ggFTW

MMORPG Gamer Community


Go Back   ggFTW Forum > Archive Material (Read Only) > Retired Forums > Retired Games > Megaten > Megaten General Chat

Prius Online
Looking for a new MMO?

Try 

Prius Online

Rating:  

7.6

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
12-12-2008   #1 (permalink)
/gg FTW! Regular
Kris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: France
Posts: 75
iTrader: (0)
Kris is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Kris
Unhappy Sad facts about SMT

A friend of mine recently linked me this blog entry regarding SMT, titled "SMT Online: Imagine, And Why It Is Failing."

The entry was posted about 10 days ago, and the poster has a couple high level characters (lv80+) on the JP version.

Quote:
Currently Imagine has 5 towns, 5 fields and 6 dungeons:

Towns:
3rd Home
Shinjuku Babel
Arcadia
Souhonzan
Protopia

Fields:
Suginami
Nakano
Shibuya
Ichigaya
Shinagawa

Dungeons:
Suginami Mine
Ichigaya Garrison
Shibuya Quartz
Cell Tower
Suzaku Caverns
Shinagawa Catacombs

In terms of towns, other than repairs/supplies, there isn’t a point to head of to Arcadia/Souhonzan/Protopia so people tend to gather around 3rd home or Shinjuku, depending on which dungeon they are hunting in.

In terms of fields, no one hunts there, less Shinagawa during new moons, since the xp field mobs gives are much lower than those in the dungeons, and the fields hardly have any mobs above level 30.

In terms of dungeons, Imagine has this concept of bronze/silver/gold version of a dungeon. The map is the same for all 3 version, just that the mobs that populate it are different, and there may be a slight mechanic difference.

Other than Suginami Mines and Ichigaya Garrison, the other dungeons suffer from long empty hallways and/or low mob density issues. You end up spending more time walking around, rather than fighting if you try to xp in a dungeon other than Ichigaya or Suginami.

Also, they are currently only 2 gold level dungeons, which are once again Ichigaya and Suginami.

Questing for xp is a nonexistent concept since there are close to 0 quests in the game, other than the main storyline quest they call acts.

In terms of items, practically nothing is better than CP items, or items gotten from their item malls. A lot of things are tied to their item mall as well, including things like weapon manufacturing and items enchanting.

Due to rampart RMTing on the JP servers, it’s possible to get some common CP items using makka, the in-game currency. But until fairly recently, makka has very little worth as you make way more makka than you spend them, resulting in everyone easily having millions stocked up.

In addition to the above, Cave, Imagine’s developer has an “interesting” twist to your usual item malls: fortune cards.

It’s basically a form of lottery. There is a list of possible rewards, and you get a random reward from the list each time you attempt it. They usually last for a month before they change the rewards.

Out of this list, some are rare rewards, some are common rewards and some are super common rewards etc…

1 CP is the equivalent of 10 yen or US$0.10.

There are currently 6 different fortune cards line up, and the cheapest one cost 15CP or US$1.50 a try and the most expensive one cost 60CP or US$6.00 a try.

They also held “special” fortune cards sometimes, e.g. currently, there’s a fortune card that cost 300cp, or US$30 a try.

The top reward usually have a 2-4% chance of it happening, which means that on average, you have to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars to get them, and you have a limited time to “play” the lottery before they are gone.

The gold level dungeons are tuned to a certain gear level and in order to reach that, items from lotteries are needed as there are no non-cp alternatives. e.g. things like material sequencers which prevent your weapon from exploding on a failed modification etc…

Armor/weapon from lotteries are also significantly stronger than their non-cp counterparts.
A normal melee ring adds +3 str. A cp lottery ring adds +15% melee damage and 5% xp.
Normal armor has 0 effects, cp armor can have something like +10% melee damage, +20% more damage against certain mobs.

There are 3 main character archetype in the game, melee, gunners and mages.

At the beginning till around August 2007, melee are fairly weak as they don’t have easy access to elemental weapons. Once they have them however, they start to elapse past gunners/mages in terms of DPS and survivability.

Melee are now capable of doing single/AE version of nearly every damage type. Gunner are limited to single target and mages are limited to only single/AE version of 4 damage type; fire/ice/lightning/wind.

