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darkdestiny 07-09-2008 05:43 PM

PvP Rule\Etiquette Set
 
Introduction:

I made this guide as a rule set which people could refer easily refer to, so people can have a match with rules they agree on. The goal of this guide is to make a set of rules that maximize fun for both players as much as possible. Keep in mind infinites are not allowed under these rule set, but interesting and LOL combos can still be done. Anyone that wants to argue the pros of an infinite, don't bother. I'll simple ignore you and say this: it might be fun for you, but might not be fun for the other player. IF it is fun for both players, then simply don't use my rule set.

Besides that, feel free to add comments, suggestions, and what not.

P.S. Yes, I was bored when doing this in class.

Rules:

Melee
  1. 1.Each class is only allowed 11 melee hits before a skill must be used to reset melee count.
    a.What is counted as melee:
    i.A and S are counted as melee. Dash AS is counted as melee.
    ii.Windmill is not counted as melee. Windmills have separate rules.
    1.Directional Windmills can only be used two times in a row.
    a.Directional Windmills are windmills that cancel out the entire sidestep or very close to it. It’s basically a windmill that looks like two repeated Dash A in any direction.
    2.Circular Windmills can be used up to one full circle (which is up to 16 hits IIRC).
    3.A windmill combining both Directional and Circular follows the same rule. If you spin half a circle, switch to directional windmill and then back to circular, you are still in the same circle. Similarly, if you do half a circle once in a combo, you can only do half a circle later.
    4.Windmill count does not reset by skill usage. Only by restarting a combo when they drop.
    iii.Dash ASS on Eir is not counted as melee.
    1.Each combo is allowed 3 Dash ASS in a row.
    iv.Autostep on Dainn isn’t counted as melee.
    1.Each combo is allowed 3 instant autostep AAs.
    a.Autostep shifts or any other autostep hits do not count as an instant autostep.
    b.Instant Autosteps look like repeated (or very close to) AAs non stop.

Skill usage limitations:
  1. Each skill that has a cool down of 15 seconds or under (x<15) can only be used three times in one combo.
  2. Each skill that has a cool down of OVER 15 seconds (X> 15) can only be used ONCE per combo.
    a.Resets such as sky slashing, entwining roots, tornado, do not reset skill usage.
    b.Space bar resets are allowed to reset skill usage because they’re escapable even after being hit.
  3. Melee count does not reset by skills that do not hit. Even if they have the capacity to hit.
    a.Examples: Play dead, Counter, Ice Arrow cancel, self heal, etc.
Etiquette/Rules:


All heals of any class are allowed


Sieg
  1. Magic Defense & Rage
    a.Expect people to run when you used these skill and DO NOT call people runners when they do so.
  2. Other skills cause people to run too, but I’ve yet to see an idiot call other people runners because they run from Whirlwave Sword AKA Nado.

Eir
  1. Eirs MUST (It is possible to do it based on movement only, but lets face it, no Eir that does that wins against other pros of various classes. If you try to give exceptions in gLunia, I will shoot them down like nothing) spam in general for tactical purposes
  2. Magic Barrier
    a.Do not complain when an Eir hides behind magic barrier. There are many ways to catch them still. Unlike other classes, Eir depend more on advance tricks to catch.
  3. Eir combos are not as easy as other classes. AASAAAA HD/shift infinite requires perfection in timing. Do not bitch when an Eir can’t combo. If you want to challenge me on this point, you better play an Eir and combo good.
    a.There is the HS, moon chain, FMB, and shout combo, but it requires a wall. A wall WON’T ALWAYS be there.
Dainn
  1. Unlike Eirs, Dainns don’t have to spam. They have good melee. By proper etiquette people should not bitch about spam, but do not expect other classes to approach you, and do NOT call other people runners and spammers because don’t approach you. That would make you a hypocrite, and no one would want to play you for very long.
  2. If you use Fire Dragon's Heart, don't expect other people to charge at you and definitely do not call them a runner/spammer/both if they snipe you from far.

Certain low levels may feel it's unfair against them if they don't have a certain skill, so if they ask you to not use some uber cheap skills or a skill they've yet to get, please try to comply. This will only apply in balance because I fail too see the point in free. You're pretty much screwed even if it's only a 5 level difference =X. A detailed version of what is to be restricted at what level might come later depending suggestions.

