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05-29-2009   #1 (permalink)
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Default It's a simple fact.

As stated in my sig, if you dont legally download music, you're helping to kill music.

Why do people constantly try to argue with me about this?

I'd like to see them spend hard earned time and money to create something, then have people blatently steal it from them.

Idiots.

And I dont wanna hear the "Theres nothing that can be done about it, it happens every day" arguement, because that dosent justify YOU doing it.

I can't wait to finish this album.
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05-29-2009   #2 (permalink)
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BRB finishing torrenting the Boom Boom Satellites albums and the rest of the Pendulum albums to see which songs I want to keep.

I'll buy albums again once they stop charging £20 to £30 for ten songs or when they make it worth paying that much for the two or three songs I'll even listen to out of the entire album.
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05-29-2009   #3 (permalink)
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Well as far as I know, anything that's on Youtube is free for us to use? I download off there and use a converting program I purchased to convert it into a playable audio file. :>

I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that since I'm not doing anything illegal.

Or is it? Because if it is then I'm an idiot.
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05-29-2009   #4 (permalink)
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Although what you speak of is the truth, you're sig makes it seem like you are personally attacking each individual who does it. That makes them more prone to confront you about it. I personally don't do it, but may i suggest you change to something less provoking? Maybe in question form or something.
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05-29-2009   #5 (permalink)
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I only download them because the CD's are not available to where I live. Plus people spreading around music can maybe contribute to the popularity of some artists?
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05-29-2009   #6 (permalink)
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I'd hate to purchase music with drm enabled stuff - where you can only listen @ ...just one place? wth with that .-.
 
05-29-2009   #7 (permalink)
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Like with software, I only get "open source" music. Yay nice people who compose music and upload them, all free of charge.
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05-29-2009   #8 (permalink)
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I found this in an album I illegally downloaded once.

Quote:
Hello listener...downloader...pirate...pseudo-criminal...

If you can read this, then you've more than likely downloaded this album from a peer to peer network or torrent.

You probably expect the rest of this message to tell you that you're hurting musicians and breaking just about every copyright law in the book. Well, it won't tell you that.

What I would like to tell you is that my record label understands that a large portion of people pirate music because it is easier than buying it. CDs scratch easily, most pay-per-download sites have poor quality and shitty DRM protection, and vinyl is near impossible to find or ship without hassle.
In many cases I wonder why people buy CDs at all anymore. A few like the tangible artwork, some haven't adapted to MP3s yet, but most do it because they have a profound love for music and want to support the artists making it. Kind of restores your faith in humanity for a moment eh?

So, now what?
Like the album? About to go "support the artist" on iTunes?
Well, don't.
Alphabasic is currently in a legal battle against Apple because NONE of our material (Sublight Records included) receives a dime of royalty from the vast amount of sales iTunes has generated using our material.

Want to buy a CD just to show your support?
If you don't particularly like CDs, don't bother.
Retailers like Best Buy and Amazon spike the price so high that their cut is often 8 times higher than the artist's. Besides, most CDs are made out of unrecyclable plastic and leave a nasty footprint in your environment.

If you do particularly like CDs, buy them from the label (in our case, alphabasic.com). After manufacturing costs are recuperated, our artists usually receive over 90% of the actual money coming out of your wallet.
In addition, all of our physical products are made out of 100% recycled material.

Want to show your support?
Go here and browse our library of lossless, DRM-free downloads.
Already have that?
Then feel free to donate whatever you want to your favorite artist. 100% will go directly to them.
Hell, you can even donate a penny just to thank the artist.

If you really like 'The Flashbulb - Soundtrack To A Vacant Life' and want to show your support without it going to greedy retailers, distributors, and coked-up label reps, then click the button below.
If you send us your mailing address, Alphabasic may occasionally send you various goodies (overstocks, stickers, even rare CDs) in appreciation and encouragement for your support.
 
05-29-2009   #9 (permalink)
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I buy albums as well as download music. Death of major labels =/= death of music in itself.

Most artistes know that the most important thing now is to rake in the audiences for their shows, and a 30 dollar CD is not going to get them that kind of publicity. Hence, the current trend of recording artistes distributing their music for free.
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05-29-2009   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metty
BRB finishing torrenting the Boom Boom Satellites albums and the rest of the Pendulum albums to see which songs I want to keep.

I'll buy albums again once they stop charging £20 to £30 for ten songs or when they make it worth paying that much for the two or three songs I'll even listen to out of the entire album.
C'mon Metty, you know as well as I do that you can easily find the tracklist, listen to the track list via Youtube, and get each song individually. plus, no one ever said you had to buy the entire album.

