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09-13-2011   #1 (permalink)
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Default How would you improve bossing?

IMO, bossing is really crappy, boring, tedious, and ludicrous at this point.
And actually, I'm fairly certain that many people share my opinion, which I don't believe should be the case.

So I'm curious.

What would you change about the current system to thoroughly balance bossing and make it more enjoyable at the same time?
(Or do you believe that bossing shouldn't necessarily be enjoyable, and that the enjoyment should stem from what is earned from overcoming tedium?)


Questions off the top of my head:

1. Do you like our current bossing system?
2. Which aspects of current bossing
/others'/my suggestions do you agree with? Which do you disagree with?
3. What would you change about bossing?
4. What do you think bossing should be / the purpose of bossing is?
5. Most importantly, why?
(6. What kind of boss would you like to see, if they released a new one?)


A couple of points to consider:

- Is your preference to bossing enough of a challenge?
- Unfunded/myshop'd characters versus nonfunded characters.
- Rarity, strength, and actual uniqueness of Unique equipment-- currently and ideally.
- How the changes would affect overall game play/difficulty.




These would be my personal changes:

Spoiler!


Maybe this belongs in general discussion. ;;
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Last edited by MidnightSnack; 09-13-2011 at 09:39 PM.
 
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09-13-2011   #2 (permalink)
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Default

1. Do you like our current bossing system?

I'm so-so with that. Been a long Blood-hunter and I want to rack up the rankings while dreaming of vending that Blood Sword. (Yes I go to Blood for vending purposes, haha!)

2. Which aspects of current bossing/others'/my suggestions do you agree with? Which do you disagree with?

I'm not really sure what I agree or disagree, but SGI is very nice to make equips tradable for those who do not use MyShop. The downside is that they are expensive.... Hence why I prefer to look good while fighting via Cash Equips.

The Trials serves as a RPG aspect, giving the boss a bit more characteristic with the trials set up as the current story (while the accessory quests supports the backstory/flashback...) There can be a way to improove it, but I think it was also invented to carry more of the adventure feel. Like for Blood, you want to meet him, but in order to do that, you need to do the 4 trials to test your blood and see if you are worthy for Blood's dinner!

Since the current bosses have high drop rate for Uniques, I would wish to decrease the cool time for re-entering the trials or no cool time at all, since each trial may take 15 minutes (more or less).

3. What would you change about bossing?

a. Make me change the image of these equips so I can use a Soki Shield with the image of the Forever Shield! (And same for Staff)
b. This may sound unbalacing, but thanks to the high drop rate and the time it took to go through these "tests", at least reduce or even kill the cool time from the Boss-Gate NPC!
c. Just.. Don't make the trial mobs stronger than the boss as it is. Not all characters have good defense.
d. I have nothing else since i'm a pretty content Blood hunter.


4. What do you think bossing should be / the purpose of bossing is?

It's an extra feature to kill time or do something else as a fellow Trickster hero/heroine. It's not part of the "main story" (episode quests), but bosses to help cover the story for the location you're standing at. (Rose Garden = Blood, Odniea = Snow Hill (and Rose Garden), etc.)

Also, they do help kill the boredom if you are already done with "this quest" or "that quest" and you want to smash things. But remember: Bosses aren't nice, hence why they have trials. They are here to troll you.

5. Most importantly, why?

I'm more annoyed that people do not like the current system. I'm okay with it. If SGI felt like changing the system a bit, it would be the small features like the cool rate. Like Uniques: They are meant to be rare and valuable, so we can't argue to them about that.

(6. What kind of boss would you like to see, if they released a new one?)

Besides the new boss kTO mentions for Alteo Empire, there's this "jelly fish" monster the Jelly Clan needs to defend/defeat and Reina NPC is just standing there thinking about that monster...

I want to create my own boss stage with a more humanoid boss (like Karan), daydreaming of the "Golden Witch" dropping the Bunny habits and just use magic all the way! *Crackles*

Yea. I can't think much.
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09-13-2011   #3 (permalink)
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1. Do you like our current bossing system?
I really don't like much about it at all. Explained in #2.