This imbalance was pretty obvious when people ran suginami gold but is sort of resolved itself when it comes to ichigaya gold as fire damage is about the only thing needed in there, and AE damage isn’t that important.

Still, melee continue to complain that they are underpowered in both the English and Japanese community and as a result, lotteries are tuned more towards them, widening the gap between melee and the rest.

Thankfully there isn’t any pvp, or melee will probably dominate everyone.

The level grind past 85 is pretty horrid as well:


85 97,400,000
86 110,050,000
87 162,000,000
88 264,000,000
89 354,000,000
90 696,409,989
91 1,392,819,977
92 2,089,229,966

You need around 2b xp to level from 92 to 93, the current cap. 2b xp is enough to get you from 1->89. 1 round of ichigaya gold bring around 500k-600k xp. You will need about 4178 rounds to clear 92->93. 1 round take about 5-10mins to clear at max efficiency.

This 5-10mins efficiency can only be reach if everyone in the party uses CP run speed/damage increasing items.

4178 * 5 => 20890 minutes or 348 hrs. Even if you spam 5x xp up for 30mins fragrance from the lotteries, it’s still 69hrs.

Without CP consumables, a full group will clear the place in around 10-15mins, effectively doubling the time required to a hefty 696hrs.

Can’t field a full party all the time? Increase that to 15-20mins a round, resulting in 1044hrs.

If you play for 4hrs a day, it’ll take you 261 days to clear 92 to 93.

Even at max efficiency, unless you play way more than 4hrs a day, it’ll take you a good 87 days to clear 92 to 93.

There isn’t that much of a point to hit max level either. You tend to max out your main combat stat around mid 60s and you only get a fairly minimal damage boast every 10 levels. There are currently no devils above 85 either and devils as a whole are useless, except to attract mob attention.

A lot of people intending to play the English version think that they can rear up a particular devil they like and use it forever. Unfortunately that isn’t true.

If you run sugi gold, you will use a devil capable of using fog breath and/or void/resist piercing attacks.
If you run ichigaya gold, you will use a devil that void magical/psyche attacks and/or one that voids ice.

Use anything else and your devil will be dead most of the time, unless you intend to leech xp off other people.

There are of course bugs that exist since the JP closed beta that has yet to be fixed.
Offhand, pathing issue around the door in Ichigaya’s boss room is one.
Characters/devils being unable to move after using a skill with charge time is another.
Not zoning correctly as well.

To summarize: Cave is just out to maximize profits with their lotteries.

There are hardly any content and they aren’t making much of an effort to improve them.

There isn’t any PvP and the difference between a level 65 char and a level 93 one is minimal.

Literally the ONLY thing to do in here is to grind to max level, wait for cap to be raise, then grind again.

Play Imagine only if you can stand the above.

Currently, on the JP server, the 80+ population has significantly reduced, but what do I know about high level gameplay? I’m “only” level 88 and my alt is level 85…

I wonder how many fanbois will look at this post with rose-tinted glasses and bash me for this post.
Link

I kinda figured the lack of content and pvp would be a problem in the long run. But I didn't know about the cash shop dependency and the fact you need specific demons to do end game dungeon runs.

The game was very fun for me, but I don't see myself doing thousands of Suginami Tunnels Gold runs as "endgame content".
__________________

Last edited by Kris; 12-12-2008 at 01:27 PM.
 
Get rid of this ad by registering for our community.
12-12-2008   #2 (permalink)
ビリビリ
Fineti's Avatar
Games
Sword 2Trickster OnlineDungeon Fighter OnlineEmil Chronicle Online
Awards Pervert Award
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,138
Blog Entries: 1
iTrader: (1)
Fineti has much to be proud ofFineti has much to be proud ofFineti has much to be proud ofFineti has much to be proud ofFineti has much to be proud ofFineti has much to be proud ofFineti has much to be proud ofFineti has much to be proud of
Default

Most of this is old news to me, but I didn't know they had loltickets... Oh well, I'll continue my not-getting-them spree from Trickster.

I was just thinking earlier today how this game needs some real high-level content, and not the same dungeons as before but with higher level monsters. Of course I can always hope they will add it, but who knows.

