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-   -   FAQ: Basics of Eir in PvP (http://ggftw.com/forum/pvp-guides/15946-faq-basics-eir-pvp.html)

Kismet 01-13-2008 12:23 PM

FAQ: Basics of Eir in PvP
 
This FAQ is meant to cover the basics of making/playing an Eir for PvP and introduce some intermediate techniques for PvP combat. This, by no means, is meant to be an in-depth guide/FAQ. Some views and opinions may differ, as a lot of things depend on one's playstyle, but I tried to keep the explanations rather general.

Eir Setup:

What is the best stat for PvP?
There's no real variety in stat builds when it comes to PvP in my opinion. I personally see no better stat for PvP than VIT.

What is the best PvP build? Which skills are useless?
Skill builds are really based on personal preference, as it really depends on your play style, but there are a few skills that are less favorable than others. Heal, Prayer of Healing, Antidote(until Tia maybe), Ressurection, Moonlight Chain, Blessed Defense, Concentration, and Deadly Magic Blow skills aren't particularly ones that I would really get for PvP.

What skills can be left at 1?
A number of skills for Eir are useful even at level 1. Such skills include, but are not limited to: Deadly Magic Blow, Dodge, Sacred Wave, Moon Fog, Holy Spirit, Tears of Goddess, Light of Purification, Light Shield, Holy Shout, Judgment of God, Emergency Heal, Sunlight of Healing and Antidote once Tia is released. This does not mean that they should be left at Level 1, but simply that they can be left at 1 and still be useful.


Eir Gameplay:

Is Eir the worse in melee out of the characters?
Personally, I consider Eir to be overall the worst melee-er out of the characters simply because her attack range is short and her attack speed is somewhat lacking. The main redeeming factor about Eir is that most of her attacks are cancelable, including dash AS, and she has a very, very simple infinite juggle using purely melee attacks. An Eir's best friends are...AAS, AAAA, AS, and dash AS. Eir also has Pentagon Light, which is also very useful since they increased the range on a couple of the attacks, as well as the tracking. For Pentagon Light use, your best bet is SSA, especially since you can always cancel into a backdash (S Space/ SS Space) if you are threatened.

What do I do when I run out of mana?
An Eir can recover mana in two ways. One is to simply wait for the mana to recover, relying on the Mana Recovery skill. This includes juggling someone with melee attacks or running around to buy time, but running around is highly frowned upon by many PvPers when it comes to PvP etiquette. The second option is to use Price of Sacrifice, which is a risky maneuver due to the long delay after casting it, as well as the health sacrificed. Probably the safest way to use Price of Sacrifice in a PvP match is to push your opponent away with Holy Spirit then cast Price of Sacrifice right after.

How can I deal more damage in combos? (Resetting Damage Reduction)
Unfortunately, Eir has no pickup spells like Dainn does.

I'm so slow, how do I catch up to someone who's running?
Someone who runs, and runs well, is a huge problem for an Eir to deal with. All of her spells are rather slow traveling, making it very difficult to hit the opponent with a skill when they are running. One way to deal with runners is to use Moon Fog in their path as they approach a wall or corner, as hitting them with Moon Fog would snare them. Another way is to use Sacred Wave to fit in some damage and disrupt their running a little bit. Unfortunately, both these skills are of higher level (50 and 48 respectively).

Is Moon Barrier useful in PvP?
Moon Barrier has its uses in PvP, although it's not quite as impressive as it is in stages. Moon Barrier serves generally the same purpose as Dainn's Ice Barrier in PvP, but with the additional effect of blocking spell projectiles (ie Fire Orb and Firebomb). Moon Barrier serves as a wall against your opponent, a wall that you yourself can walk through. This can be used to your advantage as it forces your opponent to walk around it if they wish to get into melee range. Moon Barrier is obviously a defensive skill in PvP and can be quite useful when used strategically.

When is the best time to use Moon Fog?
Generally, the best time to use Moon Fog is when someone is being defensive and is trying to keep a safe distance from you. This applies to both Dainns and Eirs (AoE spells). The absolute best time to use Moon Fog is when your opponent is pushed into a corner, allowing you to cover the whole corner of the map with Moon Fog which would hurt them when they get up and snare them.

How should I use Dodge in PvP?
- 1vs1: Depending on your play style, Dodge can be used in a couple of ways. If you tend to be more of a defensive player who tries to lure attacks and take advantage of openings, Dodge can be used defensively by baiting people into it when they try to approach you. In this sense, Dodge would be more of an evasive maneuver that may possibly hit the opponent if they walk into it, but more than often it will be avoided. For this sort of play style, it would be best to leave Dodge at level 1 to avoid wasting too much mana on missed Dodges.

