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-   -   [MSoTW] [08/01 - 14/01] Alvatore (http://ggftw.com/forum/sdgo-ms-discussions/107133-msotw-08-01-14-01-alvatore.html)

xConvict 01-09-2012 03:19 AM

[MSoTW] [08/01 - 14/01] Alvatore
 
Alvatore
“The Golden Toilet Seat Crab Flashlight Thing”
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...s_Alvatore.jpg
“The Mighty Alvatore”

Stats:
HP: 12.3
Attack: 21.3
Defense: 24.3
Agility: 15.6
Speed: 22.8
SP: 18.3
Skills:

Reload Up:
Makes your ammo reload faster.
>Absolutely godly skill for Alvatore. All your range weaponries will now have godly reload speed.

Observer’s Ambition:
When unit health drops below 40%, Increased Search Distance, Boost Duration/Recovery, and Damage is maximized.
>The Increase of Search Distance gives you more range to lock-on to your enemy specially since most of alvatore’s weaponry are long range. The Boost Duration plus recovery increase gives alvatore some needed mobility and the maximization of damage makes all your attack hit with the highest damage alvatore can give.

Weaponry:
The Giant Crab Arm
>4 hit melee. Does decent damage with an ok execution. Use only when needed SPECIALLY against rocks.

GN Beam Cannon
>4 Ammo Long range flashlight with MEDIUM reload. Give it reload up and it turns deadly. Watch paper without beam defense melt. Outranging papers and rocks with its high power level of 1900 makes this beam cannon super strong plus it doesn’t KD unlike most flashlights.

GN Large Fangs
>Remote weapon with 190 per shot. Has 6 ammo so if you fire all of em, it’ll be 1140.

Alvaaron Purge Mode
Stats:
Attack: 21.3
Defense: 18.3
Special: 21.3
Speed: 24.6
Agility: 25.5
HP: 12.3

Weaponries:
GN Beam Sabre.
>4 hits before knockdown. Has good vertical and horizontal range for a scissors.

GN Beam Rifle.
>6 ammo penetrating beam. Is not blocked by Paper defense (eg. Anti flashlight) but is blocked by Veteran Sniper.

Gameplay:

Some might think that it’s a tanky scissors for its defense stat + GN Field, guess what, you dead wrong. After that GN Field breaks, your defenses goes down like crazy. Its like the 24.3 defense is cut in half. My gameplay with Alvatore is Flashlight + Funnel Spam then melee the rest. Beware, you have all beam weaponry, don’t just fire at will if you know that there is a I field/Yata No Kagami user as your enemy. Purge after your GN Field breaks then continue to spam beams. Dodging SP is almost impossible cause of the large size of Alvatore. SP counter them.

Builds:


C HP!
Absolutely necessary for Alvatore cause of that low HP. Lower than an A rank.

OC Attack
Gives your flashlight more power.

Leongz 01-09-2012 03:33 AM

Never thought I'd see an Alvatore article.
Good article indeed. :py48:

Crimsonred 01-09-2012 03:34 AM

Errors I found:
Mode 1 has no SP stat
Mode 2 has lower HP (You have to be kidding me, HP does not change between modes)

Another very important thing to note is that mode 1 has MA advantages.
This means it can use quick descent and has anti-flinch armour (does not apply to all MA's, but in the case of this suit, it does apply).

I am disappointed.

xConvict 01-09-2012 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leongz (Post 1664593)
Never thought I'd see an Alvatore article.
Good article indeed. :py48:

Anything to see GNAD melt ;D
Thnx leo!~
Its my main scissors over that HK Server.

Retune 01-09-2012 09:02 AM

Gck. I wanna make one now.

I'll stick with my hole-punching Akatsuki for now ><"

At least its also yellow :py07:

AixE 01-09-2012 10:43 AM

GN Beam Rifle.
>6 ammo penetrating beam. Is not blocked by Paper defense (eg. Anti flashlight) but is blocked by Veteran Sniper.

