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01-13-2012   #221 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon
No, play Rock, since Chsal claims Alvatore is good dealing with them.
wow......he actually said that shit...ok then, AR Giros it is
 
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01-13-2012   #222 (permalink)
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Lol I like how challenging me apparently will prove Alvatore isn't tanky.

Quote:
I've been trying to say that alvatores fat, clunky ass makes it less survivable, and the effect outweighs having a GN field.
But when it purges it ends up with 15k and isn't fat or clunky.

Quote:
get your shit right. we didnt say it cant take damage, we said that it cant tank because of its bulk and relative clunkiness.
I'm pretty sure this is what you guys said.

Quote:
Some might think that it’s a tanky scissors for its defense stat + GN Field, guess what, you dead wrong. After that GN Field breaks, your defenses goes down like crazy. Its like the 24.3 defense is cut in half.
There isn't actually anything in there about Alvatore's bulk, except for dodging SP. Instead, it talks about defense being cut in half, which doesn't actually happen.

Quote:
No, play Rock, since Chsal claims Alvatore is good dealing with them.
Better than other scissors on average.
 
01-13-2012   #223 (permalink)
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Quote:
There isn't actually anything in there about Alvatore's bulk, except for dodging SP. Instead, it talks about defense being cut in half, which doesn't actually happen.
When I said defenses I meant its survivability not the stat.
The 24.3 cutting in half was a simile, used to emphasize how your defenses fall rapidly after GN Field breaks.
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01-13-2012   #224 (permalink)
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the gn field is part of the bulk
so if the shield breaks, you practically lose more than half of your defense
24.3 defense seems like a lot?
mansa has 25.5 def iirc, and even that doesnt seem like much in practice
and with that much hp, alvatore cant take much hits
defense without a hp stat to complement it is near useless
unless you are claiming hp has no relevance to taking hits in general, and if you are, id call you a complete idiot

and no, there are plenty of scissors who can handle rocks much better than alva does
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Last edited by KirovReporting; 01-13-2012 at 08:19 PM.
 
01-13-2012   #225 (permalink)
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If this ever takes place, can I join with DSHC? :3
 
01-13-2012   #226 (permalink)
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Let me in; I has a lolilauncher :3
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01-13-2012   #227 (permalink)
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Should we turn this to 6v6? or a 11v1 in FFA mode...
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01-13-2012   #228 (permalink)
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11v1 FFA

even if everyone else uses no skill Training Zaku and he uses EX alvatore

that would still be unfair.
 
01-13-2012   #229 (permalink)
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I will take one more swing at this even though I know its bound to fail.

Your whole working theory about how alvatore works is based off of numbers. The whole theory rides on the assumption that numbers accurately represent, in its entirety, a suit's peformance (sans player skill).


So let me ask you this. Based on the numbers from olgame, please present a numerical or otherwise quantifiable effect n on how much increased damage the suit will take due to its increased sized and imobility when firing.

Take n as a base and proceed to calculate numerical or otherwise quantifiable damage reduction effect based solely on having a high boost pool.

Then, present numerically, on average the time the suit spends in melee multiplied by the numerical effect anti-flinch has on reducing damage taken in melee by flinching the opponent.


And the list goes on.


My point is, much of the arguments you are making are conjectures using the same non-numerical basis that you are so quick to criticize others for. The biggest difference then?

The theory of your opponents are based on in game experience, tested and refined over a long period of time and multiple battles. The experience transforms the disjoint and discrete dots of stats (which you seem to hold in high regard) into a coherent image that presents a far more complete picture of what a suit can and can not do. In other words, while they may not know how to write out the equation above, they have an implicit understanding of it.

Your theories...well you don't own the suit...to keep the analogy, you keep screaming the group of dots looks like a tank when everyone else who has connected the dots is telling you the picture is of paperclip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chsal
Lol I like how challenging me apparently will prove Alvatore isn't tanky.



But when it purges it ends up with 15k and isn't fat or clunky.



I'm pretty sure this is what you guys said.



There isn't actually anything in there about Alvatore's bulk, except for dodging SP. Instead, it talks about defense being cut in half, which doesn't actually happen.


Better than other scissors on average.

Last edited by Jaen; 01-13-2012 at 08:48 PM.
 
01-13-2012   #230 (permalink)
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Did you forget about yesterday?

