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05-30-2009   #1 (permalink)
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Default Primadonna sucks in GvG

Mini rant, but I QQ over how useless Primas have become in GvG.

1. Lack of any ranged skills to use. Hi tetras while we use 2-step Combo. Hi multiple mines before I even reach my target. And no, Siren and Galder Throw does not count.
2. Fail hit rate of skunk. How to kill guarded Powers, vanishing Foxes, curing Mages if skunk fails?
3. Fail hit rate of Charm Wink, and the zomg pwnzor casting time. If the hit rate is good, hey, I have no problems sacrificing myself and eat the tetra and get the mage winked. But I cast Wink, I fail and I eat tetra. Not fun.

Basically, there are only 2 chars I can think of that can possibly fail more. Pure Lions, and pure buffs. And even then, pure buffs can prolly kill more with their "ranged" moves.

I QQ.
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05-30-2009   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zgmfx09a
Mini rant, but I QQ over how useless Primas have become in GvG.

1. Lack of any ranged skills to use. Hi tetras while we use 2-step Combo. Hi multiple mines before I even reach my target. And no, Siren and Galder Throw does not count.
2. Fail hit rate of skunk. How to kill guarded Powers, vanishing Foxes, curing Mages if skunk fails?
3. Fail hit rate of Charm Wink, and the zomg pwnzor casting time. If the hit rate is good, hey, I have no problems sacrificing myself and eat the tetra and get the mage winked. But I cast Wink, I fail and I eat tetra. Not fun.

Basically, there are only 2 chars I can think of that can possibly fail more. Pure Lions, and pure buffs. And even then, pure buffs can prolly kill more with their "ranged" moves.

I QQ.
Before the HV Patch, I can probably sit in the middle of PvP for 15 minutes, watching "Misses" appear over my head.

But now that HV is nerfed, I can't do that anymore. The solution? Quit Trickster
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05-30-2009   #3 (permalink)
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Kitties got a sprint to make up for their lack of range, I've gotten brtually pwned by a Duke who abused Siren to its fullest. Primas aren't that great, but they are usable unlike Lions..
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05-30-2009   #4 (permalink)
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What's all this I hear about Lions sucking I thought they were the gods of trickster

Or is it only the gods of PvM?
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05-30-2009   #5 (permalink)
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Actually it isnt the Prima's That suck Its the FAIL HV NERF that ntreev Still ignores >_>. i remember fighting Prima's before hv was nerfed theyre hella scary ._.;
 
05-30-2009   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoohChan
Actually it isnt the Prima's That suck Its the FAIL HV NERF that ntreev Still ignores >_>. i remember fighting Prima's before hv was nerfed theyre hella scary ._.;
I'm still hella scary with the HV nerf... Just not as scary as before the HV neft :c

/Pure HV 8D
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05-30-2009   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drarin
What's all this I hear about Lions sucking I thought they were the gods of trickster

Or is it only the gods of PvM?

Lions have been easy one-two hit kills in GvG for a very long time now, mine hasnt stepped foot in gvg for probably near a year. And PvP, about the only thing they can kill anymore are other lions, and crappy mages. Also been such for a while, mostly due to stat nerfs.
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05-30-2009   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffee
Kitties got a sprint to make up for their lack of range, I've gotten brtually pwned by a Duke who abused Siren to its fullest. Primas aren't that great, but they are usable unlike Lions..
kittys don't come in with a built-in sprint.
Neko,don't Q_Q, <3 /divertsyourattentiontocoonboxes 8D
 
05-30-2009   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drarin
What's all this I hear about Lions sucking I thought they were the gods of trickster

Or is it only the gods of PvM?
Ever since the evasion nerf, Lions haven't been able to stockpile HV gear for dodging survival while other classes can stockpile HV solely for gun defense (though they probably won't since they can one-shot with damage and HP gear on). Scientists haven't really seen any of their omg skills since 3rd Job first came out, and Cyber Hunters would have to start throwing shurikens if they really want to benefit from the slew of hybrid new 2nd Job skill potential. Then, to top it all off, LK got nerfed. Stockpiling LK is now pointless for dealing with magic. With 1300 LK, someone with 50 will still probably land all their arrows on you, and likewise, that 50 LK person will probably still have a good chance of dodging other magic attacks. This essentially means that Champions can now hit anything in the game without much need for AC or LK gear for their big-hitters. Lions, however, still have to play the LK game because gun evasion and hit rates remain the same.

