatever you need..So seriously don't bring all of this onto this thread.. We are discussing overpowered characters/skills..Not people who can't survive a nora or do quests~

Look what Destroyer said, he himself is a light wizard and he even admits SoH is a little overpowered. He wouldn't even mind it being nerfed..AND he even admits that it's easy for mages to level at low lvls..And in my opinion, it's easier to level than other chars because of cure >_<
 
04-20-2011   #57 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by YenSai
Well who's fault is it that you can't survive a nora? :s You should change your build..
You keep saying PvE is the "real game"..Well guess what, pvp is a big part of the game..Lots of people play TO MAINLY for pvp. Also..the quests you can buy fairly cheap..Don't even complain about money because it's not hard to make. You really should stop with the big attitude.
If SoH means THIS much to you.. like I said earlier..SERIOUSLY make another character. And choose the right build, so you don't have to come on forums and complain about easy monsters killing you in 1 hit~

My sheep is lvl 75 and she has no AoE. Guess how long it took me to get there? 3 days. Like I said, you have cure and you have quests you can do to EASILY level up to whatever you need..So seriously don't bring all of this onto this thread.. We are discussing overpowered characters/skills..Not people who can't survive a nora or do quests~

Look what Destroyer said, he himself is a light wizard and he even admits SoH is a little overpowered. He wouldn't even mind it being nerfed..AND he even admits that it's easy for mages to level at low lvls..And in my opinion, it's easier to level than other chars because of cure >_<
And be a ghetto raccoon? Maybe if I didn't suffer dire consequences by straying off the main build. :/ Do you live in PvP? I mean, to sum it up, most of a player's time isn't spent in PvP. And I don't suppose that the majority of players focus on PvP. I might be wrong, though. But if you wish, you could ask every player out there and see their opinion. Actually, I usually see Rose quest items for 50k each. And I make around a mil per day, and I'm probably one of the most fiscal people you would ever meet. o_o; I apologize for the attitude, that's the way I speak/rant. I hope for you to be the mature one and ignore it. I just don't like how a beginner's (I'm still going to pretend that "beginners" make up the majority.) efforts are being extremely downplayed, especially since everyone doesn't always get the same circumstances as another.

Actually, it does. It's my first character (well, not exactly). And you're lucky I am willing to. Not that many people, in my shoes, would. I did choose the right build. For SoH. Once or if it's changed, however, I can't guarantee. Just expressing my opinion, like you. (:

I got to level 60 in one day. But everyone should know by now that leveling becomes a slump after Caballa/Oops. I couldn't OHKO crows and any crow related quests took darn well past forever. Especially since if I didn't kill them quickly enough, they went berserk and slaughtered me. What I'm saying that it might be easy for you, but not easy for others. You know, the ones that you treat to be invisible, past this compact community?

Oh. Well in that case, then you've just single handedly proved that all characters are meant to be used for PvP and have no significant use outside of it. ^^

(and I dunno. Cure at lower levels doesn't really impress me. HP pots are much better to use because they heal more if not just as much HP, and I don't have to target myself while running away [which is probably the reason why I have to heal myself in the first place]. Plus, I have to use MP pots to cast cure anyway, which are just as heavy to use, but cost more. o_o; )

Last edited by MidnightSnack; 04-20-2011 at 09:41 PM.
 
04-20-2011   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenofEden
But by eliminating/nerfing SoH, there's absolutely no (or low, whatever) payoff of choosing to become a light mage at all.
That was the way before SoH happened. Virtually every Mage was a Dark Mage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenofEden
Sure. Breaking it down simply, bunnies get absolutely NO AoE attacks, but light mages do, plus they have an amazing [*flings arms around*] skill that neutralizes all damage whatsoever/makes us equal to the bunny's HP!
Having an AoE already makes you better than a Bunny, even if you are squishier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenofEden
But we also have to look at what happens /before/ that. What do light mages get before its god given gifts? Light arrow, light shield. A half baked attempt at a light show which is completely overshadowed by a simple first class skill, and a meager buff that cuts off chip damage. Whoopdeedoo. Through 119 TM levels of game play. (I've taken around an entire month straight to get to lv 120 unfunded [well, just a little funded. Golden mole vest, tut helm, good lv 100 pet, a few things like that].)
Hybrid already fixes half of the issues with Light. Also, Light's general mediocrity was a major reason for going Dark, because Dark was more offensive whereas Light as significantly less offensive and much more support/defensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenofEden
(Note that I, and the MAJORITY of players are unfunded/doesn't have access to the multitudes of unique and godly weaponry as you all seem to flaunt.) We have to rely on the basics (mainly arrow rush, yippy me, or mana ring if you're crazy) and mana storm. Sure, mana storm is an AoE, but why does it matter? Before high levels, there are absolutely no mobs that bunch up enough to make mana storm's damage more than arrow rushes.
That and Mana Storm is shit anyways (opinion).

Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenofEden
I don't know about you, but I don't think everyone here (or at least everyone that's playing the game) are all super funded Lv 200s that all have every skill that they need. We don't have broken fiesta. We don't have any super low leveled equipment to help us cheat around. And we have to drill for hours to get maybe one or two levels.
Read my side-panel info. I'm a level 172 Cyber Hunter. I have about 8m in hard galder. I have some above average gear, but it doesn't even hold a candle to what some of these guys have. However, I have been playing since the game was released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenofEden
Idk, from what I'm getting, everyone sees it to be fair to kill off at least half the power of SoH. But what will light mages be then? Their only decent AoE for quite a while is Radiant Strike, which requires for the mage to literally walk into the center of monsters they want to hit and become a sitting duck. If SoH can't even absorb a mere 2-3 hits, then training would literally be impossible if you can't OHKO (which I can't even always do with arrow rush).
2-3 hits is a lot, especially in PvP. Given that you aren't about PvP and more about PvM, yes it's nothing in PvM. But at the same time, blocking two/three hits is much better than taking two/three hits. Look at Guard, a balanced defensive skill (in my opinion, PvM only).

Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenofEden
Maybe I'm being self centered here, but the only reason I chose to switch from dark to light dragon is because, although sacrificing random OHKOing dark lances falling from the sky (..and incredible physical immunity), light mages get to tank a few hits before going down. By nerfing SoH, it isn't exactly making wizards and witches less overpowered, but rather making light mages unattractive, thus turning it into a third-rate class. =/
Removing SoH would make Hybird mages significantly less overpowered. In my eyes, the main reason that Hybrid Magics are so ridiculous in PvM is the fact that they have this godmode skill with enough MA. I've played two Sheeps, a level 150 Sheep who is Light/Fire/Electric and does not have SoH, and a level 190 sheep who is Light/Wind/Water who has SoH. They both have roughly around the same MA, ~800 MA. Whenever I play the level 190 Sheep, it's always significantly easier to play. Why is that? I dunno, maybe it's because she has this one skill that blocks way too much damage for PvM purpose.

With 800 MA and Mastered, SoH blocks 36000 damage, with a duration of 66 seconds on a cooldown of 10 seconds and a 560 MP a pop. Guard blocks 5 attacks (unaffected by stats), with a duration of 53 on a cooldown of 22 seconds and costs 510 MP a cast.
What. The. Hell. If you don't see sheer imbalance in this, I don't know what's wrong with you (in a PvM sense, also directed primarily at Eden)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenofEden
Yeah. I'm sure if SoH was dead/crippled, there would, literally, be no light mages. At all.
And as I said earlier, that's how it was before SoH came around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenofEden
Sure, you might think that it's a smart idea since you're, in a sense, "balancing" out the characters in the long run. But it's an idiotic concept in which you're actually just scaring away newer players (, those that are foolishly lulled into the cleric ideal, anyway).
As a support characters, they are horrible at supporting other players. Sure they can remove debuffs, but who bosses with more than one person anyways? Why should (in my opinion) the least tanky type (Charm > Power > Foxes > Magics = Lions) be given a skill that vastly improves their survivability to a level that isn't even fair. Look at MapleStory. Mages there have Mana Guard and it's a similar idea to SoH, other than the fact that you take a hit with your HP and you lose MP. Do they have survivability issues? Not really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenofEden
(And it's lovely that everyone's looking toward PvP for accurate comparisons of overpoweredness for characters. Newsflash. PvP doesn't constitute the entire game.)
I looked solely at PvM because I despise PvP. Did you miss my post or something? o-O;
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Last edited by james; 04-20-2011 at 10:08 PM.
 
04-20-2011   #59 (permalink)
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PVP is based on nothing but who can spend more money, period.
THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. e

It has been like this ever since MS came out. Trickster's an OHKO fest now, k?
No character class is overpowered, just bank accounts.
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04-20-2011   #60 (permalink)
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GardenofEden:
A lot of PVP DO make characters just for PVP or another reason.
I have five 3rd jobs, and I'm kicking myself for it all the time because I lose interest so quickly in one character and their skills.
Raccoon was my first character. Got tired of how hard it was to grind.
I only made a Soul Master for Staff of Lightning. Got no further afterwards.
Made a fox for the coolness of Hide.
Made a priest, don't even know why, but deleted it at level 177 the other day.
Now, my main, the lion, I made for mainly the sole reason of bossing and I'm hoping I can keep with it.

If you didn't care about PVP, you wouldn't even be in this thread right now...but I have to mention that a lot of people make characters for PVP. I can't see anyone grinding forever on a bunny for no reason.
If you go to PVP often, you'll notice the same people over and over again, especially in Fantasia. Most have characters made for PVP only - I have a friend who was just talking about making his coon's HP up to 80k. People enjoy PVPing. It's just human nature who's better than the other.

But off that topic. Yes, I made a priest. It's painfully hard in the beginning to combo and kill, especially with Arrow of Light being as weak it is, and the only strong move Arrow Rush. But later on, you get Oath of Light, and that helped immensely while training. I could constantly heal while battling. It was easy to handle.

You seem to be arguing that you die a lot and that you would complain if the move was nerfed.
I'll point out several points.
1. There's no guarantee it would happen at all. This is just a fansite.
2. This is a PVP thread. People here tend to be much more competitive than the regular PvM.
3. SoH isn't that invincible. You seem to treat it as a trump card or somewhat. I believe Light Mages have enough to survive with, having Light Shield, SoH, and two constantly healing moves. Not to mention Catastrophe Heal.
My priest had 16k HP. I didn't abuse SoH. I had a balance of around that much HP and 500 MA at Level 177. Yes, one can survive.
4. Or just don't go to PVP or concern yourself with it. I find myself agonized over it a lot - for heck, my lion wasn't strong enough before to one hit KO bats in Vamp Trials and some bunny nearly gets killed by some of them bezerking.
Later, accompanying my friend to PVP, he "KOS" me just because his bunny almost dies in Vamp Trials.
Talk about preposterous.
 

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