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11-06-2012   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Care
I loved grinding when I used to play. I went from level 1 to 275 in 15 hours total once, over the period of four days.

Pretty sure there are others who love grinding, as well.
I did too before but i think i did it too much already as to why i don't like it as much anymore.
 
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11-06-2012   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KungFuPets
I really don't get the concept of people complaining that the game is too easy, and then complain that the game is too difficult when GMs gave us hax Tap Spa monsters or almost 100% accurate Fiesta Grand Ballroom monsters. People's hax equipments make the game easy, not the game itself
I agree with this. If the game so easy, go do Fiesta Grand Ballroom, or do Harkon Defense. But it's too hard you say? Uh-huh...

If you don't want it, don't use it. Is your level of enjoyment so dependent on a comparison between yourself and other people? That's sad if you think about it.
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11-06-2012   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torikakae
I agree with this. If the game so easy, go do Fiesta Grand Ballroom, or do Harkon Defense. But it's too hard you say? Uh-huh...

If you don't want it, don't use it. Is your level of enjoyment so dependent on a comparison between yourself and other people? That's sad if you think about it.
Pretty much for this post!
 
11-06-2012   #24 (permalink)
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The date is probably for the world star boxes.
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11-07-2012   #25 (permalink)
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Okay wow this looks tempting.. i mean MA +60.
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11-07-2012   #26 (permalink)
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Not surprised, seeing that once I learned of it from the Future Content thread, it was only a manner of time. =3=

Back to the other obscure parts of the internets!
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11-07-2012   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuPets
Well, EXP stamps/seals are a luxury, it costs real money to use and isn't necessarily needed.
Neither are boosters. Or MyShop, for that matter. Yet why do we use it? Because it saves time. The only difference between boosters and seals is that the former you can get in-game; the latter you have to spend money on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuPets
I THINK NOBODY likes to grind. Thus, the EXP stamp was born?
I have always grinded. I remember what it was like grinding at Ice Dungeon 3 and Tapasco Field 3/4 with a Dark Lord, using only Arrow Rush and Dark skills, all the way to 300. Grinding nowadays (at least for most Mages) is a piece of cake in comparison. Like I said, people have been spoiled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuPets
If people wanted the "challenge", stick to strictly in-game equips (no offense meant to anybody )
I'm not a frequent gamer unlike others here, but I'm pretty sure that is not most people's definition of "challenge".

Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuPets
I really don't get the concept of people complaining that the game is too easy, and then complain that the game is too difficult when GMs gave us hax Tap Spa monsters or almost 100% accurate Fiesta Grand Ballroom monsters. People's hax equipments make the game easy, not the game itself
It's probably not the same group of people complaining about both things. People who complain the game is too difficult obviously haven't tried other games. Also, our hax equipment is possible because SGI decided to release them, and they are a part of the game, so in a way, it's the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuPets
Level doesn't necessarily mean you are "strong" nor "weak"
I wasn't talking about level. I was talking about the benefit of these seals, like every other benefit in the game that you have to PAY for instead of WORK for.

I, for one, wouldn't mind so much if these seals were something you work for, like the booster potions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torikakae
If you don't want it, don't use it. Is your level of enjoyment so dependent on a comparison between yourself and other people? That's sad if you think about it.
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about people wanting it or not. It's about money (again) driving the game forward while leaving more people behind. Can you honestly name one thing in Trickster that money can't buy? I can't. If this is how things should progress, they may as well release runes/seals/whatever that you can double-click and gain 10 levels instantly.

The real comparison is between this game, where money can buy you anything, and other games, where some good things can only be earned through hard work. If you ask me, that's sad.
 
11-07-2012   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about people wanting it or not. It's about money (again) driving the game forward while leaving more people behind. Can you honestly name one thing in Trickster that money can't buy? I can't. If this is how things should progress, they may as well release runes/seals/whatever that you can double-click and gain 10 levels instantly.