@Authentic: You obtained it through a means that isnt supported by neither the creator, nor the site, so yes, it is illegal.

@Dib: The sig is in response to the bad feedback of a campaign about this very topic. People shouldn't take it as an attack if they did nothing wrong.

@Justice: While that statement is absolutely right, Itunes dosen't HAVE to give every piece of money they make back to the artists, in fact, it usually dosen't happen.

@jayyy: Which is exactly the problem. I mean, what would you rather do, pay 15-20 USD for an album (or 1 dollar ish per song),or rack up tour prices so people cant even "afford" those too? Not only can they not be as efficient with their music that people oh so love, (but they choose to steal from them anyway) they get screwed over even more than ever.


But according to some people, (not anyone here in particular), I guess it'll be alright if people just swiped their paychecks after a hard week's work.

How do people expect newer artists to have a chance? American Idol? LOL
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Last edited by Ultimaga; 05-29-2009 at 11:55 AM.
 
05-29-2009   #11 (permalink)
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And just a jab at the topic title: the simple truth is never remotely close to being simple. In the words of my statics professor, "if something looks simple, you're looking at it wrong."
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05-29-2009   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentSaber
And just a jab at the topic title: the simple truth is never remotely close to being simple. In the words of my statics professor, "if something looks simple, you're looking at it wrong."
So you tell me what's not so simple about it. o.O
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05-29-2009   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimaga
@Justice: While that statement is absolutely right, Itunes dosen't HAVE to give every piece of money they make back to the artists, in fact, it usually dosen't happen.
So it's okay for i-tunes to basically steal from a musician by putting their work online for a profit and giving them no compensation, but it's absolutely wrong for fans to distribute their work online for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimaga
How do people expect newer artists to have a chance? American Idol? LOL
Well, they can always distribute their work online, or underground for free like most new artists. BUT THAT WOULD BE ILLEGAL AND A BAD IDEA
 
05-29-2009   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimaga
But according to some people, (not anyone here in particular), I guess it'll be alright if people just swiped their paychecks after a hard week's work.

How do people expect newer artists to have a chance? American Idol? LOL
Youtube. If the artist is known by someone somewhere, they're going to end up on Youtube. Hell, they could even upload it themselves. If it's on Youtube, like someone else said, it can be downloaded, which gives it recognition through "What song are you listening to?" between people. Which means loyal people will buy the album, and people who just want the music will download it free.

As for where I stand on buying albums, my MP3 is filled more than halfway with songs that don't have any English in them(or have any words at all). So it would be a struggle to buy the album from Japan or wherever, and it would be even more of a headache to try to find the artist of a song I don't know the artist of. If there are a few songs that I listen to very frequently that are within the same album, I'd probably buy them, just to save the struggle of having to find them again if something happens to my MP3.
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05-29-2009   #15 (permalink)
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The issue here is how you get people to care about music piracy. Everyone who downloads MP3s illegally knows it. The question is how you get some broke 14 year old to save up allowance and buy something they could get for free. It's a challenging issue that doesn't really have an answer, because the industry doesn't consider a practical solution. A lot of music listeners like rebellious activity, and when someone tries to play the prince over them and point fingers, it makes the piracy seem more justified. Why? Because you don't like fingers being pointed at you, and the last thing you are going to do is make that pompous, finger pointing dork seem like they are right (even if they are). P2P lawsuits and invasive DRM have not helped the music industry's cause at all, and many people outright support piracy as a means of protesting against an industry who tramples on their fans with DRM just to stamp out pirates.

Nobody here will argue piracy is right. Convincing someone to pay money for something they could get for free (even if illegally) is another matter. Are these people jerks for doing this? Absolutely. But then again, society is full of jerks, and we deal with it all the same. Therein lies the problem. Jerks will always be jerks. They don't need justification for any of their actions, like why they piss on the toilet seat, take a bite out of an apple and put it back into the pile, or eat your lunch from the company fridge. So with this in mind, piracy will always exist, because jerks exist. On the other end of the spectrum are fans, which support the artist, no matter how crappy their music has become. Fans can be best defined as people who still pay money for a Bob Dylan concert. These are the base level supporters that make the music popular within their community and make more fans. The third group of people is the general public, which includes people who listen to music, but don't really care much about it.