2. Which aspects of current bossing/others'/my suggestions do you agree with? Which do you disagree with?
Bosses go down too easily with the right "strategy". Their accuracy is pathetic, but their damage is ridiculous. Most of the time their summons are more accurate and do more damage that the boss does. Bosses don't last long enough against higher leveled/statted characters. The trials are too exhaustive.

3. What would you change about bossing?
- Scale bosses somehow. Perhaps increase their HP by an amount quite a bit higher than how much damage the strongest player's strongest skill (in the room) can do in 1 hit. Making 1HKOing bosses impossible. Or making them tougher when fought by a party, but with higher drop rates.
- Lower boss damage by a bit, increase their accuracy by a lot.
- Weaken the summons by a bit, they're supposed to be a nuisance not a diabolical threat.
- For the class types that have too much trouble in the last bars of HP on a boss, or when a boss absorbs the only kind of damage you can deal; give bosses a powerful "ultimate move", in which their resistances are greatly dropped for a limited time afterwards.
- Shorten trials, we already have to wait a time limit between defeating a boss and starting the trials again.

4. What do you think bossing should be / the purpose of bossing is?
5. Most importantly, why?

I think it should be a team effort. I think of the trials (sometimes) as the dungeon, and the boss is the finale compared to other MMORPGs. There is practically no team effort in Trickster anymore. I think bossing shouldn't be impossible to solo, but it should be hard enough to encourage players to team up. Perhaps the boss getting drastically more powerful/time consuming depending on the party size/type and having a higher drop rate for uniques if taken down by let's say, a full Royal or full Special party.

6. What kind of boss would you like to see, if they released a new one?
I would like to see Chronos as an actual boss to fight. Possibly Abyss? But not as a normal boss, make it nearly impossible boss to take down. Not because of it 1HKOing you or it regenerating health... but it having an ungodly amount of HP. Like in the billions. Also multiple "forms" depending on how much of the massive amount of HP is left.

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Last edited by KahruNYA; 09-13-2011 at 10:54 PM.
 
09-13-2011   #4 (permalink)
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Default

1.
meh, I'm ok with it. I wish there was more of a purpose to kill the bosses, once you have the boss sets, the bosses themselves are kinda useless.

2.
Will you people stop suggesting to abolish the trials, without them all bosses are monsters with 5 HP bars. The trials make bosses something more, there are tweaks that can be done to them.

Also if you want the trials removed, then explain to me how you would remake tombeth, soki, and queen's set accessory quests. for example where would you put santa so that he is still imprisoned by the queen? Where would you put the queen odinea NPC?

3.
I gave these suggestions about a year ago and I still stand by them:
A. A break room in between the boss and the trials that you go to after killing the boss, so you only have to redo the trials if you die or leave the boss.
B. Witch Brooms for every actual boss, and a way to get an infinite supply of them. Either by a daily/infinite repeats quest, or the boss it's self drops them.
pre-revo jTO there were 3 boss witch brooms(and 1 for mermaid field 1).
the coffin witch broom - for count
the spicy witch broom - for spicy
and the predator witch broom - for predator (it now drops you at gate of mermaid dungeon)
why not make more?

4.
I'm not really sure, but I'd like it to be more then it is with out back pedaling to what it was.

5.
the old boss system sucked as it was a giant KS fest. and before individual boss trials it was a race that could get very depressing, very fast. I find what they have done is an improvement, and I think they can do more if they choose to continue to focus on improvements and not roll-backs.

6.
Hmm, I think only real regions should get bosses, and I judge a real are by it having a key quest. So that said I see:

Poppuri dungeon: give it like a grumpy raging poppuri that was woken up and is pissed over it.

Mermaid: I'm still in the "pred's witch broom take you to mermaid so pred should be the boss of mermaid" group.

Abyss: it has stickers but no key quest yet, give it a key quest and we'll talk bosses.