My S Zeta didn't have much trouble fighting off all types. I can tell you a few more scissors that can fight off rocks better than Alvatore.

Sinanju? Speed hax. X-2? Melee cockblock. V2AB? He can do everything.

Numbers do matter. Things like example X-2's rifle being 1400 while S Zeta's being 1300 matter. But does that automatically make S Zeta inferior?

You can't just base everything on numbers man.
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01-13-2012   #231 (permalink)
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your hax-ex'd sinanju?
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01-13-2012   #232 (permalink)
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Yes. The one that used the glitch. Along with my IJ.
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01-13-2012   #233 (permalink)
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dat S Zeta

Q__Q

Take out >50% of F91 HP with Waverider while trying to melee you
 
01-13-2012   #234 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chsal
Lol I like how challenging me apparently will prove Alvatore isn't tanky.
Well I would like to stress that you're over-glorifying this particular suit. There's only one way to find out right? Use it for yourself and against ANY one of us who is willing to test out your theories for you. We'll have rocks, papers, and even scissors and you're free to "deal" with us easily as how Alvatore would deal with an Njammer suit or even just an ordinary inferior than Alejandro Corner's masterpiece.

He'll I'd even use an Exia for this event just for you. I hate how you keep making us go into circles while ineffectively avoiding our offer to a match. It is the only way you can prove yourself right, whether its 1 v 1 or a team game.

Alvatore can tank
No it cannot
Yes it can
It's a GN field, the tankiness goes away with it
But I can purge
I can deal with rocks ez, like Njammers and Susanowo
It has the largest boost pool evar, it can kill rocks and isn't afraid of anything
Lets test it out
Moregraphs.jpg
He doesn't even have an Alvatore



So are we all down for this or what?
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01-13-2012   #235 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chsal
Lol I like how challenging me apparently will prove Alvatore isn't tanky.

More like the stupid crap you said, blame yourself for being retarded.

But when it purges it ends up with 15k and isn't fat or clunky.

Just going to say, numbers and stats are reference. Even with purge it has a mediocre melee and a beam rifle.

I'm pretty sure this is what you guys said.

SP, solved.

There isn't actually anything in there about Alvatore's bulk, except for dodging SP. Instead, it talks about defense being cut in half, which doesn't actually happen.

It's fat, it moves slow. It's defense greatly decreases, so it becomes easier to melt.

Better than other scissors on average.

Go **** yourself, same thing Kirov said.
Yes I replied to you and screw the pyramid you pulled from a Wikia, you would be at the bottom of the list because you don't even know what you're talking about. In case you don't know, add another layer to that Pyramid, "Assumption Logic", specifically for you.
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01-13-2012   #236 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bng422
Did you forget about yesterday?

My S Zeta didn't have much trouble fighting off all types. I can tell you a few more scissors that can fight off rocks better than Alvatore.

Sinanju? Speed hax. X-2? Melee cockblock. V2AB? He can do everything.
You forgot Sazabi? 11 hit melee is awsum+speed hax :<
FAZZ does fine too? Huge ass zbs is huge
S/Freedom? his inf boost+rail spam
S The O? StunFeg+Beast Melee
NTD? Ranger, nuff said
Akatsuki? Melee is not bad... no srsly + w3 delay lets you troll rocks
SRudim? maybe? but it has stun+ranger so i assume it does pretty well

I think i have some left, lemme check the numbers first

Last edited by StrykerX; 01-13-2012 at 09:11 PM.
 
01-13-2012   #237 (permalink)
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I try not to give opinions on suits I don't own or play much.
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01-13-2012   #238 (permalink)
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i do give opinions on suits i dont have but faced and handled(or tried to handle) about 200+ rounds(not that i used the same suit every time)

the "victim's" point of view works too you know
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01-13-2012   #239 (permalink)
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I guess.

But I'm more of the type to believe in things only when I try it myself.
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01-13-2012   #240 (permalink)
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Yeah, seeing how increasingly difficult it is to handle an un nerfed 007G for the first few rounds gives a good estimate of its abilities, even without presenting the numbers at all. And then we all get accustomed to fighting that particular suit, which solidifies our experience with the machine even if we don't own it.

But nothing beats having played the suits for yourself. Only then can we completely formulate something valid and not just something based on a few variables.
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