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07-01-2011   #81 (permalink)
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Guess I'll elaborate a little. Since I wasn't being very objective when I wrote it and i'll apologize for the attitude.

I am not trying to dis you on this but what your not realizing is that your team setup even with high prize, is a barrier to entry.

Its like playing 00R OCEX c3 HP, OC def, ex Def vs a training gm without any skill. Where is the fun or point in that? I know you work hard, and deserve every right to use whatever suits you want. But as said. The above scenario. Where is the fun in that?

Scenario 1
Let say if they were to get players from KR, they would start a new account. Try to roll the proper suit/make proper S rank. Leveling them up to the expectation of OC 5.
How long does that take? The KR players isn't going to do this for any prizes. Maybe for fun. But most suits readily available wouldn't be very competitive to start off. It would be more of a cannon fodder.

So Scenario 2
Question is, how many "dedicated" player are there, that will make effort and have the time to train all their suit to OC 5? Especially an S rank or atleast an A rank. Most player that are on, are more on for casual play. Most old and current clan member that I know still plays very casually. They are on to try out new suits. Maybe get to OC2 or 3. And then stop. They don't play everyday trying to grind their ass off. Nor do they spend on cellies to level up their suits.

So when they sees all the pretty OC Ex, OC 6s, basically they gave up already. What is the point? Most doesn't even have the proper suit to begin with.
And even worst, last time I was with kira, he still doesn't know how to curve missiles. Or some random guy that has alot of OCEX S ranks and lost both lives under 30sec.

So everything takes time, it isn't something, oh there is a tourny, I'll get my skill/suit to top notch in a week. It doesn't work that way. It also has to do with the player themselves whether they want to just enjoy this casual game, or whether they want to play competitively. And to be competitive, skill usually are earned over time, I would say about a year roughly for average game play.

But those that truly wants to play competitively and aims to be competitively is a tiny population from what I can see. Its roughly about 4 teams. So thats about 12 minutes and everything should be over.

This is something that no matter how good the prize, how many tourny you or anyone hold, cannot change. It is how the current state is. You can't suddenly get people that purely play casually to suddenly gear up.

This is the issue I am trying to inform you, and it isn't about the prizes. Prizes only adds people that think they can AFK for it and freeload. So it ends up as 00R OCEX vs trainer GM. And the result is pretty clear.

I am not trying to dis-encourage you from hosting a tourny. But when it doesn't work as it is intended, you should be expect such outcome and see what else you can do that can improve the experience so that it wouldn't turn out to be so bad.
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Last edited by weissritter; 07-01-2011 at 06:49 PM.
 
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07-01-2011   #82 (permalink)
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Weiss is pretty much right.

When I showed interest in the tournament and tried to get some people out of the KR community to get interested, pretty much it was a matter of two excuses.

1- I don't feel like making a TW account to participate.
2- I don't feel like trying to grind up suits to participate. Or I feel that the current level of suits I possess could not hope to possibly compete with OC 5 Dynames ARs or other such top level competitive suits.

It's just a lot of hassle to get things primed, especially when the server's cream of the crop bands together. When 2-3 of the best players band up (which is natural) people will feel intimidated or write themselves off as having no chance.

I'll be honest in that I don't play TW much, but during the times I am on, there seems to be at least 3 or 4 people on out of the short list I've added on. It'd almost be more efficient to do what the English KR community does, and instead arrange for nightly or semi-nightly English player rooms to just have fun and work on their game. Sure there will be those that get angry at others and overreact (lord knows we have those all over the place in KR), but at the same time others will take that criticism and attempt to better themselves and not become liabilities.

Last edited by Vandol; 07-01-2011 at 09:22 PM.
 
07-01-2011   #83 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zgmfx19a
My aim is to hold something that will make GGFTW improve, whether it is OCing of suits, training of teamwork, or if you like, just enjoying playing 13 points against each other in a more competitive setting. Everyone can join the tournament regardless of their clans, and improve together.

Believe me, if I can hold 13 point matches weekly and get enough teams to join without having the need to offer prizes, I will go through the trouble of handling all the administrative work and planning weekly, perhaps even make it a league.

You always see players here talking about, you know, wanting to improve, wanting to play competitively, etc etc. Especially on the front page of clan threads. But what we are seeing here is just the opposite.