However if your playstyle uses Dodge in combos, such as AA Dodge (reverse direction) AAAA etc. then it would be worth your while raising Dodge to a much higher level, or maxing it out. In the same sense, it would be best to raise skills that are "guaranteed" to hit, such as ones you use in combos often.

- Team PvP: If you are building your character more for Team play, with healing and all, it may be best to leave Dodge at 1 simply because you would be playing a much more supportive role than you would in 1vs1. Not only would this allow you to raise better team attacking skills (ie. Moon Pieces or Full Moon Bullet), but also give you more points to raise your healing skills higher. However, it may be worth raising Dodge if you are building your healer for 2vs2 as you would have more opportunities to use it safely in juggles without putting you or your teammate in too much risk.

Should I use Moonlight Pieces whenever it's up?
No, please no. Moon Pieces is a wonderful damage spell, as it can hit up to 7-8 times rather frequently on people if they get hit by it. While this may work in casual PvP, if you aim to fight people who PvP often, they will likely know how to avoid Moon Pieces all together. While Moon Pieces hurts a lot, it is very easily avoided simply by dashing in a triangular formation, or just to the side. In fact, you can even run away from the Moon Pieces as they are no faster than dashing. Not only that, but Moon Pieces has a rather long after-cast delay that leaves you very vulnerable, so it would be best to avoid using this skill carelessly.

Moon Pieces should only be used when you see a predictable running pattern in your opponent. If your opponent is running vertically downward, perpendicular to you, you can cast Moon Pieces at a downward diagonal so the Pieces will end up catching your opponent when they continue on their predictable path. Another time Moon Pieces can be very useful is when you're fighting an aggressive opponent who insists on instantly dashing toward you when you knock them down. With this you can knock someone away with Full Moon Bullet and predict that they'll come charging at you so you immediately use Moon Pieces afterward for the full blow. Other than that, it is simply best to use Moon Pieces as a pressure tool that keeps your opponent moving and scared to attack, or to catch someone when they are locked in a spell cast delay. Due to the easy avoidability and rather long after-cast delay, it may be best to avoid maxing this and leaving it around 6-7.

Is Full Moon Bullet good for PvP?
Although it has been nerfed, in some ways, for PvP with the latest skill changes, Full Moon Bullet is still a great spell for PvP. While I say it is a great spell, it still has many flaws, flaws of which you definitely need to be careful of. Full Moon Bullet has a rather slow casting time, making it very easy to interrupt. Half a second may not sound long, but when it comes to PvP it is a very long time. Full Moon is now also split into multiple hits, meaning that the damage is divided amongst those hits, making the damage much less effective if you hit someone at the edge of it's range.

Full Moon Bullet cannot necessarily be thrown around carelessly because of the cast time and cooldown. It may be instinct to use it when someone is just about to hit you, but in reality you'd likely get hit first if they're already close. The best time I found to use Full Moon is when someone is approaching/chasing me, or when someone is trying to bait me. Full Moon is fast enough that the person has to almost be expecting it to avoid it so try to use it only when your opponent doesn't necessarily expect it, or cannot avoid it. On top of that, Full Moon is much less useful in combos now due to the fact that it pushes the target so far away and hitting 3-4 times (higher damage reduction effect) in the air. However, learn to use Full Moon Bullet well and it can easily be a very good source of damage, so it is definitely worth raising for it's damage.

NOTE: Ghosts of the opposing team who may be observing, or around, is a valid tracking target for Full Moon Bullet, so try to avoid using it near them as it may make your Full Moon go in a direction you don't want it to.

imported_john 01-13-2008 12:32 PM

hi sylphie! :D

can you include a section on Moonlight Chain?

Kismet 01-13-2008 12:33 PM

Moonlight Chain = useless to me XD. I never found a safe use for it since it's so slow and inconsistent. However, if anyone gives a good case where it is consistently useful and worth it, I'll gladly add it.

imported_john 01-13-2008 12:38 PM

well for me I use it in

AASAAAA dash AS holy spirit -> chain right away if theres a wall that holy spirit can use to hold up the opponent for awhile, then tears dash AS dodge

sure the damage goes down, but hey its a combo :X

Kismet 01-13-2008 12:46 PM

True, that could work. If you managed to get that to hit every time then it could be a nice extra bit of damage if you needed it. However, I personally don't feel that the little damage that it gives is worth its heavy mana cost. Plus you could probably instead do " " dash AS Holy Spirit (canceled) dash (may need to cancel based on distance) AAAA halfdash AAAA etc. I never tried that before, but just kind of saying I'd personally rather not spend the heavy mana on Moonlight Chain and try to find another way to continue a combo. If mana isn't a problem for you though and the combo works almost all the time, then by all means it is useful :)

imported_john 01-13-2008 12:55 PM

lol what about moon barrier then?