Fixed for you friend :py55:

KirovReporting 01-09-2012 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AixE (Post 1664723)
GN Beam Rifle.
>6 ammo penetrating beam. Is not blocked by Paper defense (eg. Anti flashlight) but is blocked by Veteran Sniper.

Fixed for you friend :py55:

depends on how you see "paper defense"
defense against papers or defense that papers have
cuz only papers have veteran sniper

beef1218 01-09-2012 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimsonred (Post 1664595)
Errors I found:
Mode 1 has no SP stat
Mode 2 has lower HP (You have to be kidding me, HP does not change between modes)

I am disappointed.

Error I found:
For some ms, HP does change between modes, such as Lu Bu.



Another think is that I found the ifield disturbing when I shoot manually in mode2.

Chsal 01-09-2012 05:52 PM

Quote:

Some might think that itís a tanky scissors for its defense stat + GN Field, guess what, you dead wrong. After that GN Field breaks, your defenses goes down like crazy. Its like the 24.3 defense is cut in half.
Overall, its still one of the tankiest if not THE tankiest scissors around.

Alvatore begins with 12000 HP, 7000/80 Shield.
Thus, when you take 8750 damage, shield breaks and you have 10250 HP.
8750 + 10250 = 19000. Not to mention the high defense it has, nor Alvaaron's GN Field. (Note : What this means, is that once Alvatore's shield breaks, it should be treated as if it has roughly 55% hp.)

Defense doesn't lower when your guard breaks btw.

The misconception that Alvatore is fragile, is because of its low HP, and also because spec deals direct HP damage. When a suit with 12000 overall HP, such as Alvatore is hit with a 2000 beam, thats a bigger chunk of its lifebar than a suit with, say, 14500, hence contributing to the feeling of being "fragile".

Comparison to Destiny, a suit with high def and shield
Destiny HP 14000, shield 1400/70
When Destiny Guards 2000 damage, shield breaks, and has 13400 HP left over. 2000 + 13400 = 15400.
Nowhere near as much as Alvatore.

Of course, as Alvatore does still have low HP, it is more vulnerable to spec than other suits.

TLDR : Alvatore is NOT fragile. It has much higher damage soaking capabilities than most suits. It is, however, somewhat vulnerable to spec.

zgmfx19a 01-09-2012 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chsal (Post 1664836)
TLDR : Alvatore is NOT fragile. It has much higher damage soaking capabilities than most suits. It is, however, somewhat vulnerable to spec.

You forgot to factor in the fact that it is a giant in the first form, which makes it pretty much susceptible to focus fire, stray beams/bazookas/homings, as well as it's ability to hide and evade. That pretty much reduces it's tanking capabilities.

It is fragile. A team of players focus firing it from far can easily nuke it's shield off pretty quickly, or when you consider shotgun into play, like V2B, V2AB, Psycho, Ksyatria and the likes. God I love chasing Alvatore with a Psycho. It's pretty easy to assume that MS form will be OHKOed by a single spec when he purges. Even by speccing him when he has high HP, there's also a pretty huge chance of him dying from it.

But that's not to say that Alvatore is terribad. I do quite enjoy playing it. However, it is much more suitable for games like points, where it does trolls pretty hard there. Death matches, not really, if the team knows how to like throw one or two specs at it.

Bng422 01-09-2012 07:06 PM

Mode 1 is indeed fragile.

Its a giant, and once that shield pops and you don't purge you're pretty much good as dead.

Also, a Reborns range sp with skill 2 activated can kill a Alvatore that just spawned o..o

My Zeta's Waverider Crash can almost kill in from the front. I've rammed Andy's SR Dendrobium mode 2 numerous times from the front and it only takes off 1/2 of the hp.

Why I'm comparing dendro is that Dendro has decent defence but it's a paper; Alvatore ends up taking more damage even though its a scissor.


Quote:

Originally Posted by KirovReporting (Post 1664826)
depends on how you see "paper defense"
defense against papers or defense that papers have
cuz only papers have veteran sniper

He mans Veteran Infighter, because the skill icon is a shield blocking the paper icon, hence "paper defense".