The real comparison is between this game, where money can buy you anything, and other games, where some good things can only be earned through hard work. If you ask me, that's sad.
Things real money can't buy? You mean things that don't require real money? Mmkay:

Altiverse equips, Compound Materials, Mine Stones (for upgrading equipments), Boss Sets, quick leveling in CT, Fiesta Maps, PPD's, HP and MP potions, those are the things at the top of my head for now but most of the necessary things don't need real money. These seals may make things easier, but they're far from necessary.

So what if they want money? What's wrong with it? Are they forcing you to pay money? Will they kill your account if you don't pay money? Will they delete everything you own if you don't pay money? They may want money, but you're the one who's giving it to them. Hell, Apple wants my money but I've yet to buy a damn iPhone like everyone else. They can show, tempt, and brag all they want. The purchasing power is still with ME and it is MY responsibility to spend it wisely, and if I choose not to spend it on these things while others do, why would that be a problem to me?

Just because they want money, doesn't mean they're totally at fault. It's half your fault if you actually buy it.

Besides, these things lasts, like how long? 24 hours? Yeah, sure. Good luck with that. Most people can't even last the 3 hours with the IN-GAME boosters. They'll waste most of it anyway.

PS. "Hard Work" makes me laugh a bit. This is a game. This shouldn't feel like hard work. If you're having fun grinding, bossing, hunting, and collecting, then congrats! That's your way of having fun! If not, then you can spend your real life money that you (or most likely your parents) WORKED HARD for. If you wish to trade real life HARD WORK (in the form of money/time spent working) instead of in-game HARD WORK (time spent in front of the computer, which is TIME SPENT like spent for working a job), then it's your choice because that's how you enjoy yourself. Why would I care? Should I feel jealous? As long as you know what you're doing, and you're having fun with it, then spend away! I trust that you're responsible enough with YOUR OWN money to buy YOUR OWN happiness.

I realize that this may not be your "ideal" system for a game. But that's a subjective opinion. No game is the "ideal" game for everyone. This is just one of the many systems for online games, which have their own ups and downs, as well as lack the charm that this game specifically has (why else do we keep coming back here?). We can choose from hundreds of others. And the scary thing is: What you don't like about one system, may not be minded by others, or they may even like it. It's not fair to bring them down because some people don't like it.
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Last edited by Torikakae; 11-07-2012 at 08:26 AM.
 
11-07-2012   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torikakae
Things real money can't buy? You mean things that don't require real money? Mmkay:

Altiverse equips, Compound Materials, Mine Stones (for upgrading equipments), Boss Sets, quick leveling in CT, Fiesta Maps, PPD's, HP and MP potions, those are the things at the top of my head for now but most of the necessary things don't need real money. These seals may make things easier, but they're far from necessary.
No, I meant things that you can't buy even if you have the real money to pay for them. All those things (and many more) can be obtained with real money, even if indirectly - just sell MyShop for galders, and use those galders to pay for them. Yes, you're right that people can choose to have fun however they want, but in relation to most other MMOs, do you think this is how Trickster should be?

Imagine a complete beginner who has nothing in-game but a lot of money in real life. They wouldn't need to bother to learn anything about the game. Want level 400? Pay someone to power level you. It wouldn't take more than 2 months (trust me). Want to be able to kill everyone in PvP? Buy tons of MyShop (along with your paid-for, power-leveled 400 levels) and go brag about how amazing you are in PvP. I've seen a handful of people who are fairly high level (250+) but don't have the slightest clue about some of the game's basics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torikakae
So what if they want money? What's wrong with it? Are they forcing you to pay money? Will they kill your account if you don't pay money? Will they delete everything you own if you don't pay money? They may want money, but you're the one who's giving it to them. Hell, Apple wants my money but I've yet to buy a damn iPhone like everyone else. They can show, tempt, and brag all they want. The purchasing power is still with ME and it is MY responsibility to spend it wisely, and if I choose not to spend it on these things while others do, why would that be a problem to me?