Map Specific:

Team Tournament: Each player is to wait at least 3 seconds after the previous winner takes the apple before commencing attack. In other words, until they're done healing with the apple.

flsg 07-09-2008 06:09 PM

wow, cool guide, looks like a well-made rant lol

tia section plz

BTW in Skill usage limitations 3.3 what about shuriken? and when it hits?

cherrypandah 07-09-2008 06:14 PM

very good job, hopefully people will refer to this
=)

Lunar 07-09-2008 06:29 PM

nooo ur not supposed to make it.. until i finished examining everyone in klunia D:
and wut! use FDH against lunar. makes him run into it for fun

ok i finished reading.. dont agree with few things.. but not like normal ppl can do them anyways..

darkdestiny 07-09-2008 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flsg (Post 341604)
wow, cool guide, looks like a well-made rant lol

tia section plz

BTW in Skill usage limitations 3.3 what about shuriken? and when it hits?

It would reset, but I don't think you can do anything with it when it hits other than A shuriken infinite (correct me if I'm wrong) and by the other limitation, you can only do it three times. There is a flaw to it I've yet to address, and I'm not too pro with Tia or Lime atm (Working on them).

P.S the 3.3 was a typo =D

Lunar 07-09-2008 08:15 PM

o forgot.. ur haxing 11 hits! D: i can't use my cookiecutter combo
it also limited one of dainn's stalling combo ur guides failing!
i.e. i haven't used dainn forever.. but i do remember a dain doing. aaaa auto aaaa auto aa auto aa dash as ice arrow aa dash as
going by ur guide it's 18 hits..

darkdestiny 07-09-2008 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunar (Post 341740)
o forgot.. ur haxing 11 hits! D: i can't use my cookiecutter combo
it also limited one of dainn's stalling combo ur guides failing!
i.e. i haven't used dainn forever.. but i do remember a dain doing. aaaa auto aaaa auto aa auto aa dash as ice arrow aa dash as
going by ur guide it's 18 hits..

Actually, AAAA auto AAAA auto would be 8 hits. Auto AA Auto AA ice arrow AA would be counted as auto rules which limit 3 and that would fit perfectly. Dash as twice means 4 so 12 hits. It's one more than 11 so it's not that bad. I puck 11 because it slices up many combos that do 12 like AAAS x3 on sieg, and this one would be butchered by one hit too forcing you to let them down or skill after dash A.

Lunar 07-09-2008 08:47 PM

that i do not get.. auto aa counts as auto but auto aa-aa doesn't? wut the..
i thought we all concluded auto is the movement and not the aa after back a few months ago

and they're not instant auto's they're semi shifts that's y i counted 18.. u can subtract 2 from the IA auto cause that one is instant

Gaiety 07-09-2008 08:50 PM

Full circle windmill = plenty for an infinite >_>

As for Eirs, john is an excellent example here:

AAS AAAA dAS S dAS usually puts him near enough to the wall to HS Chain FMB, and that's exactly 11 hits.

EDIT:
Quote:

Each skill that has a cool down of OVER 15 seconds (X> 15) can only be used ONCE per combo.
But.. my Hand of Earth! ;-;

EDITEDIT: oh lawd, didn't see that on Eirs >_>

That means... AAS AAAA AAAA dAS S dAS S dAS S etc, which is PLENTY to get anyone from wall to wall.

Lunar 07-09-2008 08:52 PM

acording to zy's guide
d as s isn't melee

windmill i prefer the rule of 5..
universal and no useless stuff. since that's wut ur guide was aiming for...
full circle windmill is a repetitive move since ur back to where u started


we should all make a guide and see how it'll fit together..

shuyu 07-09-2008 09:10 PM

i like your guide but no one i play ever listen to any rules in pvp anyway they either run and skill and i mean alot or spam and always cuss when they lose

darkdestiny 07-09-2008 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunar (Post 341789)
that i do not get.. auto aa counts as auto but auto aa-aa doesn't? wut the..
i thought we all concluded auto is the movement and not the aa after back a few months ago

and they're not instant auto's they're semi shifts that's y i counted 18.. u can subtract 2 from the IA auto cause that one is instant

Yeah, I need to edit that a little. I'm only counting auto AA because autostep is indeed a movement, so technically everything with Auto would be void as melee. I wrote that in like 30 minutes so it does need criticism =P.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaiety (Post 341797)
Full circle windmill = plenty for an infinite >_>

As for Eirs, john is an excellent example here:

AAS AAAA dAS S dAS usually puts him near enough to the wall to HS Chain FMB, and that's exactly 11 hits.

EDIT:

But.. my Hand of Earth! ;-;

EDITEDIT: oh lawd, didn't see that on Eirs >_>

That means... AAS AAAA AAAA dAS S dAS S dAS S etc, which is PLENTY to get anyone from wall to wall.

Technically yes, but this is not a guide towards idealism yet as no Eir can pull that off with a good percentage, and once they hit wall, they're pretty much gonna fail the wall shift from what I saw >_>, even if they land it I don't think those hits would be enough to create a long combo seeing as they only have HS and shout for reset.

