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08-26-2011   #1 (permalink)
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Default Momi Balances Trickster~!

It's a Friday night (11:35 PM in Missouri) and since I have no social life, I have decided to hide in my dorm and be bored. The result of the boredom? I feel like making my own personal opinions on how to "fix" Trickster.

NOTE:
These are not actual changes to be applied to Trickster, unless I actually can see the future which I doubt. Most of these are largely skill changes geared towards PvM and PvBoss that I feel should be changed. May include some random new skills or skill suggestions because I can.

General
Spoiler!


Power Types
Spoiler!


Magic Types
Spoiler!


Sense Types
Spoiler!


Charm Types
Spoiler!

I think that's good enough to start with.

Last edited by Tardar; 05-17-2012 at 11:04 PM. Reason: more changes!
 
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08-26-2011   #2 (permalink)
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I have more suggestions to balance out the Magic-types.

Solution 1: Shield of Heaven should be another MD/DP buff, just like you said. At the same time, Elemental Shields should be exclusive to Soul Masters and function in the same way Light Shield/SoH do. That way, both Pure and Hybrid get two MD/DP buffs.

Solution 2: Summon Boulder should at least do the same damage Drip Bomb does. This won't be so crazy considering that right now, Earth only has two "useable" skills in the form of Earthquake and Cleaving Terra. Deadly Fen becoming an Earth counterpart of Scorching Earth is not a bad idea either.

Solution 3: I know you've said this before, but HOW ABOUT REMOVING AC FROM THE FORMULA OF RAZOR GALE AND THE BLESSINGS? Wind is already as supportive of an element as it can be, why not give it a powerful skill that's single target for a change? They already have Razor Gale, all they have to do is revamp it. Making it as strong as Incinerate won't be so bad, as long as it's not up par with Dragon Storm.

Solution 4: Fix Light Wave. Srsly. The skill could be fantastic if the AoE were fixed because it already deals higher damage than Radiant Strike. Also, move it to Priest. Hybrid Light Mages already get tons of AoEs, so it won't be unfair that they move this skill to Pure.

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08-27-2011   #3 (permalink)
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Counterpunch+FlashCut I couldn't agree more
However I don't see how Tetra is considered THAT overkill for bosses, normal mobs yes, but it still takes me like 3 tetras to kill count blood :/
 
08-27-2011   #4 (permalink)
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May I add a few of my insights based on the characters I'm most familiar with? + 3+
No? Well too bad. :L And I'll be stealing your layout as well.

Magic types
Spoiler!


Charm Types
Spoiler!


Sense Types
Spoiler!


Quote:
Originally Posted by FruitTingles
Counterpunch+FlashCut I couldn't agree more
However I don't see how Tetra is considered THAT overkill for bosses, normal mobs yes, but it still takes me like 3 tetras to kill count blood :/
It takes me 50+ hits at lv 217 with every equipment being Myshop & a p. stick to make a dent on him. Fire/elec/dark, here. Granted I'm not haxed out, but do you see the problem here?
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08-27-2011   #5 (permalink)
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All very good ideas~!

For Sheep:

Blessings:
Spoiler!


Area Resistance Spells:
Spoiler!


Spoiler!


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08-27-2011   #6 (permalink)
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To everyone: Post suggestions if you want. This isn't a me-only thread, I'll gladly read what other people think, maybe I'd even use one of your ideas!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdra04
Solution 1: Shield of Heaven should be another MD/DP buff, just like you said. At the same time, Elemental Shields should be exclusive to Soul Masters and function in the same way Light Shield/SoH do. That way, both Pure and Hybrid get two MD/DP buffs.
I think if it was also another MD/DP buff, I think I would also maybe halve the buff from Light Shield and add it to SoH. My biggest beef with Light magics is how tanky they are with just two skills. I'm not sure how well it'd turn out with them both being defensive buffs, but I'm naturally open to it.