Last edited by kale15; 09-14-2011 at 12:36 AM.
 
09-13-2011   #5 (permalink)
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I'm very half & half about the bossing system.
I LOVE that you have your own boss, but I despise trials with a passion.

I think the bosses are plenty enough a challenge, but I do think they should change a few of them up. Some bosses are impossible for certain chars to kill.. Soki for example, it's WAY too hard to kill him on a fox.

My suggestion is.. If there's going to be trials, make them worth it.

Give us more than one boss (not at a time, one after another, 5 total maybe?)

After you kill one boss, another spawn in 30 seconds until 5 have spawned, THEN the boss room "crumble".

That's why I hate trials, they are so boring and uninteresting that honestly I rarely boss hunt. They seem to last forever only to be able to have fun fighting the boss for a good.. 20 seconds?

I agree with Kale; Trials are there for a reason.. The KS fest was ridiculous, and the accessory quests are... a must have.
But like I said..trials are too much work for 20 seconds of fun.
If they were to give you 5 bosses though, they'd have to make the drop rate even lower of course.. But I wouldn't mind.. I boss hunt for the fun, not for the drops.

And for the people who do hunt for the drops, they'd have to make the amount of bosses you get compensate for the lower drop rate so it's basically the same chance of a drop as it is right now.

Last edited by YenSai; 09-13-2011 at 11:05 PM.
 
09-14-2011   #6 (permalink)
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How to improve bossing? Make some challenging coop boss hunting quests that shares the profit equally to all players that participated.

And yeah, actually you can't call it boss "hunting" now, because most bosses are just too easy to kill nowadays. (i luff u pre revo boss smackdown)
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09-14-2011   #7 (permalink)
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Make the boss trials a one time thing, with an option of repeating them if you wanted to.

Second, have a cooldown timer for instanced bosses, so people can't farm one boss all the time. Unless...

There's a cooldown timer for each different party as well. This means that boss hunts with a guild or group would be beneficial. Having 10+ party combinations with a group of 6 people encourages people to work together.

Lastly, have the option of stat-scaled bosses (no timer). This allows MyShop / Non-MyShop players an equal opportunity for loot. Since MS needs an incentive as well, boss stat scaling with MS items would be 80% of total instead of 100% with base stats and normal equip.

This would also allow for multiple difficulty settings too, which could benefit item hunters. For example, with a tiered system, you could have:

Normal: 100% Scaling / Normal Drop Rate
Challenge: 125% Scaling / +10% Drop Rate
Hard Mode: 150% Scaling / +25% Drop Rate
Intense: 175% Scaling / +50% Drop Rate - Bosses now spam skills and minions more often, have new skills. Upgraded Gold Boss Badge earned upon victory.
Nightmare: 200% Scaling / +75% Drop Rate - Same as intense, but three bosses spawn at once per player in the room. Ultimate Gold Boss Badge earned on victory.

This would allow those without any boss items to actually have a fighting chance against some of the bosses, and leave the difficulty intact for those who have whole sets already. It could also remove the level caps, so a lvl 400 player could fight a lvl 400 Pharaoh. MS would have a slight advantage, but it would not be as game breaking as it is now.
 
09-16-2011   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorpalbunny
nightmare: 200% scaling / +75% drop rate - same as intense, but three bosses spawn at once per player in the room. Ultimate gold boss badge earned on victory.
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09-16-2011   #9 (permalink)
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1. Do you like our current bossing system?
Yes. I don't mind the trials. I don't find it at all "really crappy, boring, tedious and ludicrous." I think bossing is a lot of fun.

2. Which aspects of current bossing/others'/my suggestions do you agree with? Which do you disagree with?
I cringe every time I see someone suggest bossing should be a team effort, I like Trickster because I can do everything on my own, I don't need anyone else to have fun. I like Kale's idea, too. "A break room in between the boss and the trials that you go to after killing the boss, so you only have to redo the trials if you die or leave the boss."