This doesn't change my like for the game, and I already knew they could have made it much better. (Like, if Atlus made it themselves?) If anything I'll wait for the official release before passing judgment.
__________________
 
12-12-2008   #3 (permalink)
/gg FTW! Lurker
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ON, Canada
Posts: 8
iTrader: (0)
Phenyl is on a distinguished road
Default

I think the worst part about this game is lack of endgame content, especially PvP.

There are people in the CB who've already beaten the entire storyline, and honestly there's really nothing else to do after that point since there's no real motivation to keep grinding.
 
12-12-2008   #4 (permalink)
/gg FTW! Moogler
Badger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: United States of Badger
Posts: 159
iTrader: (0)
Badger is on a distinguished road
IGN: Badger
Class: Knight lt_knight
Guild: Syndicate
Default

I'm interested in how Aeria is going to manage a content release schedule with this...

Will they lock out act 9+ in OB and some areas or will they just keep everything the way it is now and slowly introduce the missing things with every update being a CS update?
__________________
 
12-12-2008   #5 (permalink)
ビリビリ
Fineti's Avatar
Games
Sword 2Trickster OnlineDungeon Fighter OnlineEmil Chronicle Online
Awards Pervert Award
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,138
Blog Entries: 1
iTrader: (1)
Fineti has much to be proud ofFineti has much to be proud ofFineti has much to be proud ofFineti has much to be proud ofFineti has much to be proud ofFineti has much to be proud ofFineti has much to be proud ofFineti has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger
I'm interested in how Aeria is going to manage a content release schedule with this...

Will they lock out act 9+ in OB and some areas or will they just keep everything the way it is now and slowly introduce the missing things with every update being a CS update?
I'm on Act 14 right now, and I've already been to all the dungeons. It seems strange, but I haven't noticed anything that's in the Japanese server that isn't in this one yet. (Besides the cash shop and event stuff obviously.)
__________________
 
12-12-2008   #6 (permalink)
/gg FTW! Regular
CactuarJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 58
iTrader: (0)
CactuarJoe is on a distinguished road
Default

I'm already noticing a number of things that agree with that (admittedly bloody huge) post. Monsters on the field are pathetic in terms of Exp compared to dungeon critters, but I think the lack of quests is going to be a much bigger problem, especially with players who have to deal with the death penalty more than a couple times.

As for the three common archetypes mentioned, I think the claim that you can only make three kinds of characters is a bit simplified. There are enough abilities, and enough variety in those abilities, that I can see archetypes being split into far more than just three - defensive melee, offensive melee, gunner, magic gunner, support mage and offensive mage, just to begin with.

The Exp tables listed are... Well, insane, quite frankly. It really makes me question the mind of whoever balanced this system. Who thought it would be a good idea to double the amount of Exp required for every level above 89? Madness.

"A lot of people intending to play the English version think that they can rear up a particular devil they like and use it forever. Unfortunately that isn’t true."

This, though, I didn't find that shocking. It's pretty typical for SMT games to require the use of certain demons, or at the very least certain abilities, to progress past a certain point. The series encourages flexibility, not attachment to a specific partner, so sticking with a single demon was never really a viable idea.

"I wonder how many fanbois will look at this post with rose-tinted glasses and bash me for this post."

I've seen people close an entry or post with this kind of line before, and it always gets my goat. It strikes me as being an attempt to preempt and discredit criticism before it begins, which is neither a good idea nor a particularly convincing way to get one's point across.

But anyway. It definitely looks like the game has some problems, but what I'm wondering is whether or not the story is finished. I can't stand grinding, so chances are I'll stop when the story gives out.
 
12-12-2008   #7 (permalink)
ggFTW Stalker
Rusty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 350
iTrader: (0)
Rusty is on a distinguished road
Default

That's a lot to read.

I stopped pretty early in, but I get the gist that there's absolutely no content whatsoever.

I wonder how long the game will last.

I only bored currently because I always play alone.

I have yet to party in a dungeon ANYWHERE, and I don't feel like grinding to 25 for the stupid quests.

Everyone keeps mentioning no PvP being bad...

PvP is a gimmick, and I for one am glad there is no PvP.

Last edited by Rusty; 12-12-2008 at 11:56 PM.
 