KirovReporting 01-09-2012 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bng422 (Post 1664858)
He mans Veteran Infighter, because the skill icon is a shield blocking the paper icon, hence "paper defense".

and you dont know what sarcasm is

Bng422 01-09-2012 07:24 PM

Nope because I'm not a very sarcastic person myself. :3

Zeomn 01-09-2012 07:49 PM

I find that alvatore tends to do pretty well in none oc rooms, people usually don't expect anyone to use it lol...

Kenshiro 01-10-2012 02:01 AM

Alvatore is good for killing the paper GN Arms and WZC which is in turn is good for killing everything else in Pub rooms. The only time Lolvatore gets cockblocked is when there's I-field and Infighter suits around. Some might say fighting in purged form is terribad, well sometimes it is. But I'd rather trade off my anti-flinch for the ability to hide behind buildings and not be bulky. It's a tricky suit really, but I find it nice in both DM and Points.

Chsal 01-10-2012 02:12 AM

Quote:

You forgot to factor in the fact that it is a giant in the first form
Ok. Factor that in. But Alvatore has 4550 range fat beam and 5000 range fangs. So it can easily adopt a campy playstyle like WZC and GNAD. Depending on your teammates, nothing can ever get close...

(WZC is a viable comparison because its practically immobile in snipe mode)

(GNAD too because its similar size to Alvatore)

Quote:

A team of players focus firing it from far
In general, a team of players stomps a single player.

As for shotguns, thats something all non I field MA have to deal with. Doesn't make Alvatore, specifically, fragile. Units have counters. They deal with it. Doesn't make them fragile.

Quote:

Even by speccing him when he has high HP, there's also a pretty huge chance of him dying from it.
Depends on suit. Of course Alvatore is more susceptible to spec, but they have to get close enough to actually spec it first.

Quote:

Its a giant, and once that shield pops and you don't purge you're pretty much good as dead.
In general, suits are pretty close to dieing after taking 8750 damage. A generic S rank with 14500 HP has 5750 HP left. Alvatore has 10250. Alvatore is easier to hit, but you have to hit it twice as much as a generic S rank.

Quote:

Also, a Reborns range sp with skill 2 activated can kill a Alvatore that just spawned
Ribbon's Scheme
"When the unit's health drops below 40%, the unit's attack, defense, and weapon reload rates are increased"

I see nothing regarding SP in there.

And its not exactly fair to be picking a suit with such high SP.

Otherwise everything is fragile because Destiny oneshots everything with SP after it spawns with spec awakening =/...

Quote:

My Zeta's Waverider Crash can almost kill in from the front. I've rammed Andy's SR Dendrobium mode 2 numerous times from the front and it only takes off 1/2 of the hp.
Really? It shouldn't even take down the shield.
1/2 of SRD sounds about right. I reckon it should be doing slightly less than half though. Depends on OC.


So basically Alvatore solves most of its problems by camping. People can't hit you with random shots, specs or shotguns if you're far away.

Kenshiro 01-10-2012 02:16 AM

I throw two boomerangs and prolly 1 pistol shot at it and it's normally shield-less after that. Camping problem solved. Infinite Justice/Susanowo trolls this guy so hard it's not even funny. I don't even fear the antiflinch problem anymore. Anything thrown by a rock in general makes it die.

zgmfx19a 01-10-2012 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chsal (Post 1664975)
Ok. Factor that in. But Alvatore has 4550 range fat beam and 5000 range fangs. So it can easily adopt a campy playstyle like WZC and GNAD. Depending on your teammates, nothing can ever get close...

If you play camp, and the other team don't rush. Pubbies, maybe. Yeah. 13 points? Nope.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Chsal (Post 1664975)
In general, a team of players stomps a single player.

You don't get it. The whole point about it being a giant means it is the ideal target to get focused fire on. MS can generally take cover and etc, but Alvatore? No. You stick out like a sore thumb. Everyone can and will aim at you when you are an easy target to aim at.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Chsal (Post 1664975)
As for shotguns, thats something all non I field MA have to deal with. Doesn't make Alvatore, specifically, fragile. Units have counters. They deal with it. Doesn't make them fragile.