In order for the industry to grow, it needs to appeal to the general public, create MORE fans and LESS jerks. It sounds simple enough, but this is a truth the industry does not see when it creates invasive DRM and assumes everyone in the general public is a jerk. In their efforts to stem the number of jerks, they have alienated the general public, and they are now worse off than they were before. The industry acted like jerks, and in response, the number people from the general public that converted to jerks went up. This is why the music industry is dying; because it's digging it's own grave. A jacket is not worth $600 unless the buyer loves it. The same could be said about a $20 CD. However, this highlights another problem that's inherent to the music business: label making.

When someone buys a $600 jacket they love, they will often be attached to it and have it around a lot. When someone listens to music and gets a few CDs by their choice artists, they tend to block out a lot of other music. This doesn't sit well with music producers, who want the public to keep buying from new artists, and constantly promote the next big songs. The chart topping trend has caused many people to buy CDs every month and then toss them into a corner somewhere after a period of time. The music industry wanted less music fans, and more music consumers, and in this respect, they succeeded. The problem is, consumers are soulless jerks. They have no attachment to something that's in one month and out the next, and they shop for the best deals around. When the best deal is zero dollars, in the form of piracy, the business model is thrown out the door, and the fact that the music industry is the very entity that uprooted the connection from fans to artists shows why the industry is in the massive hole it's in now. Consumers don't love music. They consume it. Fans love music. They buy it.

tl;dr: The music industry will thrive again when they focus on making fans instead of jerks.
 
05-29-2009   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimaga
C'mon Metty, you know as well as I do that you can easily find the tracklist, listen to the track list via Youtube, and get each song individually.
Kind of hard to go onto youtube after getting my money from unemployment while I'm in town before going to the grocery store.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimaga
plus, no one ever said you had to buy the entire album.
The shop said I can't buy that 10p worth of plastic that holds one or two songs but have to pay them forty times the price of the actual disk instead.
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05-29-2009   #17 (permalink)
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Since when did music become less about the music and more about the money. Greedy punks live off past creativity and genius and slack in future albums. I will not have my favourite artists succumb to such a fate >:l
 
05-29-2009   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimaga
So you tell me what's not so simple about it. o.O
What are the drivers behind illegal downloads?
How much loss is incurred by said downloads?
How much is made despite downloads?

And another question might be how much piracy even matters right now. I mean, a case in point is microsoft. The windows system must be the most widely used pirate software (with probably every computer in china using a pirated version) out there, and yet they've still made exceptional gains up to this recession.

There are also problems that spring up while attempting to stop music piracy:
How would you enforce these laws?
Would enforcing these laws be unconstitutional (US) (right to privacy).
What would be a suitable punishment?
And would anyone care? Remember the drinking age or smoking age? If I get a quarter for every underage person I've seen drinking and smoking...
And would said law be feasible. i.e. would it be able to pass the legislative branch?

May be a bit unrelated, but people tend to not pay for things they are able to get for free (unless it's linux, haha). So it'll take more than just words to stop them. Which would lead to the need for laws to be passed, which would raise a lot of fun questions.
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Last edited by SilentSaber; 05-29-2009 at 09:19 PM.
 
05-30-2009   #19 (permalink)
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if you're talking about the music INDUSTRY,
i doubt the blame should be placed on the illegal downloaders
it's structured in a way that a few songs get overpopularized til listeners basically get sick of it,
then in comes newer songs that get played over and over again everywhere
rinse and repeat
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05-30-2009   #20 (permalink)
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Actually the song market is slightly becoming better.
General "legal" reasons people don't want to buy CDs:
1. No CD Player, don't want to use a CD player, CD Player not compatible with the "DRM" discs
2. Only want 1 or 2 songs but have to pay a high price
3. DRM and lots of issues cause by the "DRM"
4. The store is so far/no time to go to the store
5. Not enough attractive "freebies" (Posters or whatever)
6. Preference towards "soft" copy
7. You can't find those songs anywhere except through illegal download (Probably have to download for this) [You need to sell half ur kidney to import one rare disc]
8. You dislike record companies leeching more money than the song creators.

For reasons 1, 3, 6 you can still download and buy the disc. Technically it is still legal.

However in the recent years most are considered "solved" by online music stores.
In fact online stores brought back the sales for the songs which record company couldn't.

No matter what people argue, illegal song download is still illegal no matter what cause there are online DRM free online stores now.

The only reason left
1. You're a cheapskate.

Over popularize doesn't give you the right to just distribute the songs, that's why you have the option now to only buy a single song now.

http://www.mymmogames.net/forum/life...lagiarism.html <-- technically it is the same as this.

But music can't be killed, no matter what.
The one who dies are the artists without food. >.<
Btw i'm a cheapskate.
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Last edited by kag; 05-30-2009 at 05:06 AM.
 

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