12-13-2008   #8 (permalink)
Certified Stalker
Ildanach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Reality, yeah it sucks.
Posts: 662
iTrader: (0)
Ildanach is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactuarJoe
As for the three common archetypes mentioned, I think the claim that you can only make three kinds of characters is a bit simplified. There are enough abilities, and enough variety in those abilities, that I can see archetypes being split into far more than just three - defensive melee, offensive melee, gunner, magic gunner, support mage and offensive mage, just to begin with.

"A lot of people intending to play the English version think that they can rear up a particular devil they like and use it forever. Unfortunately that isnít true."

This, though, I didn't find that shocking. It's pretty typical for SMT games to require the use of certain demons, or at the very least certain abilities, to progress past a certain point. The series encourages flexibility, not attachment to a specific partner, so sticking with a single demon was never really a viable idea.

But anyway. It definitely looks like the game has some problems, but what I'm wondering is whether or not the story is finished. I can't stand grinding, so chances are I'll stop when the story gives out.
Isn't that still three? Doesn't matter what weapon you use, your skill build will still undoubtedly follow one of those three branches: melee, magic or gunner. Unless you are going hybrid for other reason than expertise skill, which will screw you in the long run. Also maybe it's just me, but I find that defensive and support build are useless, that's where your demon come in.

Well the thing is, we only got like what? Maximum 8 slots for Demon? Heck you even have to fill 100 Demon Compendium to get the last slot. Unless, of course, you are willing to pay for the Demon Depository. It's obvious that you can't expect non-cs user to keep that much of demon unless you are doing your research extensively beforehand.

Sigh, this is pretty much blew whatever hope I have for this game, well still good to pass time, I guess, provided the lag is gone.

Last edited by Ildanach; 12-13-2008 at 12:17 AM.
 
12-13-2008   #9 (permalink)
/gg FTW! Regular
CactuarJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 58
iTrader: (0)
CactuarJoe is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ildanach
Isn't that still three? Doesn't matter what weapon you use, your skill build will still undoubtedly follow one of those three branches: melee, magic or gunner. Unless you are going hybrid for other reason than expertise skill, which will screw you in the long run. Also maybe it's just me, but I find that defensive and support build are useless, that's where your demon come in.

Well the thing is, we only got like what? Maximum 8 slots for Demon? Heck you even have to fill 100 Demon Compendium to get the last slot. Unless, of course, you are willing to pay for the Demon Depository. It's obvious that you can't expect non-cs user to keep that much of demon unless you are doing your research extensively beforehand.

Sigh, this is pretty much blew whatever hope I have for this game, well still good to pass time, I guess, provided the lag is gone.
Well, for my money, an offensive melee character would play differently enough from a defensively built one to warrant a mention. As for support/defensive being useless, that's nonsense. You can have demons handle offense the same as you can have defensive ones - it's just a matter of which role you want to personally take care of.

As for the demon thing, I would say staying flexible with a max of 8 slots (which I'm not sure is right, either) would be somewhat difficult, but hardly impossible. A max of 10 or 12 would be more comfortable, but I don't think the number of slots is as big a stumbling block as the summoning costs. So far, I've noticed the costs of summoning non-alignment demons has been a bit high - around 400, while my Magnetite hovers around 1500.
 
12-13-2008   #10 (permalink)
/gg FTW! Lurker
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ON, Canada
Posts: 8
iTrader: (0)
Phenyl is on a distinguished road
Default

Aeria's version of the game is actually fairly recent (all the acts up to 16 - the latest - are in it I think) so unless Cave really starts releasing more content, we probably won't be seeing much more than CS stuff, bug/translation fixes, and events from Aeria for a while.

I still think PvP as a faction vs. faction type thing would work well considering the game already splits up players into Law, Neutral and Chaos.

As for demon slots, what's the need for so many?
 
03-07-2009   #11 (permalink)
MMOG Lurker
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2
iTrader: (0)
Athos is on a distinguished road
Default

Megaten is a very good game but yes, what the OP wrote is 100% true (and i did read all of it ).
Cave are indeed only interested in milking the cash shop to the max without adding any new content, without any concern for fixing bugs or doing any effort at all.
There is another issue that is worth mentioning: Cave (the developer) is not interested in player suggestions at all (there is no communication, there are no polls, no surveys no nothing), they rely on GMs to convey suggestions, but GMs will mostly discredit and belittle almost any suggestion made in the forums.
To make things worse, the fanboys are extremely hostile and will attack any suggestion/complaint fiercely, and they are defended by the GMs who will justify their behaviour.
I think most of the decent users dont post in the megaten forums anymore, its not worth the trouble.
Megaten has great potential but i dont see this game going anywhere,( both Cave and the immature fanboy community are contributing equally to that).
Its sad to see a good game idea being wasted like this.
 
