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12-05-2011   #1961 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudBiscuit
Why would you need that? People can obviously lie about personal information but they can never change/hide their IP address.
That is obviously some sort of joke and/or sarcasm.

Regarding change/hide IP addresses, that statement is questionable but I will not delve into that topic in this forum.
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12-05-2011   #1962 (permalink)
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@Dande, there's not point in defending Mayzie even though you guys were friends for a long time and may still be. (I've seen you two a lot back then together) He/She has already been proven a scammer with solid evidence.
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12-06-2011   #1963 (permalink)
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weeeeeeeeeee

They're trying to sell MS, so I put a bb up saying that they're a scammer to warn everyone. o:



Way to say you're not a scammer, then say you're never gonna return it.
 
12-06-2011   #1964 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atmosphere
@Dande, there's not point in defending Mayzie even though you guys were friends for a long time and may still be. (I've seen you two a lot back then together) He/She has already been proven a scammer with solid evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eien
We'd be going against a certain rule if we posted it, and that is something we aren't about to do.

Also; We don't need proof to warn people. It is up to you and everyone else if you want to believe us or not.
I would question the word solid as no evidence of the scam was presented to the public in a cohesive manner yet. There was sockpuppeting, yes, but no evidence that either character committed a scam, at least, since this began on page 97 of this thread.

Lyn did, however, present the evidence of the Sakurako scam previously, that is on page 87 of this thread - that, added with the evidence given by Shanni, implies he or she is a scammer indeed. This evidence was not presented, as far as I know, in the last accusation (at page 97), therefore, predisposing other readers to confusion. I only know about that because I bothered to search around for this evidence.

Regarding the "trust if you want" argument, I will point that, as a neutral party, that the fact that the proof was seen by two or three well trusted players help a lot, but having seen more than enough of similar instances happening at Wikipedia (sometimes, with the so called accused party or parties being innocent after all) that this sort of argument is not enough - either solid evidence or arguments are presented or I assume the involved players are just flaming, independently of how much rep the involved players have.
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Last edited by Recette; 12-06-2011 at 03:07 PM.
 
12-06-2011   #1965 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnaJessica
I would question the word solid as no evidence of the scam was presented to the public in a cohesive manner yet. There was sockpuppeting, yes, but no evidence that either character committed a scam, at least, since this began on page 97 of this thread.
Ana, I don't want to come across as biased because this involves me, but... how is the word of a moderator not "solid" evidence? Is Swagg any less of a scammer now just because the evidence that convicts him is given by a person other than myself? The bolded part just doesn't make any sense. You pointed out that I've already presented evidence of the scam as taken place back then (with "Mayziee") which everybody accepts, and now we're trying to link his new character Swagg to his old ones, which people do in this thread all the time. Most scammers ditch their old characters once they've been ratted out. Of course there is no evidence that "Swagg" himself scammed anything, because that's the new character they made to replace the one they DID use to scam me! I don't really understand your logic there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnaJessica
Lyn did, however, present the evidence of the Sakurako scam previously, that is on page 87 of this thread - that, added with the evidence given by Shanni, implies he or she is a scammer indeed. This evidence was not presented, as far as I know, in the last accusation (at page 97), therefore, predisposing other readers to confusion. I only know about that because I bothered to search around for this evidence.
It doesn't imply anything, it proves that Swagg is the same person as Mayzie, and Mayzie scammed me, therefore Swagg is the scammer, too. We already mentioned that the proof we had can't be posted on these forums or else it would constitute rule breaking. People need to read between the lines and think about what that might mean...

Quote:
Regarding the "trust if you want" argument, I will point that, as a neutral party, that the fact that the proof was seen by two or three well trusted players help a lot, but having seen more than enough of similar instances happening at Wikipedia (sometimes, with the so called accused party or parties being innocent after all) that this sort of argument is not enough - either solid evidence or arguments are presented or I assume the involved players are just flaming, independently of how much rep the involved players have.
The "trust as you want" argument was never an argument at all to help our case. We simply state that people have the freedom to not believe anything, and they are totally free to not trust what we say, or believe that Swagg didn't scam. Totally up to you. And you guys most likely won't mind, because as he said, he hasn't scammed since and apparently has no intention of doing so. But wherever he pops up again in the future, maybe with a new identity, and scams one of the doubters, I'll be here to say to that person: "I told you so."

Last edited by Aria; 12-06-2011 at 03:43 PM.
 
