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01-10-2012   #21 (permalink)
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1)Alvatore is good for casual play.
2)Using GN Field to tank shots for allies is not a healthy thing to do.
3)Norris Gouf/DSHC/Most Rocks/Ifield & BeamReflect/Decent or other good scissors suits out there eats Alvatore like cakes.
4)Alvatore that camps is as bad as an Alvatore leading a rush.
(Exception is that you have your allies there to back you up)
5)The rest are pretty much like the posts on the previous page.
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Last edited by Leongz; 01-10-2012 at 07:30 AM.
 
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01-10-2012   #22 (permalink)
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that 20% spec up gave it just the damage boost it needed to kill my pazabi on its 2nd life in death match as soon as it respawned
thats like...what...70% hp?

and pazabi has a 16.8 hp stat
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01-10-2012   #23 (permalink)
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Reborns' skll 2 gives it enough SP boost for it to do massive damage. Not to mention Reborns Cannon's weapons are all long range based, so you're in a pretty dangerous spot if you're trying to use SP.

And at 40%... Reborns tends to die quickly.

I say its a fair tradeoff.
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01-10-2012   #24 (permalink)
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I dont get how alvatore is not fragile, or how your playstyle fixes the issue.

the things shield is not as sturdy as you think it is; there are rocks out there that can break your GN field so fast that you wont know wtf happened, and then kill alvatore with relative ease. By fast, I mean in a second, quite literally, one single second. many melee sp's can also finish alva in a single go.

If you camp in the back, all you do is make yourself prey, as well as useless against infighter suits.

whats with this guy and making non-hightier scissors out to be the best suits evar?
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01-10-2012   #25 (permalink)
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Lolvatore should be a mid-tier scissor at most but not entirely Providence-tier. It has its ups and downs, and mostly dependent on team composition, enemy team composition, player skill, and luck.


It also makes a good SP bomber... well somewhat.
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01-10-2012   #26 (permalink)
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Its not bad, but thats all i think it is
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01-10-2012   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
I throw two boomerangs and prolly 1 pistol shot at it and it's normally shield-less after that
Two booms and a beam or two from IJ generally halves the HP of most scissors you know...

Quote:
Infinite Justice/Susanowo trolls this guy so hard it's not even funny
IJ/Susa troll scissors in general. Alva actually deals with them quite well due to high damage potential, anti-flinch and high mobility, in comparison to other scissors.

Quote:
GNAD/E is not dependable any GN-Field, has defense boosting skills, respectable HP, shields on their own
Actually, GNAD with shields has 19000 damage soaking capacity. Same as Alvatore. BUT, GNAD shields don't fully protect it like GN field does.

Otherwise, yes, GNAD is slightly tankier than Alvatore due to Vet Sniper.

Quote:
After you take down it's shields
Theres still 10k HP left over. And high defense if it chooses to stay in that mode. If you did the equivalent to other suits, IE, deal 8750 damage, most would be left with 4k~HP, and not nearly as much defense.

Quote:
Well, if all you play is camping maps, or all you do is to camp with Alvatore, then oh well.
Enlighten me. Why should Alvatore, with a generic scissors melee, and retardedly good long range weapons, not camp?

Is there any benefit in an Alvatore moving up 2000 units closer, to fire beams that would do exactly the same far away?

Accuracy might be the only reason, but its not that hard to hit with fat beams. And being outside of enemy search range means they won't know you're there until you hit them.

Quote:
No, the point is, Alvatore is frail if you can bypass it's shield. That means spec. That means focus fire to break it.
If you can bypass its shield. Theres two ways. Raw damage, which requires 7000 damage. Or spec, which isn't free either.

Alvatore needs to be specced twice for the specs to pay off. (Unless suits have +spec skills).

Lets say Alvatore gets specced once. It loses 6500~7000 damage or so. It still has about 5k AND ITS SHIELD.

Normal suits that get specced just have 7k.

And when you spec any suit twice it pretty much dies. Maybe +1shot at most.

Quote:
and they will still offer more than what Alvatore has to offer
Are you sure a lot of other S ranks can offer the sheer damage of 1900 fat beams with 21.3ATK, reload up and fangs?

But thats offtopic. Isn't relevant to Alvatore's tanking ability.