3. What would you change about bossing?
Brooms to every boss, I don't see why the boss with the easiest trials has the only port. :v Also like Kale said, it would be pretty cool to see a boss drop a port to themself.

4. What do you think bossing should be / the purpose of bossing is?
.. to get their uniques? to have fun doing so?

5. Most importantly, why?
why else

6. What kind of boss would you like to see, if they released a new one?
An Abyss boss, spawns of zerking Skelefish everywhere
 
09-16-2011   #10 (permalink)
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12-04-2011   #11 (permalink)
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1. Do you like our current bossing system?
I guess it's ok. Some trials can be boring, but c'mon, it can't be all fun :L.
2. Which aspects of current bossing/others'/my suggestions do you agree with? Which do you disagree with?

I disagree with 'no trade-able boss equipment'. If we do this, there will be barely good beginners equip. When I started T.O., with no one to help me or explain me some stuff, it's hard I tell you. I guess everyone here who didn't use myshop from the very first point agrees with me. If we would make the boss equipment untradeable then there would be only MyShop left as solution to have good equipment. And we don't want Trickster to depend only on myshop, am I right?

Boss equipment fuse-able. No. Never. Are you mad? This will be the end of Trickster. A 1b soki shield > fused with some oh so nice fuse > 20b soki shield. You don't want this to happen right? Players will go mad, prices will rise and rise.

No trials. Look, that would make bossing too easy. Boss trials are made to test if youre strong enough. Besides, there always has to be something boring right?

3. What would you change about bossing?
I wouldn't change anything for now. But i'd like to add boss eq. to Spicy :3.

4. What do you think bossing should be / the purpose of bossing is?
Bossing = Get good equip and seals. What else? :L

5. Most importantly, why?
I'll skip this.

6. What kind of boss would you like to see, if they released a new one?
It's just an idea but.. it woud be nice if they made this thing where you can beat Trickster npc's.
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12-04-2011   #12 (permalink)
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One thing I really hate about the trials, especially Blood.
When you miss click... you know when clicking too fast at NPC dialog. You can get sent out after one single miss click. There should be something to confirm like "do you really want to leave this place?" / "are you sure?". Instead just bye bye *kicked out*.
 
12-04-2011   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny
One thing I really hate about the trials, especially Blood.
When you miss click... you know when clicking too fast at NPC dialog. You can get sent out after one single miss click. There should be something to confirm like "do you really want to leave this place?" / "are you sure?". Instead just bye bye *kicked out*.
I hate that as well, however, that glitch does not occur at all in Tenter - the trials I am most used to - and maybe other trials as well.
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12-04-2011   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnaJessica
I hate that as well, however, that glitch does not occur at all in Tenter - the trials I am most used to - and maybe other trials as well.
It isn't a glitch. I was speaking of miss click n picking the wrong option. Such as at the sudoku, if you choose answer right away, you're doomed. x.x

(There was one time I miss clicked on that and got sent out, the 2nd time I was there I miss clicked on another thing and got sent out again. c.c)
 
12-04-2011   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlyDreams
Boss equipment fuse-able. No. Never. Are you mad? This will be the end of Trickster. A 1b soki shield > fused with some oh so nice fuse > 20b soki shield. You don't want this to happen right? Players will go mad, prices will rise and rise.
I don't see why you wouldn't want boss EQ fuseable O_o some of them like Soki and Tut are hideous.. positive for everyone. It's not gonna hurt the economy because there is a de-fuse function now before selling off these things
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12-05-2011   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vixen
I don't see why you wouldn't want boss EQ fuseable O_o some of them like Soki and Tut are hideous.. positive for everyone. It's not gonna hurt the economy because there is a de-fuse function now before selling off these things
There may be a de-fuse system, but people won't sell their boss equipment without a fuse lol. To de-fuse it it costs already a flame if i'm right. Then, why would they sell it without a fuse if it's worth more with one?:')
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12-05-2011   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlyDreams
1. Do you like our current bossing system?
I guess it's ok. Some trials can be boring, but c'mon, it can't be all fun :L.
2. Which aspects of current bossing/others'/my suggestions do you agree with? Which do you disagree with?