12-06-2011   #1966 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyn
Ana, I don't want to come across as biased because this involves me, but... how is the word of a moderator not "solid" evidence? Is Swagg any less of a scammer now just because the evidence that convicts him is given by a person other than myself? The bolded part just doesn't make any sense. You pointed out that I've already presented evidence of the scam as taken place back then (with "Mayziee") which everybody accepts, and now we're trying to link his new character Swagg to his old ones, which people do in this thread all the time. Most scammers ditch their old characters once they've been ratted out. Of course there is no evidence that "Swagg" himself scammed anything, because that's the new character they made to replace the one they DID use to scam me! I don't really understand your logic there.
That argument was dealt with in my 2nd paragraph. I could not conclude anything until I found the evidence in page 87, which I did not know and was not presented when all this started at page 97.

It doesn't imply anything, it proves that Swagg is the same person as Mayzie, and Mayzie scammed me, therefore Swagg is the scammer, too. We already mentioned that the proof we had can't be posted on these forums or else it would constitute rule breaking. People need to read between the lines and think about what that might mean...

It has the same meaning - the meaning of "imply" an online dictionary: "To involve by logical necessity". Therefore, "imply" has the same meaning has to proof, which I meant in the first place.

The "trust as you want" argument was never an argument at all to help our case. We simply state that people have the freedom to not believe anything, and they are totally free to not trust what we say, or believe that Swagg didn't scam. Totally up to you. And you guys most likely won't mind, because as he said, he hasn't scammed since and apparently has no intention of doing so. But wherever he pops up again in the future, maybe with a new identity, and scams one of the doubters, I'll be here to say to that person: "I told you so."


Maybe not but the way it was presented sounded like it to me. Of course, I have been doing PF only lately so the latter above is not a concern for me, but for anyone else use your discretion when PF/GF with everyone, as the risk is always there with anyone, besides, that is why the market in this forum and iTrader do exist.
Answers in bold and underline above.
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Last edited by Recette; 12-06-2011 at 04:23 PM.
 
12-06-2011   #1967 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnaJessica
That argument was dealt with in my 2nd paragraph. I could not conclude anything until I found the evidence in page 87, which I did not know and was not presented when all this started at page 97.
Oh, I see. When Atmosphere said "solid", I think he was referring to Shanni's post, not to the whole debate. As far as that proof is concerned, it's solid as can be. Before her post, I didn't expect anyone to conclude our speculations as solid proof. In fact, I quite openly stated that I was withholding the proof, so there was no proof here for people to see.

Oh well. I think you misunderstood Atmosphere's post.
 
12-06-2011   #1968 (permalink)
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wow all these shitheads popping up again and again, and with new ggftw accounts and characters too

so much effort

and swagface, if you really got the hairpin from boxes long ago, can you tell me the name of the box? if you're a new player then obviously you didn't get it from ms since the hat's ancient

we not dumb bro gtfo

Last edited by Kirks; 12-06-2011 at 08:00 PM.
 
12-06-2011   #1969 (permalink)
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One question: What rule would you be violating to post this proof?

It really can't be that bad, can it?
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12-06-2011   #1970 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sven
wow all these shitheads popping up again and again, and with new ggftw accounts and characters too

so much effort
I agree. It's extremely irritating to know that some individuals dedicate their time to earning trust from other players just to scam them later.

Also, some tips for anyone reading this post:

-Do not lend valuable fuses or weapons to anyone unless you personally know them or they have a ggftw account with relatively high itrader that you can trust. It has to be a one-for-one (that is, they lose their hard-earned reputation on here should they decide to scam you).

-If you can't instinctively trust them, then don't lend. Do not let the other person coerce you into lending. If they pester you about it, then you should have little reason to trust them at all as they will likely steal the item.

-Always take a screenshot when you decide to lend a valuable item so that you have proof to post later.

While these tips don't completely guarantee that you will not get scammed, they do greatly reduce the likeliness that you will.

I apologize if this is the wrong place to post the above tips. I'll make a new thread if necessary.
 
12-07-2011   #1971 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicianHana
One question: What rule would you be violating to post this proof?

It really can't be that bad, can it?
I'm sure people are curious about this, but unfortunately, we'd rather not say. But what we will say; is that other than Lyn and myself, there is only one other person that knows - none of the Exitium members had anything to do with it, as Swagg and others may think.

Spoiler!


With that said; we'd rather the topic be dropped now, since a moderator already connected Swagg to more than one other account - which have indeed scammed, and the proof of that was already posted by Lyn a long time ago.

@AnaJessica; All I'll say to you is that the proof posted on page 87 was not presented as it did not need to be. It would have been utterly worthless before Shanni! posted, as you and others could have, and probably would have, taken it as we were just accusing Swagg without any proof that connects him to Mayzie.
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Last edited by R; 12-07-2011 at 12:54 AM.
 
