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04-25-2009   #1 (permalink)
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With Sieg having all these new skills that can throw out damage, DFist is a bit outdated, eh?

I was thinking, maybe have level 1 DFist, lvl 1 Nado.
These could be used at high decay for a reset.

This build is all about getting those newly buffed massive dmg skills at low decay.
Lunia Skill Calculator(JP)

EX: AA>>AS FDS/Kicking *blahblahblah combo more here* *at wall* as sp nado backdash dfist (damage has been reset) Whirling/CMS, *melee to max tourny limit* SS(high lvled) CMS/Whirling

Atm in current GLunia all Siegs [can] do is either nado then spam skills during it for damage, or infinite, waiting for nado to come off cd.
I plan on making a Sieg and playing it more like a Yuki.

Trying to find space for maxed Minimize the Damage. And 4 (if not, Max) IH. =/ Though I heard that IH lvl 1 will be buffed and the 66+ gap removed.
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Last edited by Jumper; 04-25-2009 at 05:03 PM.
 
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04-25-2009   #2 (permalink)
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Since when did nado dfist ever reset damage.
 
04-25-2009   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrk
Since when did nado dfist ever reset damage.
Do I have to explain to you the mechanics of hard knock-down resets?

Decay Reset Skills - ijji Forums
Quote:
When you hit someone as they are flying backwards via hard knock down, they are stood up. This is what allows Boink into Fuzzy Whirl to work, DFist into Nado to work (notice that you change directions during a nado fist), and cb into mines to work.
Quote:
3 ways resets happen:
1: The above
2: The skill lifts a downed opponent, such as Ice Pillars (both Yuki and Dainn) or Entwining Roots.
3: You down attack then a flinching or lifting move hits, such as space>>dodge, nado space, or ice arrow cold whirlwind.
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04-25-2009   #4 (permalink)
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I hope someone uses thunder sound
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04-25-2009   #5 (permalink)
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04/25 18:45:50 .mis: and... it can
04/25 18:45:53 .mis: iirc it doesn't always happen though

News to me, but if it's unreliable I wouldn't bother.
 
04-25-2009   #6 (permalink)
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what about protective fortitude

does it not let sieg get launched or did it change again

maybe you could have high level nado and just launch people with it

then rage explosion
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04-25-2009   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samal
what about protective fortitude

does it not let sieg get launched or did it change again

maybe you could have high level nado and just launch people with it

then rage explosion
I wonder how fast max nado is. o.o
Maybe it could be even more reliable than a voke. xD
But, meh, don't have the SP.

And I forgot about that pro fort buff... =S
Dunno how to fit in any points... Maybe I should drop maxed kicking? But they buffed it to do 300x3 dmg. T_T
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04-25-2009   #8 (permalink)
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That's why low level pvps are better to an extent...

my nub plays with only max CC and max FB +1 and it owns. Only problem is the mana consumption but then I'd have to get a stupid L Drake set for it or get to 65 for bonus junk.
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04-25-2009   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrk
04/25 18:45:50 .mis: and... it can
04/25 18:45:53 .mis: iirc it doesn't always happen though

News to me, but if it's unreliable I wouldn't bother.
it always resets.. it's just for some reason the hit afterwards doesn't always have a reset (after the 2nd bounce)
sometimes it'll be ur 2nd hit.. sometimes it starts decaying at that hit
i.e. nado dfist FF sometimes has no decay on first hit so it ends up something like 4 air combo after 3 hits but sometimes it goes to 7 hit air combo
from two bounces after the reset it should always start at 4air combo ending in 7hit air combo but it doesn't... which is what mis was pointing out i think

and it's the worst idea to reset with dfist.. that's one of ur dmg skills.. u reset... then do wut... there's nothing else to do dmg with
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samal
what about protective fortitude

does it not let sieg get launched or did it change again

maybe you could have high level nado and just launch people with it

then rage explosion
i said u dont flinch.. if the info is from me
he can get launched... and i finally found the perfect thing to compare it with
endurance pot was wrong
it's ep4 pirates.. u can launch them but u can't continue combo that's basically wut happens but he also can't flinch from normal attks i think.. he can flinch from skills

this is wut i've seen so far..
tia's slide.. no flinch
dainn's ocean flinch
dainn's dash as after launch cannot continue combo


@ the high lvl nado... THERE'S NOTHING THAT CHANGES
i dunno who said it goes faster.. but i see nothing change


to the skill build:
and... SS to CMS is far from efficient there's only one klunian that uses it perfectly and there's no difference between his dmg output compared to a normal build
..... lvl 1 nado... u've been gone from sieg way too long... that thing is so inconsistent it's useless... if u wanna reset.. u throw it in the middle of a combo then dfist ur left with one bounce meaning u have like.. a lil bit to catch the opponent which usually ends up being u not aligned and not being able to combo

just like normal builds.... without windkick u'll be having a fun time chasing 0hp players (windkick would be the closest skill to feeling like a yuki because of it's near instant cast, u can windkick out of slide if pressed correctly)

lastly, high lvl fds is weird, i was playing with it and dash as FDS is harder to do which would cause many misses and losing ur combo start

to conclude, dfist is not outdated it is still sieg's burst dmg

Last edited by Lunar; 04-25-2009 at 07:14 PM.
 