Also, Wind Sheep are more or less the gods of PvM (training) whereas Bunnies are now the gods of PvM (bossing).

So yeah, Lions have (no pun intended) been biting the bullet to no avail for a long time now. Ironic, I know.

On-Topic: Never mind Primas (ie. the class in general). I've got more concern for stat builds. Poor WT Foxes and poor DP Charms. As it stands, there's no gear for the former and no definitive 3rd Job path for the latter.
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05-30-2009   #10 (permalink)
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Most Charms fail in GvG, to be honest. But it really depends on who you are fighting.

Primadonna: Are mage killers. And can be a Sense/Charm killer.
Duke/Diva: Well.. They can pretty much kill all types, even Power types with Guard, if they're good enough.
Gambler: Can kill all, too. Because of Full House. But if they get caught by a Power Type, or any type for that matter (even Magic types if you fail to recast MR, which goes for all Charms), they're dead.

So yes, I see your point. Out of all the Charms, Primadonna's fail the most in GvG.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lol
trickster's pvp died already.
Wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Rook
Before the HV Patch, I can probably sit in the middle of PvP for 15 minutes, watching "Misses" appear over my head.
This is a GvG rant, not PvP. They're two different things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Rook
But now that HV is nerfed, I can't do that anymore.
You can still do that, just not as much as you could before the nerf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Rook
The solution? Quit Trickster
If i had a dollar for everytime i heard that..

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoohChan
theyre hella scary ._.;
They still are/can be. Just, people fail to use them correctly.
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Last edited by R; 06-01-2009 at 10:33 PM. Reason: Typo. Two typos.
 
05-30-2009   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
They still are/can be. Just, people fail to use them currectly.
Oh i have to agree with that . XD
 
05-30-2009   #12 (permalink)
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I'm glad that they din't remove the permaskunk glitch though... Apparently it still works (I've tried it during the event; chained till 27 before I screwed up my timing and broke the combo)
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05-30-2009   #13 (permalink)
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I find Primadonnas do just fine in GvG, it just depends on your team mates sometimes...
Like a Priest that can cast oath or a gambler that uses body guard, it helps you survive better so you can run in and wink the mage.
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05-31-2009   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffee
Kitties got a sprint to make up for their lack of range, I've gotten brtually pwned by a Duke who abused Siren to its fullest. Primas aren't that great, but they are usable unlike Lions..
Cats don't come with sprints. And It's not like sprints are exclusive to cats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoohChan
Actually it isnt the Prima's That suck Its the FAIL HV NERF that ntreev Still ignores >_>. i remember fighting Prima's before hv was nerfed theyre hella scary ._.;
This. My Prima still do decently well in PvP. /kicks HV nerf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikisaurus
kittys don't come in with a built-in sprint.
Neko,don't Q_Q, <3 /divertsyourattentiontocoonboxes 8D
Lacked the hat atm. xD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuutsu
Most Charms fail in GvG, to be honest. But it really depends on who you are fighting.

Primadonna: Are mage killers. And can be a Sense/Charm killer.
Duke/Diva: Well.. They can pretty much kill all types, even Power types with Guard, if they're good enough.
Gambler: Can kill all, too. Because of Full House. But if they get caught by a Power Type, or any type for that matter (even Magic types if you fail to recast MR, which goes for all Charms), they're dead.

So yes, I see your point. Out of all the Charms, Primadonna's fail the most in GvG.