03-07-2009   #12 (permalink)
「 薬売り 」
Special
Kusuriuri's Avatar
Games
Trickster OnlineEden EternalMapleStoryRagnarok Online
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In your panty drawer.
Posts: 5,173
iTrader: (7)
Kusuriuri has disabled reputation
Send a message via MSN to Kusuriuri Send a message via Skype™ to Kusuriuri
Default

Quote:
You need around 2b xp to level from 92 to 93, the current cap. 2b xp is enough to get you from 1->89. 1 round of ichigaya gold bring around 500k-600k xp. You will need about 4178 rounds to clear 92->93. 1 round take about 5-10mins to clear at max efficiency.

This 5-10mins efficiency can only be reach if everyone in the party uses CP run speed/damage increasing items.

4178 * 5 => 20890 minutes or 348 hrs. Even if you spam 5x xp up for 30mins fragrance from the lotteries, it’s still 69hrs.

Without CP consumables, a full group will clear the place in around 10-15mins, effectively doubling the time required to a hefty 696hrs.

Can’t field a full party all the time? Increase that to 15-20mins a round, resulting in 1044hrs.

If you play for 4hrs a day, it’ll take you 261 days to clear 92 to 93.

Even at max efficiency, unless you play way more than 4hrs a day, it’ll take you a good 87 days to clear 92 to 93.



....



Holy freaking shit.
__________________

モノノ怪
 
03-07-2009   #13 (permalink)
▄█▀█●
Special
Catharsis's Avatar
Games
Trickster OnlineIkariamSword 2La Tale
Awards Retired Forum ManagementEvent Winner
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Westeros
Posts: 2,298
Blog Entries: 16
iTrader: (0)
Catharsis has a reputation beyond reputeCatharsis has a reputation beyond reputeCatharsis has a reputation beyond reputeCatharsis has a reputation beyond reputeCatharsis has a reputation beyond reputeCatharsis has a reputation beyond reputeCatharsis has a reputation beyond reputeCatharsis has a reputation beyond reputeCatharsis has a reputation beyond reputeCatharsis has a reputation beyond reputeCatharsis has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
There is another issue that is worth mentioning: Cave (the developer) is not interested in player suggestions at all (there is no communication, there are no polls, no surveys no nothing), they rely on GMs to convey suggestions, but GMs will mostly discredit and belittle almost any suggestion made in the forums.
To make things worse, the fanboys are extremely hostile and will attack any suggestion/complaint fiercely, and they are defended by the GMs who will justify their behaviour.
This is worrisome. It sounds even worse than Ntreev. Are you talking about the English version? Maybe Aeria will be more... customer-oriented.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodVeil
Holy freaking shit.
That's how I reacted, too. O_O;
Is there even any benefit to maxing out your level other than bragging rights?
__________________
Not all those who wander are lost.

Last edited by Catharsis; 03-07-2009 at 10:47 AM.
 
03-07-2009   #14 (permalink)
MMOG Lurker
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2
iTrader: (0)
Athos is on a distinguished road
Default

I am talking about the english version, and thats my main complaint about it: its not at all "customer oriented". I have a small hope that Cave will realize that this approach is not going to work in the US, even if it was successful in Japan, time will tell.
The benefits of getting to max level.... a few skills/spells, a few fancy items...and a lot of bragging rights.
Now dont get the wrong idea, despite the game not being finished, it is fun, it is worth playing and there are things to do and see and discover....just not enough of it.
The problem is i see no future for this game, as there are no signs of serious development, no communication whatsoever, a cash shop that can only be described as a rip-off, and a small over-zealous community that will regard most suggestions and complaints as an offense.
All we can do is wait and see if anything changes, if not this game is destined to either close or become a small and insignificant niche game populated only by most ardent fans.
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Pockie Ninja
Need a new browser game?

Try 

Pockie Ninja

Rating:  

8.3
Hide this banner by registering for our community.