12-07-2011   #1972 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eien

@AnaJessica; All I'll say to you is that the proof posted on page 87 was not presented as it did not need to be. It would have been utterly worthless before Shanni! posted, as you and others could have, and probably would have, taken it as we were just accusing Swagg without any proof that connects him to Mayzie.
That proof was not mentioned after Shanni stated the IPs were the same, so the only thing I knew conclusively then is that he or she had a bunch of sockpuppets here and nothing else.

Regarding the latter part, that could be easy to imply here (these forums are small, after all), but that is not always the case, here or other discussion forums, unfortunately. In a larger forum it could be very difficult for third parties to find anything that is buried somewhere in some page of the website after all.
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12-07-2011   #1973 (permalink)
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Idk if its a scam or anything, but I would like to make my self clear on any "services" that I have rendered.

My mistake on not having ss the last plv session I had, what we talked about,
if i only knew I wouldnt get paid right away. I trusted this person since I already plv her [dual with another sheep] and she paid what has been talked about.

The recent one, was last saturday. I did a 3 hr session with her, but on the last
hr of the booster, I had to stop and cook for my family. At that time she said she will be afk or something, coz she will be with her grandmother. So i said its fine, and told her that i have to stop and cook, and will just come back to plv whenever Im finished, regardless of the booster time [done or not].

So basically in my clock, I did finish the 3 hr booster [ minus 45-1hr due to cooking ] and I stayed and plv for another 2 hrs, since i saw my base level was nearly gonna level. Gained her 2 levels [from 230 to 232] in that 4 hours. [Horible plv eh? Wasnt really my kind of business, but since she encouraged me to try the last time and told me "I was faster that her previous plv", I did it again but this time, SOLO]

When she came back, I reported what had happened when she was away. I said that in the last hr of the booster I went out to cook and stayed an extra 2 hrs. I also told her that there was another buff plv some characters in the area, so I had to share. It wasn't in my attitude to to ask, but I waited for her to give me the payment after the session. But she said she had to go and will just pay me next time. Trustworthy enough with our previous transactions, I said sure, but please do take note of the plvl hrs. And she agreed. [Again, my mistake of not taking screenshot our conversation about the payment, issue of trustworthiness again]

So it has been a couple of days now, Thursday in my timezone, that I've decided to ask her regarding the payment. Then she replied she totally forgot about me already, asked again how many hrs did I plv. then I retold her the whole thing. And then it started. she said she doesn't remember me plvling her for 4 hours, but only 2. Jeeze. Again i retold what I remembered that has happened, but she said she doesn't remember anything like what I've said.

And then called me a LIAR.

Never in my whole 5 years of playing Trickster that I have encountered any player telling me that. She's the first.

I demanded what I know was due for me, but instead she dealt me 1 galder. She told me that's what I deserve for being a LIAR.

Now who would in their right mind would waste their time and effort if they only knew something like this would happen.

So i told her, just pay up on whatever hours "you thought" I did just to be over with. I don't want to waste my time on a kid who doesn't value another person's time and effort.

So she ended up paying me 200m for the 2 hrs [since her rate was 100m/hr] just to get over with.

Lesson learned now.
Never trust too much on a person you just knew.
After every session of the plv, PAY UP so you wouldn't FORGET what had just happened. [not like I'm going in that plv thing again >.> might as well work on my friend's characters and help them.]

Sorry but I had to bring this up here, I've had transactions with some of you whom I'm not really close with. I'm not know in Trickster like some of you, but I don't want to be branded as LIAR or SCAMMER. I was playing quietly, buying and selling stuffs to people, till this night's incident happen.

Who was the person I rendered my services to?
FoxieGodness / SoulSheep
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12-07-2011   #1974 (permalink)
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Sorry that that happened... I wouldn't have trusted her, she has one negative itrader.. Even if it is for selling an item that was reserved, I wouldn't trust them. >: At least she paid for part of it.

That's not right calling you a liar though, you're a known player on gg, with good itrader. >: Should have done pay first. Especially with someone you don't really know and who has a lower itrader.
 
12-07-2011   #1975 (permalink)
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That is why I always do the counting myself when power leveling. I clearly state the time we began and the time we finished, and count the time to the minute, so we do not have any problems.

I would also add to your list to never power level someone by time whenever he or she is without a booster, doing that is unreasonable and is asking for trouble for sure - I would ask the money for the extra 2 levels, but the payment by level - as the person can later complain that he or she could have put in a booster, etc. Think about it, it could have been 6+ levels during that time, not 2, right?
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12-07-2011   #1976 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mionette
Who was the person I rendered my services to?
FoxieGodness / SoulSheep
This person is in my guild? Do I have a reason to be worried?