They still are/can be. Just, people fail to use them currectly.
Well, if you compare Primas to similarly haxxed Buns, Mages etc, they will fail... Lol. Of course with the correct hax, all chars can be decent. Mage killers? Most mages are Light Mages, with pre-casted cure for skunk. Unless you wink them, and their team-mate does nothing, you can only dent them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slushies
I find Primadonnas do just fine in GvG, it just depends on your team mates sometimes...
Like a Priest that can cast oath or a gambler that uses body guard, it helps you survive better so you can run in and wink the mage.
Even with oath, we still can't stand a full fledge Tetra... Dx
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05-31-2009   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zgmfx09a
Cats don't come with sprints. And It's not like sprints are exclusive to cats.



This. My Prima still do decently well in PvP. /kicks HV nerf



Lacked the hat atm. xD



Well, if you compare Primas to similarly haxxed Buns, Mages etc, they will fail... Lol. Of course with the correct hax, all chars can be decent. Mage killers? Most mages are Light Mages, with pre-casted cure for skunk. Unless you wink them, and their team-mate does nothing, you can only dent them.



Even with oath, we still can't stand a full fledge Tetra... Dx
Tetra?
Even though its not really often, but tetra still does its usual misses on me.
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05-31-2009   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Rook
Tetra?
Even though its not really often, but tetra still does its usual misses on me.
GvG is 100% hit... meaning you eat every single shyt they dish @ you.

PvP wise, my Prima can handle it... It's the HV nerf in GvG that makes those Tetras and Mines hax.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Rook
I'm glad that they din't remove the permaskunk glitch though... Apparently it still works (I've tried it during the event; chained till 27 before I screwed up my timing and broke the combo)
Teach me this shyt pls. ROFL.
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Last edited by zgmfx19a; 05-31-2009 at 07:54 AM.
 
05-31-2009   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zgmfx09a
Well, if you compare Primas to similarly haxxed Buns, Mages etc, they will fail... Lol.
Not always true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgmfx09a
Mage killers? Most mages are Light Mages, with pre-casted cure for skunk. Unless you wink them, and their team-mate does nothing, you can only dent them.

You're forgetting that Primadonna's have three skills (Skunk Pouch, Deadly Funky, Wink) that will leave a Magic Type useless, for at least 12 seconds. Priests (Witches don't have it) only have one skill that can cure Wink, which is Med. Cure, and can also cure both skunks. Basic Healing is another skill Light Mages have, it can cure both skunks.

Assuming you're fighting a Priest.. This is what a Primadonna should do:

Wink him, making him cure it. While he is curing Wink, you'd use Deadly Funky. Depending on how good this Priest is, he may or may not switch to Basic Healing in time. But if he does cure DF, you still have Skunk Pouch left, and both his curing skills are on cooldown. And assuming SP hits, 2-Hit Combo should be able to one hit SoH in GvG, if not, then 2-Hit Combo + Volley Kick should do it. Then just Siren Song him afterwards, or wait for VK to cooldown. <--There you go? A dead priest. This can also be done in PvP.

And if you are fighting a Witch:

Well, pretty much the same as above but, since Witches only have Basic Healing to cure either of the Skunks.. You'd just use DF, they cure it, then you use SP. And there, dead Witch. But of course, assuming the skunk(s) hit. If they don't, you always have Wink to fall back on.. assuming it hits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Rook
I'm glad that they din't remove the permaskunk glitch though... Apparently it still works (I've tried it during the event; chained till 27 before I screwed up my timing and broke the combo)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zgmfx09a
Teach me this shyt pls. ROFL.
Oh god no, please do not announce it to the public. Send a PM instead.. We don't need anymore glitchers.
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Last edited by R; 05-31-2009 at 01:18 PM.
 
05-31-2009   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuutsu
Not always true.
Well, I know there is skunk, but skunk does take some casting time. In that space, Buns will usually tetra you to death...