Just because they want money, doesn't mean they're totally at fault. It's half your fault if you actually buy it.
Their wanting money was not my point, so I won't argue that. I never said it's a problem that they want more money, even if it doesn't surprise me. SGI is a company and I understand that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torikakae
PS. "Hard Work" makes me laugh a bit. This is a game. This shouldn't feel like hard work. If you're having fun grinding, bossing, hunting, and collecting, then congrats! That's your way of having fun! If not, then you can spend your real life money that you (or most likely your parents) WORKED HARD for. If you wish to trade real life HARD WORK (in the form of money/time spent working) instead of in-game HARD WORK (time spent in front of the computer, which is TIME SPENT like spent for working a job), then it's your choice because that's how you enjoy yourself. Why would I care? Should I feel jealous? As long as you know what you're doing, and you're having fun with it, then spend away! I trust that you're responsible enough with YOUR OWN money to buy YOUR OWN happiness.
Things like "hard work" are said in context; if you choose to take it out of its context and compare it to real life situations, that's your choice. A boss that requires strategy and team work (party) to kill is obviously "harder" than a boss that you can solo with one or two melee whacks. When I play this game (or any other game), I aim to have fun and if I don't, I stop. It's not hard work to me. Context matters, you see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torikakae
And the scary thing is: What you don't like about one system, may not be minded by others, or they may even like it. It's not fair to bring them down because some people don't like it.
It seems that more people in this thread disagreed to these new seals than agreed, judging by all the facepalming. Yes, we can choose to move on to other games, or we can voice our opinions. And that's what all of us are doing. I'm not bringing anyone down, and neither are you. If anyone feels brought down by what I said, I'm sorry, I guess?
 
11-07-2012   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rare
Neither are boosters. Or MyShop, for that matter. Yet why do we use it? Because it saves time. The only difference between boosters and seals is that the former you can get in-game; the latter you have to spend money on them.
Well, for the latter (seals) you could just take your billions of galders and go to an MS-seller and buy from him, and thus you just got it in-game (but in an indirect way).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare
I have always grinded. I remember what it was like grinding at Ice Dungeon 3 and Tapasco Field 3/4 with a Dark Lord, using only Arrow Rush and Dark skills, all the way to 300. Grinding nowadays (at least for most Mages) is a piece of cake in comparison. Like I said, people have been spoiled.
And what's wrong with some people being spoiled? Not everyone has the luxury to grind that much time, nor have the arsenal of OP Altiverse Eqs / Boss Sets. Maybe Powerlevelling helps them get past those midlevel ranges that they don't want to redo while making a new character. Or maybe he's just a hardcore PVPer/GVGer that doesn't want to go through tedious stuff in order to level up or progress with the story (Mirage's Blood Rune of Fate anyone?). Its like buying Town Stickers to directly progress with the Episode Quests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare
I'm not a frequent gamer unlike others here, but I'm pretty sure that is not most people's definition of "challenge".
Usually it's because when MyShop users get something better than in-game players do I notice some of these complaints come out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare
It's probably not the same group of people complaining about both things. People who complain the game is too difficult obviously haven't tried other games. Also, our hax equipment is possible because SGI decided to release them, and they are a part of the game, so in a way, it's the game.

I wasn't talking about level. I was talking about the benefit of these seals, like every other benefit in the game that you have to PAY for instead of WORK for.
Didn't you just mentioned EXP seal?
VVV This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare
I was referring more to the EXP seals than anything.
Anyway, Real Life money came from time spent working in real life. So in a way, seals are still WORKED for

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare
I, for one, wouldn't mind so much if these seals were something you work for, like the booster potions.
Well, you could "work" for it by getting galders and buying from an MS-seller

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about people wanting it or not. It's about money (again) driving the game forward while leaving more people behind. Can you honestly name one thing in Trickster that money can't buy? I can't. If this is how things should progress, they may as well release runes/seals/whatever that you can double-click and gain 10 levels instantly.
Ahhhh.. See? It's when MS beats or gets an advantage over in-game when people get ticked off. With the right price, everything can be bought either with MS or galder. (I'm not bragging or anything. Actually I don't mean anything bad, but this is the sad cruel truth ).