@Lyn down there

Nuh uh I'm not the guild master '-' But I'll tell Jess when he comes back from whatever crazy adventure he is on.

EDIT: Nvm about this, I'm not involved.
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Last edited by Sakurawrz; 12-07-2011 at 03:39 PM.
 
12-07-2011   #1977 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakuraHarunoHara
This person is in my guild? Do I have a reason to be worried?
Are you the guild master? If not, I'd inform them if I were you. No guild should have to tolerate scammers with an unpleasant attitude to boot.
 
12-07-2011   #1978 (permalink)
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Heard they were a scammer in-game before they came onto ggftw a few weeks ago to sell stuff.
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12-07-2011   #1979 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mionette
Idk if its a scam or anything, but I would like to make my self clear on any "services" that I have rendered.

My mistake on not having ss the last plv session I had, what we talked about,
if i only knew I wouldnt get paid right away. I trusted this person since I already plv her [dual with another sheep] and she paid what has been talked about.

The recent one, was last saturday. I did a 3 hr session with her, but on the last
hr of the booster, I had to stop and cook for my family. At that time she said she will be afk or something, coz she will be with her grandmother. So i said its fine, and told her that i have to stop and cook, and will just come back to plv whenever Im finished, regardless of the booster time [done or not].

So basically in my clock, I did finish the 3 hr booster [ minus 45-1hr due to cooking ] and I stayed and plv for another 2 hrs, since i saw my base level was nearly gonna level. Gained her 2 levels [from 230 to 232] in that 4 hours. [Horible plv eh? Wasnt really my kind of business, but since she encouraged me to try the last time and told me "I was faster that her previous plv", I did it again but this time, SOLO]

When she came back, I reported what had happened when she was away. I said that in the last hr of the booster I went out to cook and stayed an extra 2 hrs. I also told her that there was another buff plv some characters in the area, so I had to share. It wasn't in my attitude to to ask, but I waited for her to give me the payment after the session. But she said she had to go and will just pay me next time. Trustworthy enough with our previous transactions, I said sure, but please do take note of the plvl hrs. And she agreed. [Again, my mistake of not taking screenshot our conversation about the payment, issue of trustworthiness again]

So it has been a couple of days now, Thursday in my timezone, that I've decided to ask her regarding the payment. Then she replied she totally forgot about me already, asked again how many hrs did I plv. then I retold her the whole thing. And then it started. she said she doesn't remember me plvling her for 4 hours, but only 2. Jeeze. Again i retold what I remembered that has happened, but she said she doesn't remember anything like what I've said.

And then called me a LIAR.

Never in my whole 5 years of playing Trickster that I have encountered any player telling me that. She's the first.

I demanded what I know was due for me, but instead she dealt me 1 galder. She told me that's what I deserve for being a LIAR.

Now who would in their right mind would waste their time and effort if they only knew something like this would happen.

So i told her, just pay up on whatever hours "you thought" I did just to be over with. I don't want to waste my time on a kid who doesn't value another person's time and effort.

So she ended up paying me 200m for the 2 hrs [since her rate was 100m/hr] just to get over with.

Lesson learned now.
Never trust too much on a person you just knew.
After every session of the plv, PAY UP so you wouldn't FORGET what had just happened. [not like I'm going in that plv thing again >.> might as well work on my friend's characters and help them.]

Sorry but I had to bring this up here, I've had transactions with some of you whom I'm not really close with. I'm not know in Trickster like some of you, but I don't want to be branded as LIAR or SCAMMER. I was playing quietly, buying and selling stuffs to people, till this night's incident happen.

Who was the person I rendered my services to?
FoxieGodness / SoulSheep
Why would I even try to scam you while I pay you "half" of the money that I "owe" you?
Nice, you plvled me for 2 hours with a booster, Why in the world would u plvl me for another 2 hours when I don't have any booster on.. that doesn't make sense.
Just to mention, in those "4" hours she ended up getting me from 230-232, so.. nice.

It just doesn't make sense at all, plvling me for an "extra" 2 hours when I don't use a booster and I'M AWAY. so I couldn't even say anything !
yeah well.. fine, nice. /facepalm.

Last edited by RealMadrid; 12-07-2011 at 03:35 PM.
 
12-07-2011   #1980 (permalink)
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She told you she would continue to level you until you were back. You agreed.
She even told you after you were back, what exactly happened, and how many hours she did, so on.. You agreed to that, too.
But... I'm curious about this, if you only remembered that she did 2 hours, but the original agreement was 3, wouldn't you have paid for 3? Not just 2?
 

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