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07-10-2008   #21 (permalink)
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Hm that just revived a question inside me: What are the Korean tourney rules? I suppose that if TFT is organizing a 1v1 tourney (note the "if" >.>), it's likely going to be the same ruleset. So why don't we just use those?
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07-10-2008   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john
Yea you'll need a flawless shift to hit an AAS AAAA shift AAAA and then after that repositioning is a butt.

AAS AAAA shift AA dash AS is usually safer but doing another dash AS is hazardous.

However with halfdashes AAS AAAA hd AAAA dash AS is ezpz.

Also you shouldn't need to shift after AASAAAA anyway since that's the ideal height and position you want the opponent to be. Two dash AS's should bring you close enough, if you need more, eirs can do dash AS shout dash AS instead, effectively resetting the count.

Eir's main problem is that she's dependant on her infi combo (after you can spam all the spells you can spam) for mana regen to do its job. As you know her infi doesn't require skills so you're pretty much crippling Eirs if you stick to the 11 hit combo.

Also, if I freeze someone while they're in the air, do the hits still count?
Heh, creative situation. IDK, under these rules, they would count. I'm a bit sketchy on whether or not to count them. It would hardly give Eirs an edge, and they pretty much need it, so I don't see a problem with it. What do you think?

AAS AAAA AA dash AS HS (into wall)- cancel AA shift AAAA HD AA dash AS shout hd AAAA AAAA dash AS holy spirit (i wonder if it's back).

IDK if this combo works, but if it does, it should make a long enough combo to mana regen under the condition HS is level 1. If it's not level 1, you would have to stick with pure melee combos that are okay length. Dainn has the same problem with melee regen really. You cycle pillar and hand, and once they're on cd you spam AAS, space bar combos, or run for your life. But the whole point of this is to cut out infinite so it works. In mana regen games, generally you die before you get enough to do intense damage. However, for Eir you can't really do space bar combos that work with high chance without using high level dodge...or maybe there are ways hrmm... I need to test it. If it works, but Eirs with low mana normally pentagon light, so it's not like I'm crippling their regen abilities, but their ability to do damage is slightly more crippled with no mana until someone comes up with some space bar combos.

What do you propose in order to fix it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mengjun
Hm that just revived a question inside me: What are the Korean tourney rules? I suppose that if TFT is organizing a 1v1 tourney (note the "if" >.>), it's likely going to be the same ruleset. So why don't we just use those?
I don't think anyone knows what the exact rules are, and if they do know it, it's a bit too comprehensive to type out or explain because their English isn't too great (Iiru, even though he's gone =/) That's why I'm making a separate rule set that would work in place of would kL thought up.

I'm also pretty sure that TFT has no intentions of learning what the kL rule sets are. The last tournament they held had pretty lame rules. It seemed apparent they didn't bother looking up any of the ML PvP stuff.
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07-10-2008   #23 (permalink)
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I will just state the skills that people with manners
sieg: magic defence
Eir: heal
Dainn: heart
Tia: hide
well got from *coughkoreancoughsitecough(
+ not using higher lvl skill to lower lvl ppl
 
07-10-2008   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
You cycle pillar and hand, and once they're on cd you spam AAS, space bar combos, or run for your life.
I'm the only Dainn who uses spacebar combos as far as I know >_>;

Another thing to note: Ice Arrow (15 mp at level 1) to get a recharge

So in this case, Dainn is much more able to regen mana, even when under the amount for Fire Orb. I'd say Eir's melee limit should definitely get bumped up for balance purposes.


As for tourney rulesets, TFT didn't even take a serious look at user suggestions on their official forums =/
 
07-10-2008   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaiety
I'm the only Dainn who uses spacebar combos as far as I know >_>;

Another thing to note: Ice Arrow (15 mp at level 1) to get a recharge

So in this case, Dainn is much more able to regen mana, even when under the amount for Fire Orb. I'd say Eir's melee limit should definitely get bumped up for balance purposes.
Yeah, you are the only Dainn I see with spacebar combos, but other classes (primarily Tia and Sieg) use them too (regardless of mana actually =P but frequency does go up with lower mana)

It is true that Ice Arrow at level one does give a possibility to recharge, but chances are that if they spot you low on mana, you won't get a chance to pull that ice arrow off as they'll be on your butt all the time trying to hack you down.