Speaking of moving forward: What is wrong with moving forward? Everyone has to put some effort to catch up with the game. When I came back from hiatus, TO left me behind because of ECONOMY INFLATION. Everything costs too much for me to buy with a simple galder drop from a monster.

It's like GameGuard. Yeah I know it causes a lot of errors and what not. But in the long run, it will be good for us (hopefully [being Optimistic]).

I really don't understand why people are just so negative when something like MyShop beats the in-game items. Everyone has access to them, right? I mean, if you have plenty of in-game galders, you could just go to an MS-seller and you could use them yourself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare
[SIZE=1][SIZE=1]Imagine a complete [SIZE=1]beginner [SIZE=1]who has nothing in-game but a lot of money in real life. They [SIZE=1]wouldn't need to bother t[SIZE=1]o learn anything about[SIZE=1] the game. Want level 400? Pay someone to power level you. It wouldn't take more than 2 months (trust me). Want to be able to kill everyone in PvP?[SIZE=1] Buy tons of MyShop [SIZE=1](along with your paid-f[SIZE=1]or, power-leveled 400 levels[SIZE=1]) and go brag about how a[SIZE=1]mazing you are in PvP. I've seen a handful of people who are fairly high level (250+) but don't have the slightest clue about some of the game's basics.
And what's wrong with that? It's his character, and he's the one missing out on the game mechanics and the fun of it. For example: So he bought all those SC 1~16 cards, he's the one missing out on the joys of Card Identification

Unless, it irks you when such a noob beats you at the game which you worked hard for in order to be the best?

Anyway, yeah people can voice out their hatred for these seals. I do accept the fact that seals will get a lot of dislikes, but GMs did put a lot of thought into it, so it must be beneficial to them AND to the game (players). Myshop helps us, but costs money.

This is the fate of Trickster (just like TO having GameGuard)

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PS: Rare, what you dislike the most is when people can simply buy their way instead of work for it (since you do mention "PAY instead of WORK for it" A LOT of times, or something like that). And yet this IS a MONEY game and not a purely in-game game. So I guess there will always be MONEY involved.

Anyway, let's all have fun and see what happens then these seals are relased
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11-07-2012   #31 (permalink)
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I, for one, wouldn't mind so much if these seals were something you work for, like the booster potions.
You can work for your Galders, find a MS seller, and buy the seals you worked hard for.


I would spend money on a seal that boosts HV (if that exists) just to see the numbers go up for a day.. (3.5k pls?) :3
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11-08-2012   #32 (permalink)
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Exp, TM, Drop Rate seals are 2K each while the others are 1K each. Not bad for a 1-day buff, right?
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11-08-2012   #33 (permalink)
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Since you're so happy and accepting of anything and everything SGI releases, regardless of its its implications for the game in the long run, I'm sure they could release an item that gets you level 400 instantly and your arguments for it would be exactly the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuPets
And what's wrong with some people being spoiled?
There's nothing wrong with it. You obviously didn't understand my post. Some people here don't enjoy grinding because they think it takes too much time or it's too hard for them. But if you try out another game (LaTale, for example) you would see that grinding in TO is dead easy in comparison. Speaking in general, one level in another game could easily take you several hours to get. I'm surprised people aren't used to the leveling speed in TO by now, even if it is for a pure Bunny (the slowest class to level by grinding solo).

Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuPets
Usually it's because when MyShop users get something better than in-game players do I notice some of these complaints come out.
Meaning what? I'm a MyShop user myself and "we" are constantly getting something better than in-game players with practically every patch. Were you around when Azhi Boxes were first released? So many players complained about that kind of "lolboxes" (myself included) ruining the game back then, but now most of us are used to them and these random boxes have become a regular thing. Maybe some of us just hope that each patch will bring more new and interesting game content (level 300+ quests, maybe?) instead of cash shop items like these that increasingly make this game seem like a walk in the park!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuPets
Anyway, Real Life money came from time spent working in real life. So in a way, seals are still WORKED for
Why bother doing quests? Why bother leveling? Maybe if SGI release a "Level 400 Rune" someday, then people (with your logic) can spend $1,000 to reach the level cap instantly. Seriously, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuPets
Ahhhh.. See? It's when MS beats or gets an advantage over in-game when people get ticked off.
Actually, no. If that were the case, people like myself would not use MyShop, and we'd have something bad to say about every cash shop update. Every single MyShop item gives players an advantage; you don't see me complaining about Artisan Flames or Repair Powders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuPets
When I came back from hiatus, TO left me behind because of ECONOMY INFLATION. Everything costs too much for me to buy with a simple galder drop from a monster.
The massive inflation was in part due to a certain glitch abuser (ROBOCOBO) duplicating galders and items and then giving away all the stuff, allowing this money that came out of nowhere overnight to filter through the economy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuPets
It's like GameGuard. Yeah I know it causes a lot of errors and what not. But in the long run, it will be good for us (hopefully [being Optimistic]).
So you state that GameGuard will be good for us, and then admit that it's only wishful thinking? That sounds more like false hope to me.

Evidence that GameGuard is bad: Take a look at all the complaints here, it's simple.
Evidence that GmaeGuard is good: ..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuPets
I really don't understand why people are just so negative when something like MyShop beats the in-game items. Everyone has access to them, right? I mean, if you have plenty of in-game galders, you could just go to an MS-seller and you could use them yourself.
Maybe it's because some of us prefer constructive criticism to constantly welcoming every single change with open arms. I don't know about you, but I've been playing since pre-Revo. Like others here (and maybe yourself as well), I've seen the game gone through some big changes. I would personally like to see it improve more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuPets
PS: Rare, what you dislike the most is when people can simply buy their way instead of work for it (since you do mention "PAY instead of WORK for it" A LOT of times, or something like that). And yet this IS a MONEY game and not a purely in-game game. So I guess there will always be MONEY involved.
In other F2P games with cash shop items, the items give a slight advantage to the players who use them. I'm not sure they influence the dynamics of the whole game so easily. Unless you can name me another game where you can kill a boss with one whack (lol?), the experience bonus gets as high as +1100% and people can reach the level cap in just, say.. a month?

Also.. if EXP seals = 2k, that's 100m per seal. 100m for 24 hours of +200%, of which some hours would definitely be wasted.
If you buy boosters for 10m each, that's 80m (8 boosters = 24 hours) for the same thing.

^ ..Just throwing this out here, in case people think seals are cheaper.
 
11-08-2012   #34 (permalink)
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There's no point in actually making a fuss about these seals, there's no way to change what TO has become and actually seals are what myshop should actually be. It's more valid to complain about myshop equips as they are the actual imbalance and thus makes the game myshop dependent. If you actually compare seals to myshop equipments(namely lolbox), seals give a slight advantage while lolbox gives a huge advantage.
 
11-08-2012   #35 (permalink)
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the good side about seals is you dont have to equiep a booster o:

that could be a important factor in training for a couple people cuz you can be stronger if dont have to equiep a booster
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11-08-2012   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fate23
There's no point in actually making a fuss about these seals, there's no way to change what TO has become and actually seals are what myshop should actually be. It's more valid to complain about myshop equips as they are the actual imbalance and thus makes the game myshop dependent. If you actually compare seals to myshop equipments(namely lolbox), seals give a slight advantage while lolbox gives a huge advantage.
We have boosters already. They are technically a cash shop item, even if you can get them purely in-game.

But anyway, I have no idea if these seals stack with boosters. If they don't, scrap everything I said, and kite384 is right.
 