I disagree with 'no trade-able boss equipment'. If we do this, there will be barely good beginners equip. When I started T.O., with no one to help me or explain me some stuff, it's hard I tell you. I guess everyone here who didn't use myshop from the very first point agrees with me. If we would make the boss equipment untradeable then there would be only MyShop left as solution to have good equipment. And we don't want Trickster to depend only on myshop, am I right?

Boss equipment fuse-able. No. Never. Are you mad? This will be the end of Trickster. A 1b soki shield > fused with some oh so nice fuse > 20b soki shield. You don't want this to happen right? Players will go mad, prices will rise and rise. and i like the look of uniques they supposed to be unique looking x3

No trials. Look, that would make bossing too easy. Boss trials are made to test if youre strong enough. Besides, there always has to be something boring right?

3. What would you change about bossing?
I wouldn't change anything for now. But i'd like to add boss eq. to Spicy :3.

4. What do you think bossing should be / the purpose of bossing is?
Bossing = Get good equip and seals. What else? :L

5. Most importantly, why?
I'll skip this.

6. What kind of boss would you like to see, if they released a new one?
Abyss Boss =D
same thoughts like shirley xD just 2 things added blue colored
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12-05-2011   #18 (permalink)
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1. Do you like our current bossing system?
Not at all. Only reason I don't is mostly because of the trials...

2. Which aspects of current bossing/others'/my suggestions do you agree with? Which do you disagree with?
No trials I agree with, but I think there should be one room for/the party and then when you kill the one boss you have to wait to get in again (set time for certain bosses).
I don't really agree with not being able to trade the drops, but if something like this did exist I think using eggs or something of the similar sort to trade would be good.

3. What would you change about bossing?
-Get rid of the trials! Or, at least, shorten them to killing a few things or passing in an item or two. If that can't be done, then the really rediculous trials should be changed/removed.. like the trial at the end of Count. There's been times where I'll have to re-try 5 times in one night and the 6th time I fail and it become morning... no count for me.
-Slightly better drop rate on unique equips? Maybe I would take into account the idea of not being able to trade them if this was the case. Then, you would have to work for them yourself. Thing is, over the years I've found players becoming lazier and lazier with everything.. they just want to buy the awesome equipment and not work for it.


4. What do you think bossing should be / the purpose of bossing is?

I think it should be fun, somewhat of a challenge (a lot of the time my characters have no problem killing a boss since they're packed with MS equipment) where you can be rewarded in the end.

5. Most importantly, why?
Mostly because games should be aiming towards being fun... when bossing feels more like a chore where you only have a slight chance of actually being rewarding for going through with all the annoying trials.

(6. What kind of boss would you like to see, if they released a new one?)
Maybe an Abyss fish creature?
Not so much a new boss, but maybe a Spicy set...
 
12-05-2011   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlyDreams
There may be a de-fuse system, but people won't sell their boss equipment without a fuse lol. To de-fuse it it costs already a flame if i'm right. Then, why would they sell it without a fuse if it's worth more with one?:')
Who would buy a good EQ if it has a fuse they don't want to/can't pay extra for? It's not like it'll be the only one in the world, opportunities come around

Flames are so easy to get, I've got stacks of them from Poppuri and log-in events
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12-05-2011   #20 (permalink)
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One thing that I hate is the element of the boss equipment. I know you can't avoid it (queen, ice = water), but it's bad for those who rely on elements (e.g. gladiators or duelists). I have to try to go from a tenter spear to an ice axe (no one wants to sell those) just to get water (instead of electricity, which is useless).

Why is inferno the only element that's easy to get? (I hate inferno blade)
More 4g5's with elements. More boss uniques with more options for different elements. Why can't Soki be fire or soil? Why can't Tenter be soil or electricity?

Trials are ok, but I totally agree with Penny. Misclicking or having "cancel" options really sucks. Dialogue is such a drag and hindrance. It's too tedious!
 

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