The only fix for that would be to create a melee limit per class. It would be a lot more detailed, and a crud load harder to remember.

And... what about your stinky hand of earth =]. Using that twice in one combo is like ... one freaken long combo =x. You can't combo for 25 seconds the last time I checked anyways =]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunar (Post 341800)
acording to zy's guide
d as s isn't melee

windmill i prefer the rule of 5..
universal and no useless stuff. since that's wut ur guide was aiming for...
full circle windmill is a repetitive move since ur back to where u started


we should all make a guide and see how it'll fit together..

Yeah, I'm trying to jam all your opinions into something more as a compromise rather than a work of my own. That's why this guide doesn't have my name in the thread =P.

Regarding the windmill, I'm not all too sure, but anything over 4 is a lot on windmill, but I also wanna reward those who feel brave enough to try and circle windmill. There is a tweak for that to limit it to one windmill up to 360, and if you stop your one windmill is used up per combo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoruichiii (Post 341820)
i like your guide but no one i play ever listen to any rules in pvp anyway they either run and skill and i mean alot or spam and always cuss when they lose

Yeah, I made it exactly because there are no standards as well. Even if you manage to get one of them to listen, they can always use the excuse there are no set rules, but now there is.

I also understand that this won't help the situation much at all, but a little is better than nothing. Even if it's infinitesimal >_>

shuyu 07-09-2008 09:18 PM

i think only way this will work is if we all play agaisnt pro that go to mylunia and read and actually listen or when ppl pvp with guild but some ppl may actually listen so this is better then nothing

jayrawr 07-09-2008 09:51 PM

good sportsmanship should be a pvp rule too*

Xpecial 07-09-2008 09:56 PM

^oic wut u did thar.

Yea... try not to hijack threads `-`

Point 07-09-2008 11:59 PM

a lil Q about windmill(not like i can do it anyway but still) for frontals when u say limit is 2 does that include the first dash a that hits? ex. (assuming on wall)
aa dash as kick s dash a sp dash a CC
or
aa dash as kick s dash a sp dash a sp dash a CC

darkdestiny 07-10-2008 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Point (Post 341932)
a lil Q about windmill(not like i can do it anyway but still) for frontals when u say limit is 2 does that include the first dash a that hits? ex. (assuming on wall)
aa dash as kick s dash a sp dash a CC
or
aa dash as kick s dash a sp dash a sp dash a CC

Yes it would include the first that hits. This means the former.

imported_john 07-10-2008 12:18 AM

gross I'm in this thread!

anyway yea I usually don't go over 2 dash AS S's cuz the timing isn't consistent and its on a case by case basis. So I agree with that rule.

Just to clarify, ground hits don't count right? for example

AA dash AS tears dash AS spirit dash AS shout shift AAAA

would count for FOUR melee hits? I'm not sure if I read you guide correctly :P

darkdestiny 07-10-2008 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john (Post 341939)
gross I'm in this thread!

anyway yea I usually don't go over 2 dash AS S's cuz the timing isn't consistent and its on a case by case basis. So I agree with that rule.

Just to clarify, ground hits don't count right? for example

AA dash AS tears dash AS spirit dash AS shout shift AAAA

would count for FOUR melee hits? I'm not sure if I read you guide correctly :P

The rules of melee does apply from ground up meaning you only get 8 Air melee hits for any class that starts with AAS.

In that combo, the melee count would be like 4, reset, 2, reset, 2 reset, 4.

P.S I just found a flaw with my own guide. Since I made dash AS melee, AAS AAAA AAAA Dash AS holy Spirit breaks the rules >_>. I'm not sure how much a problem that is ATM because AAS AAAA AA dash AS would work, but that might cripple Eir on bigger map. Maybe. Maybe not. I think it'll be fine, just a bit harder to pull. Comment please =P.

imported_john 07-10-2008 12:52 AM

Yea you'll need a flawless shift to hit an AAS AAAA shift AAAA and then after that repositioning is a butt.

AAS AAAA shift AA dash AS is usually safer but doing another dash AS is hazardous.

However with halfdashes AAS AAAA hd AAAA dash AS is ezpz.

Also you shouldn't need to shift after AASAAAA anyway since that's the ideal height and position you want the opponent to be. Two dash AS's should bring you close enough, if you need more, eirs can do dash AS shout dash AS instead, effectively resetting the count.

Eir's main problem is that she's dependant on her infi combo (after you can spam all the spells you can spam) for mana regen to do its job. As you know her infi doesn't require skills so you're pretty much crippling Eirs if you stick to the 11 hit combo.

Also, if I freeze someone while they're in the air, do the hits still count?


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