I definitely do agree that the Elemental Shields need more than just an elemental resist, especially given the fact that the resist is barely necessary. I wish that the Blessings were actually a passive for the Shields that would make them automatically applied while the shields were on (maybe make them like a Dark Barrier?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdra04
Solution 2: Summon Boulder should at least do the same damage Drip Bomb does. This won't be so crazy considering that right now, Earth only has two "useable" skills in the form of Earthquake and Cleaving Terra. Deadly Fen becoming an Earth counterpart of Scorching Earth is not a bad idea either.
Summon Boulder does more damage than Drip Bomb. However, due to the fact that it's slower (half as fast) it doesn't deal the same. So true, I would decrease the cast and cooldown on it. My personal change to it would probably change it from a 2 cast 4.5 cool to a 1.5 cast and 2 cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdra04
Solution 4: Fix Light Wave. Srsly. The skill could be fantastic if the AoE were fixed because it already deals higher damage than Radiant Strike. Also, move it to Priest. Hybrid Light Mages already get tons of AoEs, so it won't be unfair that they move this skill to Pure.
Dunno. I'm not sure why it'd go to Pure. I guess if it had a different and more useable AoE pattern then I guess it'd make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FruitTingles
Counterpunch+FlashCut I couldn't agree more
Thanks, I really felt that they were kinda dumby the way they are now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FruitTingles
However I don't see how Tetra is considered THAT overkill for bosses, normal mobs yes, but it still takes me like 3 tetras to kill count blood :/
There are three primary fighting aspects of Trickster: PvP/GvG, PvM, and PvBoss. I think if a skill is obviously overpowered in two aspects of the game then I think it needs looking at. But dropping a quarter of the damage, it would still do (I believe) a reasonable amount of damage, and would also encourage people to even bother with Uppercut and Counter, even if they never do get some kind of change.

@Kahru:
Didn't say that they were garbage (like Lions), only meant that some of the other classes are significantly better.
 
08-27-2011   #7 (permalink)
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I think I agree with everything you've said in your first post Momiji, except about counter punch..
It's really strong in pvp, enough to one hit almost as well as tetra. Especially a critical.
But if they were to add an after effect..I think the damage should be reduced is all.

I'd also like to add that Primadonnas should get the super hips effect. So nothing crits on them unless 100+ levels higher..Primas don't have many skills so..the least they can do is give them that effect.

And I'd also like to add.. Make lion hits go through power's guard. Problem solved with them..
Also, remove the high-HV-lowers-lion's-damage-thing.. It'd ridiculous.

Finally, give foxes and buffalos a way to get around Dark Barrier. Every other class has a way except foxes..
We have no option but to tank the damage we dish out, and it is literally impossible to kill a dark mage that has over 50k hp on a fox.

Charms have magic def breaker, Bunnies have FF, Lions don't get their damage reflected, and other mages ..don't get affected.

Last edited by YenSai; 08-27-2011 at 12:54 PM.
 
08-27-2011   #8 (permalink)
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I disagree with the Soul Master blessing thing... I do have quite a bit of AC on my gears 'cause they're MyShop but if you're going to remove the AC formula from it all together, then make LK atleast 3-4x stronger... 1k lk does like 2.6k each blessing -_- should be way more... and don't add MA to the formula! Soul Masters will dish high damage with blessings and AR and we will simply kill ourselves on charm types with 1 AR @_@

And another change to blessings is that the damage should NOT be affected by MD at all.. it should be like PA for Thief Masters.. same damage no matter what because light mages get the 2 MD buffs and a level 150 mage can get enough MD to stop a 2k blessing (because MA affects the amount of DP/MD a light mage gets with Light Shield...)

For Fox... make landmines how they are in another version (I forgot what one it was exactly.. Q_Q), which is being able to throw them from a far distance, and I'd like to make them last longer, maybe even last forever, but limit to how many we can place (4-5 is reasonable.. 8D lol)
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08-27-2011   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
-Bullets and Throwing Items
Make them weightless
Rationale: If Empty Cards can be weightless, then so can bullets and throwing items. I think it's only fair.
This, so much. SO MUCH.
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08-27-2011   #10 (permalink)
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Added some stuff (specifically, to the Sense types and Sheep).
 
08-27-2011   #11 (permalink)
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Oh..I thought everyone could kill bosses pretty quickly..I guess it's just me? :/
Then again 50 hits? No wayy ou mean 50 spell casts or 50hits counting arrows seperately O_O
 
08-27-2011   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vixen
I disagree with the Soul Master blessing thing... I do have quite a bit of AC on my gears 'cause they're MyShop but if you're going to remove the AC formula from it all together, then make LK atleast 3-4x stronger... 1k lk does like 2.6k each blessing -_- should be way more... and don't add MA to the formula! Soul Masters will dish high damage with blessings and AR and we will simply kill ourselves on charm types with 1 AR @_@
The damage from Blessings really depends on who or what you're getting attacked by. 1k LK is more than enough to do 10k each Blessing to a Red Salamander, but then again Red Salamanders have negative MD. Sure there's AC on quite a few Magic type equipment, but it's not as useful as MA or LK or even HP to a mage relative to all the things they specialize in.

I understand about the little trick of being able to Arrow Rush a Charm's Mana Reflector with low MA and high powered Blessings. But I'd rather not be limited to being only able to take out a Charm type only when they have Mana Reflector up because my MA based attacks are incredibly weak.