It is common to pull a fire orb and recharge mana when under a fire orb, and it is possible for an Eir to pull off an HS sacrifice and get mana back easily too. Although it's at a higher risk if the eir fails to maintain decent HP levels with heal.

Dainn recharges by forcing opponents to run so they can S charge. Eir's can force an opponent to run with Pentagon to recharge.

I gain about 100 mp back each pentagon light session, and it's not so long at all. Come to think of it, it's quite possible for my Eir to never run out of mana, and still hold a decent fun battle.

If there are a bunch of others who think it's needed for mana, I'll tweak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuCkY
I will just state the skills that people with manners
sieg: magic defence
Eir: heal
Dainn: heart
Tia: hide
well got from *coughkoreancoughsitecough(
+ not using higher lvl skill to lower lvl ppl
These points are actually too controversial. I appreciate pointing it out, but there are a few reasons I don't want to make them solid rules.

1. Some lower level people like learning how to counter those things early on, and like to fight head on against the best ways to use those skills.

2. Some lower levels consider it looking down on them to restrict skills.

Because of these two reasons (there is probably more than my dead brain can't think of at this hour), I'll leave it up to each player's choice whether or not to use the skills. I think what I will do is to make a note in my guide about this sometime tomorrow after my tests >_>
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07-10-2008   #26 (permalink)
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I suppose having to mix pentagon light and space bar combos isn't so bad.

By space bar combo I'm going to assume you mean ending with a space bar? If not you have to throw a spirit so that as soon as you space the enemy, spirit picked them up.

Personally I would have to adopt my playing style, but it should be fine lol.

Eir's get a guaranteed space bar when they space in place of AAAA during their infi combo.

For example, for a max of 11 hits,

AASAAAA hd AAAA hd space.

The second halfdash would have to be fast. On second thought, you might not even have to halfdash since space cancels the dash anyway so you'd just dash up to wherever the enemy is and blam.

Or an easier one

AS shift space

the shift is there since the timing is easier since its the space as AS shift AAAA

Also, its not as if Pentagon Light is hard to dodge >_>

If Dainn recharges even once and you rush in but fail to prevent S charge, you'll get hit in the face with dragon. Eirs have a disadvantage in that they can't punish you for charging in without sufficient time.

Mana regen is easy against Tias in my experience. Cast a barrier and hide in/around it and play tag with your opponent lol. This is harder to pull off against other classes (siegs can voke/nado/cms, dainns can dragon/AoE, eirs can holy spirit, but tias don't got nothing I think)

I actually have no idea how to fix it, I'm kind of willing to try how space bar and pentagon light will last me in regen games.
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07-10-2008   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john
I suppose having to mix pentagon light and space bar combos isn't so bad.

By space bar combo I'm going to assume you mean ending with a space bar? If not you have to throw a spirit so that as soon as you space the enemy, spirit picked them up.

Personally I would have to adopt my playing style, but it should be fine lol.

Eir's get a guaranteed space bar when they space in place of AAAA during their infi combo.

For example, for a max of 11 hits,

AASAAAA hd AAAA hd space.

The second halfdash would have to be fast. On second thought, you might not even have to halfdash since space cancels the dash anyway so you'd just dash up to wherever the enemy is and blam.

Or an easier one

AS shift space

the shift is there since the timing is easier since its the space as AS shift AAAA

Also, its not as if Pentagon Light is hard to dodge >_>

If Dainn recharges even once and you rush in but fail to prevent S charge, you'll get hit in the face with dragon. Eirs have a disadvantage in that they can't punish you for charging in without sufficient time.

Mana regen is easy against Tias in my experience. Cast a barrier and hide in/around it and play tag with your opponent lol. This is harder to pull off against other classes (siegs can voke/nado/cms, dainns can dragon/AoE, eirs can holy spirit, but tias don't got nothing I think)

I actually have no idea how to fix it, I'm kind of willing to try how space bar and pentagon light will last me in regen games.
I was hoping that Pentagon light to space bar would work too =]

Other than that, Pentagon light game is really fun. You throw in a mix of canceling pentagon light by dashing or doing SS space to backslide when they think you'll fire off or add another S or even add another S to adjust to their positioning. I haven't gotten that good at it yet, but I don't get caught so easily after pentagon light.
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07-10-2008   #28 (permalink)
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hm... before I get to 50 and put on my smexy upgraded Cash items, I was wondeirng if ppl complain when you have on any cash items that give you an advantage since not everyone has access to those items (i.e. yellow dance hall sword or items that give skill points... and who knows in the future if glunia will go the way of tlunia... or even further than tlunia...)
 