04-25-2009   #10 (permalink)
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plus no reagent
now that's hax lol

BTW with jumper's build you can do full dmg CMS/FDS after
which isnt a bad idea when the dash cancel patch arrives (dash cancelable FDS?), since it\ll do more dmg than maxed dfist
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04-25-2009   #11 (permalink)
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CMS=400x4,Kicking=300x3,FDS=400x4?5?(dunno), Whirling=300x3
Can combo after all of these, + They do almost as much as a fist.
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04-25-2009   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumper
CMS=400x4,Kicking=300x3,FDS=400x4?5?(dunno), Whirling=300x3
Can combo after all of these, + They do almost as much as a fist.
FDS is 4 hits.

Also, you can do AA >>AS nado FDS (Did in PvP yesterday, and they kept bouncing on the nado.)
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04-25-2009   #13 (permalink)
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*by high level nado I mean using rage and then being able to hit after with all those skills (level 1 nado doesnt seem to bounce much now does it)
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04-25-2009   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladiat
FDS is 4 hits.

Also, you can do AA >>AS nado FDS (Did in PvP yesterday, and they kept bouncing on the nado.)
Seems like a waste of nado. After we get the Sieg skill cacel patch, you can just do aa>>as FDS >>A nado fist lv1 (dmg is now reset) whirling >>a SS CMS >>a etc...

So I should get lvl 2 nado for an extra bounce, Lunar?
I thought DFist was getting updated so the after-delay >> cancelable(faster than s cancel), which would make for enough time to combo after.
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04-25-2009   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumper
CMS=400x4,Kicking=300x3,FDS=400x4?5?(dunno), Whirling=300x3
Can combo after all of these, + They do almost as much as a fist.
those numbers from updated or regular..
first off i'd like to mention
defense removes by numbers.. like resistance etc. i dunno how the system works..
go to bonus and use lvl 1 new moon piece on dark elves.. does like 150? then u use maxed tears does 200 moon piece dmg would be original 2+148 dmg while tears is 100+100 dmg numbers aren't correct but it's a constant number that gets added or in defense case removed

dfist.. is 1.2k dmg... u add defense.. goes to 1.1k or 1kdmg
kicking... 300 dmg... gets lowered to 200x3 meaning 300 dmg reduced
fds.. same thing... 400 goes to 300 x 4 with air decay... 300 x 2 + 200 +150 or something like that making it... 950. weaker than dfist

rough estimates on all numbers

if u played maplestory i'm sure it's like savage blow... and the discussion about that skill

Last edited by Lunar; 04-25-2009 at 07:32 PM.
 
04-25-2009   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar
those numbers from updated or regular..
first off i'd like to mention
defense removes by numbers.. like resistance etc. i dunno how the system works..
go to bonus and use lvl 1 new moon piece on dark elves.. does like 150? then u use maxed tears does 200 moon piece dmg would be original 2+148 dmg while tears is 100+100 dmg numbers aren't correct but it's a constant number that gets added or in defense case removed

dfist.. is 1.2k dmg... u add defense.. goes to 1.1k or 1kdmg
kicking... 300 dmg... gets lowered to 200x3 meaning 300 dmg reduced
fds.. same thing... 400 goes to 300 x 4 with air decay... 300 x 2 + 200 +150 or something like that making it... 950. weaker than dfist

rough estimates on all numbers

if u played maplestory i'm sure it's like savage blow... and the discussion about that skill
=/

Savage Blow is 80% damage + critical damage x6 hits (Max level).

I think it's 300 x 2 + 240 + 180 if you add decay for FDS, so it's around 1k damage.
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04-25-2009   #17 (permalink)
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I think what lunar is trying to say is that dfist will still be effective

it's effective because damage from defense only gets reduced once.

with multi hit skills, each hit gets reduced, so the damage may end up being less than what is actually stated

here's a rather crude example

skill 1: hits for 50 damage, 1 hit

skill 2: 10 hits total, 6 damage each

defense reduces each hit by 2, so skill 1 ends up hitting more
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04-25-2009   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladiat
=/

Savage Blow is 80% damage + critical damage x6 hits (Max level).

I think it's 300 x 2 + 240 + 180 if you add decay for FDS, so it's around 1k damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samal
I think what lunar is trying to say is that dfist will still be effective

it's effective because damage from defense only gets reduced once.

with multi hit skills, each hit gets reduced, so the damage may end up being less than what is actually stated

here's a rather crude example

skill 1: hits for 50 damage, 1 hit

skill 2: 10 hits total, 6 damage each

defense reduces each hit by 2, so skill 1 ends up hitting more
yea that..
savage blow was a 6 hit skill... it took defense 6 times... making it weaker against monsters with high defense as compared to one hit skills from the knight class

i could be wrong.. but that's how it looks like... excluding finishing blow that thing has a weird feature.. most skills have a cap of 60% reduction.. but finishing blow seems to be able to reduce up to 90%.. 3.5k defense sieg only took like 80 dmg from a max finishing blow
 
04-25-2009   #19 (permalink)
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With all this talk in defense, no wonder the reduction of damage in IMS is so noticeable. It supposedly hits around 280/ea for me but it only hits like 140 ish in Free PvP
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