The bigger problem is how there's overpowered 2nd job reflection skills that work on % instead of stats in the first place. Percentage based anything can become way too powerful way too fast (see Dark Barrier and Mana Reflector and the heal over time Light skills when used with high HP). Base those skills off of side-tracking stats (like LK for Blessings) and steer this game away from the "dump everything into 1 or 2 stats" concept that has gone way too far already.

That's what I think anyway...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vixen
And another change to blessings is that the damage should NOT be affected by MD at all.. it should be like PA for Thief Masters.. same damage no matter what because light mages get the 2 MD buffs and a level 150 mage can get enough MD to stop a 2k blessing (because MA affects the amount of DP/MD a light mage gets with Light Shield...)
^THIS... 110% This.

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08-27-2011   #13 (permalink)
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Fox:
Spoiler!



Soul Masters:
Spoiler!

I don't understand why people say certain chars are so weak, Soul masters can EASILY kill light mages, all they have to do is outlk them and the blessings would go through SoH..Or at least they used to.

If they took that out, they really need to add it back in. Honestly, Soul masters are the best fighter against mages. The blessings KILL dark mages, and if they went through SoH they'd KILL light mages as well. (Only if the soul master outlked them of course..)

Lions can easily be fixed by doing the things I've listed in my above post..

Last edited by YenSai; 08-27-2011 at 03:08 PM.
 
08-27-2011   #14 (permalink)
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@ YenSai

Out LK-ing a Light Mage isn't the problem with them, it's the gigantic boost in MD they get from Mana Shield and Light Shield that reduces Blessing damage way too much to the point where a lv 170 light mage can completely block them against 700~900 LK.

Not to mention they've got % based auto-healing skills that practically cover any damage Blessings manage to get through.

EDIT: I really wish Blessings were way more powerful, so those who don't buy into MyShop and the like can use them without feeling like they're 1st job spells when they see the damage. The issue of them being overpowered is a matter of personal strategy against them a thing this game lacks inbetween the run up instant 1HKO and the Arrow Rush spam. Here's a chance to actually make Arrow Rush a bad idea.

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08-27-2011   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanYa4eVr
@ YenSai

Out LK-ing a Light Mage isn't the problem with them, it's the gigantic boost in MD they get from Mana Shield and Light Shield that reduces Blessing damage way too much to the point where a lv 170 light mage can completely block them against 700~900 LK.

Not to mention they've got % based auto-healing skills that practically cover any damage Blessings manage to get through.

Ohh..I totally forgot about that. That gives them even more of a reason to remove the MD damage reduce from blessings.
 
08-27-2011   #16 (permalink)
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Also, for those that don't know: AC isn't just used for some formula with some Soul Master skills. AC also actually plays a part in magical crit rate (for all skills); LK is also used in the magical crit rate formula, but AC matters just as much as LK does.
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08-27-2011   #17 (permalink)
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Just a note, won't try to balance too much for PvP/GvG. It will always be forever imbalanced and I'm not even going to try to balance it, especially since I don't ever PvP/GvG seriously.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
-HV
No longer gun defense
Rationale: If Senses are supposed to be the opposites/counter of Charms, why on earth is one category of damage that they do included in one of their defenses? Monsters don't deal gun damage, so it doesn't hurt them in PvM/PvBoss anyways.
I can't agree with this more. By having charms naturally strong against gun damage, I don't understand what gunners are good against at this point.

Supposedly, they're naturally strong against charm types. Yet they don't have any resistance to the charm's arsenal of stun attacks, die in a snap in just about every situation, and can't seem to make any good damage without standing there for 10 seconds charging up Shield Breaker (and failing TROLLOLOLOL).

I haven't played a gunner, nor have I observed many gunners in PvM (aside from a few haxx'd ones like my shining Vis in armor~) so I can't make any comments about it. I just believe that the concept of a gunner is slightly flawed. Or much rather, I don't believe that "death" should be the gunner's concept. They need to get a power boost or some other interesting way to make them worthwhile.

And in PvP, I've almost never seen a gunner able to stop a coon's rampage.
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08-27-2011   #19 (permalink)
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I wouldn't say coons are too hard to kill.. but they just have too many stuns. It's overpowered and ridiculous.
For gamblers, they either need to lose skunk, or lose the stuns from full house and impelling rage/power charging.
Having all of those stuns, a gambler can LITERALLY keep you stunned until they kill you. There's nothing overpowered about that at all, right?

Skunk pouch is enough. All the other stuns are unnecessary.
 
08-28-2011   #20 (permalink)
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Power Charging has a stun? Okay, obviously forgot about that. Will include a change to remove some of their stuns in my next update.
 

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