07-10-2008   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuCkY
I will just state the skills that people with manners
sieg: magic defence
Eir: heal
Dainn: heart
Tia: hide
well got from *coughkoreancoughsitecough(
+ not using higher lvl skill to lower lvl ppl
its actually written somewhere?
oo i guessed right! lol
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07-11-2008   #30 (permalink)
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What about those annoying tias who insist on using infinite combo till your death even though they have powerful combos already <.<
 
07-11-2008   #31 (permalink)
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they're already restricted in this guide..
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07-11-2008   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatkins
hm... before I get to 50 and put on my smexy upgraded Cash items, I was wondeirng if ppl complain when you have on any cash items that give you an advantage since not everyone has access to those items (i.e. yellow dance hall sword or items that give skill points... and who knows in the future if glunia will go the way of tlunia... or even further than tlunia...)
From what I've seen, there's been no complaints about cash shop items.

It might be unfair, but it's just as the same as fighting someone with godly gear *Cough half of fusion =P cough*, so I don't see much a problem with it. If someone goes to free to fight, they should be well prepared to face the difference in gear.
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07-11-2008   #33 (permalink)
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ah.. u know wut u should add.
in team tournament.. the apple signifies grace period.
after taking apple allow 3 secs before starting attack
it are the rule in klunia and me likes it
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07-11-2008   #34 (permalink)
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Though what about the usage of Ice Barrier?

Surely Ice Barrier on a corner means death (not very nice). Or the usage of Ice Barrier near a Wall to create a perfect defense against melee attacks with only 2 openings. Should these techniques also be banned?
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07-11-2008   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrX
Though what about the usage of Ice Barrier?

Surely Ice Barrier on a corner means death (not very nice). Or the usage of Ice Barrier near a Wall to create a perfect defense against melee attacks with only 2 openings. Should these techniques also be banned?
So what does that look like?

Could I see a diagram?
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07-11-2008   #36 (permalink)
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I dunno about ice barrier, but I've heard that if you place it right, moon barrier can freeze someone in it lol
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07-11-2008   #37 (permalink)
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You can lock people inside barriers, but I'm pretty sure Zephyr is referring to the trick where a Dainn will carry someone to a corner and then use Ice Wall to create a triangular prison that you can't escape. At that point, the Dainn is free to nuke a more or less immobile target.

The other one is probably something like this, where x is the Dainn and he uses an Ice Barrier to make it so you can only approach from two directions.
Code:
__
  |
  |
| |
|x|
| |
__|
Personally I'm inclined to say the 2nd is just using your skills intelligently. The first one is too, really, but it feels like it could screw some people over really badly. Could a Tia do anything if a Dainn decides to stand right outside the wall out of line for a shuriken and Meteor/Red Fire Dragon?
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07-12-2008   #38 (permalink)
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Mash A. 5 swings will break the wall since it can withstand 10, and because of the way its casted, you're hitting the wall's "back" netting you two hits per swing. The first A actually gets you four hits.
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07-13-2008   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar
ah.. u know wut u should add.
in team tournament.. the apple signifies grace period.
after taking apple allow 3 secs before starting attack
it are the rule in klunia and me likes it
I totally forgot to ask some questions about this. I added it just now, and there are other things needed to be said. In these three seconds they're taking the apple, are they allowed to S charge, sacrifice, etc... I would assume no, but I'm curious what kLunia does, and do they enter the arena then wait, or do they wait the entire apple time off before entering the stage to signify the start of the fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrX
Though what about the usage of Ice Barrier?

Surely Ice Barrier on a corner means death (not very nice). Or the usage of Ice Barrier near a Wall to create a perfect defense against melee attacks with only 2 openings. Should these techniques also be banned?
I would say these techniques shouldn't be banned because it's not like they're perfect. Using a wall to perfect defense against melee would also mean the Dainn is crippling themselves in movement to dodge spells. For example, with an Eir you can seal off the other end with magic barrier then they're really screwed. Pretty much any class can abuse it in similar methods.

The perfect ice wall technique can be beat pretty easily too. I've yet to learn Tia well, but if Riceburner says it can be done quite quick and easily, I'll take his word for it as he's like the epitome of Tia knowledge.
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