I thought that having more 13 point tourneys will be a good incentive to get the community to play competitively together, and learn from the games we had with each other. I had even set the games to be best out of 5, so that we can rack up more games during the tourney to learn more about how the other team plays.

I stand to gain nothing from hosting the tournament. And like you had said, I can do the whatever you had suggested, without even having to spend a single cent. But I offered some small prizes, despite having limited cash resources, in hope that people will want to join it. No matter what, those cash will be going out to someone, even if my team manages to win.

I don't really see your point about OC. I had started out the first GGFTW 13-point tourney with an OC5 CR Dog as my only OC5ed competitive-viable suit. I had much more options now, because I put in time and effort to OC the suits that I want (if people still remember, my aim of having 1 OC5 competitive suit for each class and rank). OC5, OC6 and OCEX are not something exclusive to our team - check the accomplishments thread. There is not too much difference between OC6 and OCEX, while OC5 should be playable at the very least. Also, Shift had his account banned, but being a University student who only have his weekends free, he is aiming for an OC5 Ball-K with his new account, and the last I checked, it should already be OC3 one week ago.

And as for my team, it's not like we don't put in effort into every competition which we joined. We had planned for training nights to improve our teamwork, and we discussed what suits to use as a team, so that I can try to OC my suits as high as possible. Example, during the second tournament, my MRLS hit OC6 only the night before the tournament after repeated grindings. At the very least, for me, I give my all in the tournaments that I joined. We put in effort to try to win.



tl;dr. I am disappointed with the attitudes, and not because 'boohoo no team to pwnzzz'. If everyone puts in efforts to play in the 13 points tournaments, the issues you had raised would not be that much of a problem.
"orz

I know how you feel Nek0, I just went through smtg similar with MARZ, and I have to agree with weiss + vandol in saying that the english community is well, just not competitive enough, we cant do too much about it besides trying to train people who are willing

This might help with how discouraged you are at the moment: bng and I trained our MS from no OC to OC5 for this tourney. In fact, bng started from scratch (I started from aced)
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07-01-2011   #84 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AoSora
"orz

I know how you feel Nek0, I just went through smtg similar with MARZ, and I have to agree with weiss + vandol in saying that the english community is well, just not competitive enough, we cant do too much about it besides trying to train people who are willing

This might help with how discouraged you are at the moment: bng and I trained our MS from no OC to OC5 for this tourney. In fact, bng started from scratch (I started from aced)
Mhm, capped a MLRS with 8k~ and trained him from scratch to OC5 in a day... sadly we couldn't find our 4th
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07-01-2011   #85 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandol
Weiss is pretty much right.

When I showed interest in the tournament and tried to get some people out of the KR community to get interested, pretty much it was a matter of two excuses.

1- I don't feel like making a TW account to participate.
2- I don't feel like trying to grind up suits to participate. Or I feel that the current level of suits I possess could not hope to possibly compete with OC 5 Dynames ARs or other such top level competitive suits.

It's just a lot of hassle to get things primed, especially when the server's cream of the crop bands together. When 2-3 of the best players band up (which is natural) people will feel intimidated or write themselves off as having no chance.

I'll be honest in that I don't play TW much, but during the times I am on, there seems to be at least 3 or 4 people on out of the short list I've added on. It'd almost be more efficient to do what the English KR community does, and instead arrange for nightly or semi-nightly English player rooms to just have fun and work on their game. Sure there will be those that get angry at others and overreact (lord knows we have those all over the place in KR), but at the same time others will take that criticism and attempt to better themselves and not become liabilities.
I am not that naive to be expecting KR or HK players to join. Truth to be told, if something similar is held in KR or HK, I'll find it a hassle to play there as well.

But honestly, we have a decently huge TW player base here. What I am saying about is the TW community though. I am sorry if I was not clear about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weissritter
I am not trying to dis-encourage you from hosting a tourny. But when it doesn't work as it is intended, you should be expect such outcome and see what else you can do that can improve the experience so that it wouldn't turn out to be so bad.
I did expect it, but I still can't help but be disappointed.



@AoSora & Bng422

That's nice. Glad to see people like that still around.
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Last edited by zgmfx19a; 07-01-2011 at 09:29 PM.
 