11-08-2012   #37 (permalink)
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Of course they stack, silly bear.
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11-08-2012   #38 (permalink)
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Sorry for double posting. iPhone is weak
 
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Seals!!! Doesn't seem useful for stats except WT. Nice try to game rage. I've been with eTO since the beta test and true that many things change but still can be played. U just need more effort that's all. I can name something which money can't buy in trickster. Pure enjoyment and real fun when playing with frens. Isn't it the same as real life?

And how much % does the drop rate boost?
 
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Answers in Bold Underline:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare
Since you're so happy and accepting of anything and everything SGI releases, regardless of its its implications for the game in the long run, I'm sure they could release an item that gets you level 400 instantly and your arguments for it would be exactly the same.

There's nothing wrong with it. You obviously didn't understand my post. Some people here don't enjoy grinding because they think it takes too much time or it's too hard for them. But if you try out another game (LaTale, for example) you would see that grinding in TO is dead easy in comparison. Speaking in general, one level in another game could easily take you several hours to get. I'm surprised people aren't used to the leveling speed in TO by now, even if it is for a pure Bunny (the slowest class to level by grinding solo).


People who wants it to be EASIER than easy will buy it


Meaning what? I'm a MyShop user myself and "we" are constantly getting something better than in-game players with practically every patch. Were you around when Azhi Boxes were first released? So many players complained about that kind of "lolboxes" (myself included) ruining the game back then, but now most of us are used to them and these random boxes have become a regular thing. Maybe some of us just hope that each patch will bring more new and interesting game content (level 300+ quests, maybe?) instead of cash shop items like these that increasingly make this game seem like a walk in the park!

So its you guys who got used to these kinds of releases, not the other players. And besides, maybe GMs are stuck in a rut and can't think of a story plot for quests Levels 300+.

Why bother doing quests? Why bother leveling? Maybe if SGI release a "Level 400 Rune" someday, then people (with your logic) can spend $1,000 to reach the level cap instantly. Seriously, no.


Well, they did give out 2nd Job and 3rd Job Change MS items. Its up to GMs to decide on that "Instant Level 400" item. I'm just here playing THEIR game.


The massive inflation was in part due to a certain glitch abuser (ROBOCOBO) duplicating galders and items and then giving away all the stuff, allowing this money that came out of nowhere overnight to filter through the economy.


Yeah, but did I just sit down and complain and say to GMs "Track down who obtained what from the hacker and remove the galders they got from an abused glitch"? No, I adapted to the economy and moved forward.


So you state that GameGuard will be good for us, and then admit that it's only wishful thinking? That sounds more like false hope to me.

Evidence that GameGuard is bad: Take a look at all the complaints here, it's simple.
Evidence that GmaeGuard is good: ..?

Maybe it's because some of us prefer constructive criticism to constantly welcoming every single change with open arms. I don't know about you, but I've been playing since pre-Revo. Like others here (and maybe yourself as well), I've seen the game gone through some big changes. I would personally like to see it improve more.


GameGuard hasn't been OBVIOUSLY impressive since we haven't actually seen it work. But its common sense to put an anti-hacking system or whatever to protect the system rather than wait for such another hack attack to occur and then everybody will be complaining that a hacker is ruining the economy, causing everyone to DC, bla bla bla, but at that time it will be TOO LATE


[SIZE=1]Also.. if EXP seals = 2k, that's 100m per seal. 100m for 24 hours of +200%, of which some hours would definitely be wasted.
If you buy boosters for 10m each, that's 80m[SIZE=1] (8 boosters = 24 hours) for the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kite384
the good side about seals is you dont have to equiep a booster o:

that could be a important factor in training for a couple people cuz you can be stronger if dont have to equiep a booster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Care
Of course they stack, silly bear.
*Cough!* What these two said *Cough!*


Yeah, anyway let's all go in and enjoy the seals

PS: I respect everything that Rare said and I cherish these moments of "sharing ideas" Peace!
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