Quote:
You talk like flashlights other than yours don't exist.
And that if you camp your team must camp.
Or the fact that being far away you can see where your enemies are.
Or that nobody would just use hide to get in close to you.
Or even teleport and find a lone camper to kill.

The point is, if you want to not make your team fail, you should never camp so far back nothing hits you.
Sure you live, but your team dies.
Other flashlights do exist. But Alvatore can compete with many of them.
You just need to follow your team from a relatively safe position. You don't NEED to never get hit. You just have to avoid specs. Of course its not possible to 100% never get hit by spec, but you can make sure they go through hell to land it.

And talking items.
Alvatore SP downs shit.
Or warps away.

Quote:
I have no clue where you got your Reborme's Scheme skill translation from, but:

When HP is 40% or lower, ATK +1.5, DEF +3, weapon's reload speed is up by 35%, SP dmg +20%

Only 20%. And Reborn's doesn't have an exceptionally high Range SP stat. Point I'm trying to put across: Alvatore has really low HP.
I got it from sdgo wiki. Looks like it has a small error.

And yea. We knew it has low HP. We knew its vulnerable to spec. Nothing new.

Quote:
I dont get how alvatore is not fragile, or how your playstyle fixes the issue.

the things shield is not as sturdy as you think it is; there are rocks out there that can break your GN field so fast that you wont know wtf happened, and then kill alvatore with relative ease. By fast, I mean in a second, quite literally, one single second. many melee sp's can also finish alva in a single go.

If you camp in the back, all you do is make yourself prey, as well as useless against infighter suits.
The shield is exactly as sturdy as I think it is. And what I think is that it has exactly 7000HP and 80% damage reduction. What do YOU think it has?

And of course its possible to break it in 1 second. You can kill suits in 1 second. You just need the right circumstances. But that doesn't mean Alvatore is going to be EZMODE BREAK SHIELD KILL ALVATORE every single time you meet it. Most of the time you won't be able to break Alvatore's shield in 1 second.

And I don't get your point about melee sps. Almost, if not all, all SPs do 6500 base damage. Obviously I haven't looked through every single suit, but I've only ever seen 6500 damage. The only difference in damage comes from damage fluctuation, SP stat and skills.

And finally, one point I realised I forgot to mention.
Alvaaron.
Purging into Alvaaron from a freshly shield-broken Alvatore leaves you with:
HP : 10250
Shields : 5000/70
Damage soaking capacity is 13107 rounded to the nearest whole number.
Not many suits can take 8750 damage, and then end up with still 13k hp left over.

And this time, its small enough to dodge just like every other small S rank.

Not to mention it will STILL TAKE two specs to kill it.

It even comes with a 1500 BR with 21.3 ATK, 25.5 AGI. Reload Up. Its like purging into an almost new NTD after you've already lost half your HP. Except slightly lower HP, but higher damage.

Last edited by Chsal; 01-10-2012 at 06:20 PM.
 
01-10-2012   #28 (permalink)
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If a clip of A rank DSH MGs break the shield then I don't see how much the numbers count.

I have done this multiple times back in the days when I actively used my A rank DSH. Yea, even I can do it.

And honestly, nobody mentioned X3's machine cannons???
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01-10-2012   #29 (permalink)
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But while Alvatore is soaking hits through his shield, you realise your team is free to move about right o:

Scapegoating ><
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01-10-2012   #30 (permalink)
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I meant, I can run up to an alvatore and break its shield in one second as a single rock, even if my team is off in lala land figthing the rest of the team, leaving me 1v1 with the alva. Rather, anyone with a suit selection similar to mine, not me.

Another thing to note is that people who slash alvatore can chain twice as many hits on the thing as usual.

honestly, if you think that the shield does it alot of good, i'd argue that it leads to overconfidence and the size of the MS does not have good synergy with its low hp.

You are assuming that it takes 2 specs from full hp. Of course it will not have full hp, especially in DM, it doesn't even spawn with that much on its second life.

I mentioned melee spec because that spec generically has higher damage than ranged spec. Any suit with both typically has a sp stat of ~3 higher with the mode with melee spec.