07-01-2011   #86 (permalink)
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I would love to give an excuse for not participating, but I won't.
I shall speak on behalf of HellFall.
My clan, I won't stop them from joining such tourneys but I will also not encourage them.

Some of them couldn't even get their basics right. Should they play with a team that are prepared or well-prepared, they will not even stand a chance.
You know, you saw them in action yesterday ... lol.

Next, a tournament with NO OC restrictions will most likely make them want to OC their suits badly in order to get themselves prepared for the tourney. However, mostly in my clan practice/trainings I hope for the best from them without relying on OCed suits. I encourage them to not use OCed suits but should they participate in tourneys against highly OCed suits, having higher OCed suits will definitely be mandatory.

Despite all that, you hosting the tourney to help others to improve is a good deed and understandable. From my defeat in one of your previous tourneys last time, I was even more determined to play better/improve. Back then, I didn't know how to position my self and that probably cost Blizt and Weis the game. The best part about a tourney is that, if you GET DEFEATED BADLY, YOU WILL RAGE AND ASK WHY?!HOW?! and such, after that, that "feeling" comes, the player might change. Yes, that feeling is called Determination. (which I do think some of the TW players in ggFTW do lack)

Needless to say, I just don't think that some of us (especially my clan) is ready yet. Weis is correct as well about both Casual/Dedicated players and skills being earned over time.
(though this only applies if the player constantly practice/tries to improve)

Thus, HellFall didn't participate in the tourney.
 
07-01-2011   #87 (permalink)
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I would think that a no OC tourney would be nicer, but it's also lacking in that anybody can just use anything and not play seriously......
So many problems....
 
07-08-2011   #88 (permalink)
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er.....i actually think trainer suits are great for getting basic instincts right. Perhaps not skills, per se, which is impossible on slow and weak trainers, but using trainers forces you to REALLY notice things like boost, weapons range and enemy positions as your suit lacks the ability to make up for lack of skills with hax power.
Also, trainers, even OC'd, aren't that great, so it's okay to use them in tourneys with OC.
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07-08-2011   #89 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehprognoob
er.....i actually think trainer suits are great for getting basic instincts right. Perhaps not skills, per se, which is impossible on slow and weak trainers, but using trainers forces you to REALLY notice things like boost, weapons range and enemy positions as your suit lacks the ability to make up for lack of skills with hax power.
Also, trainers, even OC'd, aren't that great, so it's okay to use them in tourneys with OC.
The thing is, there is a much better suit to replace it anyways.
 
07-11-2011   #90 (permalink)
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me and my friends were thinking of joining but we have like 3 OC5 suits between 7 of us (the rest are either not leveled up enough or not good competition suits, we find it hard to make balanced teams)
I guess we are casual players, some of us only play a few hours a week and we mostly play pubs so understandably it takes us quite a while to train. We tried to organize teams for the fun in the sun tourney about a month back but we never actually got around to training together and kinda gave up (some of the others were right in that intimidation factor, my bunch are all basically ticks/tick+star ranks and we all QQ'd when we saw the red and blue shields)

but Im hoping that perhaps in the future when me and my friends have competitive OC suits and we have gotten better that we will join tourneys then ^.^
 
07-11-2011   #91 (permalink)
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Yea... It was cause we couldn't really get the team together when the tournament started >.<.

And mind you we don't have very good OC5s either...

Justice and two Destinys. Lol. (I think R or his bro might be on OC4 or something. Dunno).

Also, the whole 13 point thing is also really discouraging. I understand its to balance the teams somewhat, but it actually hinders "noobs" like my group of friends and me more than it helps.

It forces us NOT to use the S ranks we've spent our meagre SDGO lives grinding for, and instead use random crap we barely have all the skills on.

Then again I wouldn't like to get raped by OC6+ S ranks X.x.

But yea as above I would be keen in participating, but I just feel theres just too much stuff preventing me.
 
07-11-2011   #92 (permalink)
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Guys, drop it already.
Tourney cancelled a long time ago, no point dragging this thread any further.
 
07-13-2011   #93 (permalink)
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too bad the tourney ended
maybe nexttime
 
07-13-2011   #94 (permalink)
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Requesting a lock for this thread so that random posts dont appear it in again
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