Without skunk, no contest.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuutsu
You're forgetting that Primadonna's have three skills (Skunk Pouch, Deadly Funky, Wink) that will leave a Magic Type useless, for at least 12 seconds. Priests (Witches don't have it) only have one skill that can cure Wink, which is Med. Cure, and can also cure both skunks. Basic Healing is another skill Light Mages have, it can cure both skunks.

Assuming you're fighting a Priest.. This is what a Primadonna should do:

Wink him, making him cure it. While he is curing Wink, you'd use Deadly Funky. Depending on how good this Priest is, he may or may not switch to Basic Healing in time. But if he does cure DF, you still have Skunk Pouch left, and both his curing skills are on cooldown. And assuming SP hits, 2-Hit Combo should be able to one hit SoH in GvG, if not, then 2-Hit Combo + Volley Kick should do it. Then just Siren Song him afterwards, or wait for VK to cooldown. <--There you go? A dead priest. This can also be done in PvP.

And if you are fighting a Witch:

Well, pretty much the same as above but, since Witches only have Basic Healing to cure either of the Skunks.. You'd just use DF, they cure it, then you use SP. And there, dead Witch. But of course, assuming the skunk(s) hit. If they don't, you always have Wink to fall back on.. assuming it hits.
Well, I have no problems facing mages, but only if I am facing them 1 on 1. How often do you have those moments in GvG? A cast of Wink takes so freaking long, I am usually dead after the cast time... Q_Q. How2follow up?





Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuutsu
Oh god no, please do not announce it to the public. Send a PM instead.. We don't need anymore glitchers.
I dun want it to be shown to the public as well, which is why I said teach me. But as a charm, it naturally makes me curious such a thing existed.
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Last edited by zgmfx19a; 05-31-2009 at 06:56 PM.
 
05-31-2009   #19 (permalink)
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IGN: Silver
Class: Ag
Level: 47
Guild: Transition Metals
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This glitch existed since ever before pre-revo.

I'm not going to teach anyone about it, its pretty glitchy and you would probably do better permaskunking someone with Skunk and AOE Skunk anyway.

All I'm going to say is that theres a time limit linked to how long you should wait before you can skunk at about 95% chance of success again. After or before that time limit is up, your chances of skunking someone will drop back to 65% or even 55%. This is a game glitch and I'm not particulary intrested in teaching anyone about the exact time limit, kind of like the mathematical formula used for compounding which is ripped off another game server client.
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06-01-2009   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zgmfx09a
Well, I know there is skunk, but skunk does take some casting time. In that space, Buns will usually tetra you to death...
Most bunnies i fight usually use Flash Cut first.. Which would give you enough time to skunk them with either SP or DF. I prefer using DF because of the long range it has. Oh and, if you time it just right, you can catch a bunny with it while they are using FC. But your timing has to be extremly perfect, if you don't want to get hit by FC.

And, you can survive a Tetra in GvG.. You just need really high HP. xD; Or, depending on the bunnie's AP anyways.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zgmfx09a
Without skunk, no contest.
Since bunnies have Guard.. yeah, that's true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgmfx09a
Well, I have no problems facing mages, but only if I am facing them 1 on 1. How often do you have those moments in GvG? A cast of Wink takes so freaking long, I am usually dead after the cast time... Q_Q. How2follow up?
Have your team mates keep the other targets busy while you go after the mage. It is, after all, Guild Vs. Guild. You're suppose to work together. Not just run in, get killed, and repeat.

My memory is sorta failing me at the moment, since i rarely get winked while i'm on one of my sheeps, and i haven't played a Primadonna in so long.. But, doesn't Wink stay on the target even after you die? (Correct me if i'm wrong, please) If so, then if you die after casting Wink, and assuming it works, have a team mate hunt the target down.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zgmfx09a
But as a charm, it naturally makes me curious such a thing existed.
I know i told someone about this glitch before, a long time ago.. I can't really remember who i told but, I think it was him? I know him and I talked about it once before but, I can't remember if i told him about it or if he already knew and we were just talking about it. ;o;
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