And how many are there? Let's see. There's urm..... Alvatore, the 2 Apsallas, GNAD/E, Zeongs, Kyshatria, Elmeth, Val Varo. More than half are A ranks, which makes it unfair, so we have Alvatore, GNAD/E and Kyshatria. Kyshatria has Fortress EX plus shields. GNAD/E is not dependable any GN-Field, has defense boosting skills, respectable HP, shields on their own, and is not a giant walking target, because they are barely considered as a giant. And oh, they have shields too.

And I haven't even list out the full list of counters that can troll Alvatore.

The whole point of me saying shotguns is because it's so damn easy to land the full blast on it, because of it's size. After you take down it's shields, there's no I-Fields, no Fortress, no Defense up, nothing. You purge. And the cycle repeats - albeit it's harder for them this time, because you can actually dodge.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Chsal (Post 1664975)
Depends on suit. Of course Alvatore is more susceptible to spec, but they have to get close enough to actually spec it first.

Well, if all you play is camping maps, or all you do is to camp with Alvatore, then oh well.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Chsal (Post 1664975)
In general, suits are pretty close to dieing after taking 8750 damage. A generic S rank with 14500 HP has 5750 HP left. Alvatore has 10250. Alvatore is easier to hit, but you have to hit it twice as much as a generic S rank.

No, the point is, Alvatore is frail if you can bypass it's shield. That means spec. That means focus fire to break it. You are basing your assumption that both Alvatore and others are as easily hit, but that is not the case at all. An evaded shot means that the MS eats 0 damage. Did you factor in all the shots that are evaded by the S ranks that are not giant? Do you know what I hate facing the most when I use SR Dendro? MG-ers like DSHC or HAC. They evade your shots using the buildings or maps, and they whittle your HP away with their MGs. And you can't dodge much, because you are a damn giant.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Chsal (Post 1664975)
Otherwise everything is fragile because Destiny oneshots everything with SP after it spawns with spec awakening =/...

But it so happens that Rau Dinn's one of the standard B scis in 13 points.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Chsal (Post 1664975)
So basically Alvatore solves most of its problems by camping. People can't hit you with random shots, specs or shotguns if you're far away.

That applies for all the suits with flashlights. Having a GN-Field or not doesn't matter if you can camp and the opponent can't reach you. I can basically apply what you said to Alvatore to a lot of other S ranks, and they will still offer more than what Alvatore has to offer.

A good Alvatore which I played with in 13 points some time ago rushed with us immediately on the first live to abuse its anti-flinch and shield bulk. It's Alvaron mode is pretty dependent on us suppressing the opponents so that it can evade and fire with ease, and that still did not stop it from eating specs and dying relatively quick as compared to the team, though we did take down the opponent S rank just as fast due to it's help with the early rush. Said player switch out to use SF later when we face tougher opponents because well, it can dodge.

I quite like Alvatore, but its weakness are glaring. It is fragile, and I won't go about saying it isn't just because I like it.

Crimsonred 01-10-2012 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chsal (Post 1664975)
So basically Alvatore solves most of its problems by camping. People can't hit you with random shots, specs or shotguns if you're far away.

You talk like flashlights other than yours don't exist.
And that if you camp your team must camp.
Or the fact that being far away you can see where your enemies are.
Or that nobody would just use hide to get in close to you.
Or even teleport and find a lone camper to kill.

The point is, if you want to not make your team fail, you should never camp so far back nothing hits you.
Sure you live, but your team dies.

Bng422 01-10-2012 06:23 AM

I have no clue where you got your Reborme's Scheme skill translation from, but:

When HP is 40% or lower, ATK +1.5, DEF +3, weapon's reload speed is up by 35%, SP dmg +20%

Only 20%. And Reborn's doesn't have an exceptionally high Range SP stat. Point I'm trying to put across: Alvatore has really low HP.


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