Your calculation is off btw. you failed to take into account the following

1. you already take damage before you purge
2. you have lower hp because purge mode is like that for alva

@ retune, yes, but its not wise to tank with the thing >:

If you die, your team is 3v4 = not good
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Last edited by Ao; 01-10-2012 at 07:32 PM.
 
01-10-2012   #31 (permalink)
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Ao, I cannot think of a suit that can break its shield in 1 second* (damn you iPad autocorrect!). Don't exaggerate too much.

Seravee's shield is weaker than Alvatore's; it takes 2 stun guns from my OCEX Sinanju to break its shield.

Alvatore's has more HO, I doubt you can do it in less than one second.

And we don't mention X-3 cause most of us has not met the hell that X-3 brings.
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Last edited by Bng422; 01-10-2012 at 07:34 PM.
 
01-10-2012   #32 (permalink)
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Susanowo

run to its back, tripunisher + weapon 1

1.2 x (2 x (2050 + 3000))

12120 damage

even if you put attack and defense calculations into that, it will still deal over the required amount to break alva's shield.

sure, the end of the weapon 1 animation might extend over a second, but the damage should be dealt within 1 second.
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01-10-2012   #33 (permalink)
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Shields do not take in account of crits or not.

And it blocks a percentage of your attacks. You're missing parts of your calculations.
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01-10-2012   #34 (permalink)
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Of course they do, why do you think you take normal damage when hyper hammer (with shield still equiped) is shot in the back?

EDIT: and breaks faster
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01-10-2012   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chsal


Enlighten me. Why should Alvatore, with a generic scissors melee, and retardedly good long range weapons, not camp?

Is there any benefit in an Alvatore moving up 2000 units closer, to fire beams that would do exactly the same far away?

Accuracy might be the only reason, but its not that hard to hit with fat beams. And being outside of enemy search range means they won't know you're there until you hit them.
Gonna go a bit off topic here but this annoys me to no end.

1) there are not many situations in which the ideal strategy is to camp.
2) Not camping does not automatically equal rushing. There is a happy medium.
3) if you stay too far back, due to the different positions your enemy takes you have a limited target selection. This leads to sub-optimal damage output as you might limit your choices to some tanky rock or something with ifield instead of that juicy paper. Generally speaking (and especially true of a beam dependent suit) you should always be moving looking for a better position, a better angle while balancing the increased risk of exposing yourself to enemy rocks. A static shooter is one where the beam source is predictable and thus easier to take cover against.
4) Just so this entire reply isn't off topic; Everytime I see alvatore I think of cooking yellow lobster or crab because whatever the numbers say, the fact that it's big, slow and generally too dependent on its shield makes it a easy target that tends to die quickly to any sort of real effort to kill it.

Last edited by Jaen; 01-10-2012 at 08:05 PM.
 
01-10-2012   #36 (permalink)
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Just sayin'

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01-10-2012   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ao
Of course they do, why do you think you take normal damage when hyper hammer (with shield still equiped) is shot in the back?

EDIT: and breaks faster
Ao, you seriously think so?

GN Fields and breakable I-Fields surround the entire mobile suit.

You don't deal extra damage for shootng it in the back; what's the point of having a 360 surround field then?

And lol, Ao. You're comparing a physical shield with an actual field barrier.
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Last edited by Bng422; 01-10-2012 at 09:31 PM.
 
01-10-2012   #38 (permalink)
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EDIT: testing hold on

o.o"
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01-10-2012   #39 (permalink)
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All you need is logic.

Think about what I said, the surrounding part if you don't comprehend.

Oh, and here's your correct calculation:

1.2 x (0.80(2050 + 3000))

= 4848.

Now stop with your "I'm always right" aka Jesus Yamato cosplay.
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Last edited by Bng422; 01-10-2012 at 09:41 PM.
 
01-10-2012   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bng422

You don't deal extra damage for shootng it in the back; what's the point of having a 360 surround field then?
Just an example: ssnw stand at the back of X2, after 1sec 70%Hp of X2 gone. While Alvatore still has the chance to escape with more Hp and purge for another barrier.

Edit: ssnw full atk need 2 hits of w2 to break alvatore shield from the back, while it take 3 hits of w2 1 hit of w3 from the front.

Last edited by mrlon3lyvn; 01-10-2012 at 10:09 PM.
 

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