Kismet 01-13-2008 01:00 PM

Moon Barrier can be very useful if applied correctly (although I'm sure it'd be very frowned upon by people and deemed cowardly). You could set up a barrier in order to gain a major environmental advantage considering it'd eliminate any straight line of attack against you. Not only does it cause obstruction, but it also negates a lot of attacks, such as Fire Bomb, Fire Orb, etc.

Moon Barrier takes a little practice and adjusting to use because it's more of a way to make someone go where you want in a defensive sense. You can set up a Moon Barrier so your opponent can approach you from only one of two sides, which can allow you to easily move away, or catch them while they're moving there. Since you can also go through Moon Barrier, and your opponent can't, if you position it so your Barrier is behind you and your opponent is in front of you, they cannot pull a full straight combo since they will be obstructed by the barrier and you'd travel through it.

These are just a few uses, and I'm sure there's more. Primarily a defensive spell in PvP but it can be very useful when used correctly. Just...get ready for some whining.

flsg 01-13-2008 01:21 PM

I think moonlight chain is very useful, even though I only have one point in it. It's the BEST lurer EVER. If you stand there for 3 seconds the opponent will come and try to combo you. Then you simply use holy shout+dash, sacred waves or some other skills that have short casting time. I can't remember how many times I tricked the enemy into attacking me lol

the damage is great if you max it. PLUS it doesnt juggle. Also it gives me an indication for casting another skill in the middle or right after moonlight chain. For example, I lock someone with moonlight chain, and if he's directly facing me, I cancel it by using moonlight pieces. almost a garanteed hit.

darkdestiny 01-13-2008 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EirEir (Post 117909)
I think moonlight chain is very useful, even though I only have one point in it. It's the BEST lurer EVER. If you stand there for 3 seconds the opponent will come and try to combo you. Then you simply use holy shout+dash, sacred waves or some other skills that have short casting time. I can't remember how many times I tricked the enemy into attacking me lol

the damage is great if you max it. PLUS it doesnt juggle. Also it gives me an indication for casting another skill in the middle or right after moonlight chain. For example, I lock someone with moonlight chain, and if he's directly facing me, I cancel it by using moonlight pieces. almost a garanteed hit.

The problem actually starts right off at moon chain actually hitting. I love the skill for strategical purposes but the chances of it hitting an experienced player is rare. It actually manages to hit me a lot of the times, but that's because I tend to hold back many skills when PvP. If it's in an actual PvP where both sides go all out, the problem in standing still is that other classes can instantly rape you with one of their skills. A Sieg can provoke to grab you instantly for heavy damage and a Dain can fury of land then fire orb for 800 damage if all the hits connect and start a combo after you get caught from fire orb.

riceburner4540 01-13-2008 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kismet (Post 117809)
However if your playstyle uses Dodge in combos, such as AAS dash AS Dodge (reverse direction) AAAA etc.

That works? Hmm.

That's a pretty nice general guide, I would've given similar advice although my opinions on FMB are the total opposite of yours.

imported_Citrine 01-13-2008 03:39 PM

Quote:

I'm so slow, how do I catch up to someone who's running?
Someone who runs, and runs well, is a huge problem for an Eir to deal with. All of her spells are rather slow traveling, making it very difficult to hit the opponent with a skill when they are running. One way to deal with runners is to use Moon Fog in their path as they approach a wall or corner, as hitting them with Moon Fog would snare them. Another way is to use Sacred Wave to fit in some damage and disrupt their running a little bit. Unfortunately, both these skills are of higher level (50 and 48 respectively).
mm there not that slow xD in my opinion. But well i dont pvp much but bleh.

Kismet 01-13-2008 03:47 PM

riceburner- That Dodge combo may rely on a higher level Dodge than level 1. My Dodge was I think....level 3 or 4? I was also able to do AA Dodge (reverse direction) AAAA, or something along those lines, as well.

riceburner4540 01-13-2008 04:13 PM

Yeah, I know you can AA dodge, turn etc. but I don't believe it's possible to AASAAAA dash AS dodge, turn, because regardless of level of Dodge, the opponent drops to the ground almost instantly after it. There's only one spell that can hit after any level Dodge, and that's Sacred Wave. It's actually not even possible to hit Sacred Wave after Dodge on AASAAAA dash AS Dodge if your Dodge is high level. It needs to be either level 1, or you need to give yourself more air.

darkbluehated 01-17-2008 02:18 AM

What's the basic combo for Eir now?

I still remember the combos back then but it's been quite a long time since I've played... >_<

Also, did Eir's moves change any? o_o

riceburner4540 01-17-2008 03:41 AM

Since you last played? Nope. Eir's basic combo is still AA (Skill) or AASAAAA dash AS (Skill) or any variation thereof.


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