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11-02-2012   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfernalGuy
Well that is my personal opinion. Why compensate weaknesses when you can push strenghts?

At lvl 14x I have 2k+ DP when Light Shield is casted and 10kish HP (no MS) and I don't even need to spam SoH... That's legit to me
I get about 22xx DP with a level 150, 1441 build.
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11-02-2012   #22 (permalink)
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Ok, I get what you're saying. You're cool and I'm not...
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11-02-2012   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfernalGuy
Well that is my personal opinion. Why compensate weaknesses when you can push strenghts?

At lvl 14x I have 2k+ DP when Light Shield is casted and 10kish HP (no MS) and I don't even need to spam SoH... That's legit to me
I guess he has a point, he has a pumped-up DP due to natural 4 in CHARM and adding Light Shield which boosts 15% DP at mastery. But the weight problems HORROR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare
A build that I would not recommend for any Light. It's almost impossible to die in PvM with SoH (unless you're careless or just unlucky), so the 4 in Charm is not needed at all while LK, DA and very valuable WT are being sacrificed.
I do get confused , since Light Hybrids with SoH don't die, why pump a 3 or 4 (or even a 2) in CHARM?
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11-02-2012   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuPets
I do get confused , since Light Hybrids with SoH don't die, why pump a 3 or 4 (or even a 2) in CHARM?
That was my point exactly. Why? It's a complete waste of 3 points that could be put in Sense. And as you said, the horror of crappy WT. I hate it, I hate repotting, I hate using WT pouches (more like spending money on them) so that's a no-go for me.

It is definitely people's preference what they want to do with their builds. It could be a 4 in anything for all I care; I just don't understand a decision that doesn't seem logical. 2k DP or whatnot, it really doesn't matter. On the low level maps, you just won't die. At Beetles, Self Destruct does a 6-digit figure damage, so nothing will save you (unless you're one of those 100k+ HP Charms). Ice Bears will almost always kill you after they stun you. Elsewhere, the chances of dying are slim to none. Maybe it does make a difference in some situations, but the bad still outweighs the good.
 
11-02-2012   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare
That was my point exactly. Why? It's a complete waste of 3 points that could be put in Sense. And as you said, the horror of crappy WT. I hate it, I hate repotting, I hate using WT pouches (more like spending money on them) so that's a no-go for me.

It is definitely people's preference what they want to do with their builds. It could be a 4 in anything for all I care; I just don't understand a decision that doesn't seem logical. 2k DP or whatnot, it really doesn't matter. On the low level maps, you just won't die. At Beetles, Self Destruct does a 6-digit figure damage, so nothing will save you (unless you're one of those 100k+ HP Charms). Ice Bears will almost always kill you after they stun you. Elsewhere, the chances of dying are slim to none. Maybe it does make a difference in some situations, but the bad still outweighs the good.

Errr.. I was referring to what your siblings (or whatever you guys are) Vare and Care said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vare
1414 is the superior build
Quote:
Originally Posted by Care
1414 would be the superior build. But if you don't feel like having to use a pouch, you could go 1423 instead. Otherwise I'd also say go 1414.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Care
My personal preference: Only Light Mages should use 1441.
..but this is, after all, a Soul Master thread, and Soul Masters don't have access to SoH.

So bottom line, 1414 or 1423 is better for Soul Masters, while 1441 is better for Light Hybrids, right?

I am so confused and I am planning to make a Magic Type character so might as well read and post questions

Thanks to the experts who give advices so that I won't mess up my future Mage
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11-03-2012   #26 (permalink)
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@KungFu: I never really understood why it's extremely difficult for some people to choose builds after playing for some time. If you're new to the whole game then yeah, but if you aren't, you should have at least some clue with what you're doing and not have people spoon feed you everything.

Times have changed with each major patch. Newly pumped out MS equipments receiving higher and higher stats than previous releases and new skills flip our builds and equipment. With those and the general consensus that it's not the build, but [Myshop] equipments that make our characters, players[that spend] can pretty much go whatever route they want because it doesn't really matter anymore, since you find ways to balance.

Personally, I think weight is the most useless stat in the game and should just be scrapped all together. It's because of that dumb aspect, we are pretty much forced to do things a certain way, for some classes. Without it, all the things we can do better.

---

The breakdown:

These should be the only things that you need to think about honestly:

Are you a spender or a non spender?
&
Are you dedicated & willing to spend or not spend(for a weight pouch)?

Go 1414:
If you are willing to regularly recharge for a pouch.

Go any other build higher other than 1414 if you don't want to recharge for a pouch.

Simple.

---

Honestly, the builds don't even matter anymore. I find that if you are averagely Myshop geared, regardless of build, you pump out at least a minimum of +200 LK on your gear. That is purely enough to hit 85% of monsters in the game. You can work with any build and still do well. Low luck? Just lol-comp 1 or 2 pieces of LK eq laying around or get a fortune and it's done. Simple.
Low HP? Just lol-comp 1 or 2 pieces of extra HP equipment laying around. Simple.

You don't need to be confused over something so simple. It's all either cash vs. no cash.

---

If you aren't dedicated and are just trying out SM just for the lols, please do yourself a favor and just don't go a 1414 and play it safe. HP and DP are easy to make up, free or payer. If anyone says otherwise, you are seriously not trying at all.

Edit: I still have a ton more to cover like end game and levels, but I don't want to overload.
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Last edited by Almora; 11-03-2012 at 12:04 AM.
 
11-03-2012   #27 (permalink)
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IMO, If you had a great shield to use, you wouldn't need to put many points into charm.
 
11-03-2012   #28 (permalink)
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My response in spoilers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almora
@KungFu: I never really understood why it's extremely difficult for some people to choose builds after playing for some time. If you're new to the whole game then yeah, but if you aren't, you should have at least some clue with what you're doing and not have people spoon feed you everything.

Spoiler!


Times have changed with each major patch. Newly pumped out MS equipments receiving higher and higher stats than previous releases and new skills flip our builds and equipment. With those and the general consensus that it's not the build, but [Myshop] equipments that make our characters, players[that spend] can pretty much go whatever route they want because it doesn't really matter anymore, since you find ways to balance.

Spoiler!


Personally, I think weight is the most useless stat in the game and should just be scrapped all together. It's because of that dumb aspect, we are pretty much forced to do things a certain way, for some classes. Without it, all the things we can do better.

---

The breakdown:

These should be the only things that you need to think about honestly:

Are you a spender or a non spender?
&
Are you dedicated & willing to spend or not spend(for a weight pouch)?

Go 1414:
If you are willing to regularly recharge for a pouch.

Go any other build higher other than 1414 if you don't want to recharge for a pouch.

Simple.

---

Honestly, the builds don't even matter anymore. I find that if you are averagely Myshop geared, regardless of build, you pump out at least a minimum of +200 LK on your gear. That is purely enough to hit 85% of monsters in the game. You can work with any build and still do well. Low luck? Just lol-comp 1 or 2 pieces of LK eq laying around or get a fortune and it's done. Simple.
Low HP? Just lol-comp 1 or 2 pieces of extra HP equipment laying around. Simple.

You don't need to be confused over something so simple. It's all either cash vs. no cash.

---

If you aren't dedicated and are just trying out SM just for the lols, please do yourself a favor and just don't go a 1414 and play it safe. HP and DP are easy to make up, free or payer. If anyone says otherwise, you are seriously not trying at all.

Edit: I still have a ton more to cover like end game and levels, but I don't want to overload.
Almora, thanks for the advices I do look forward to the endgame topic

Edit: As what I said, I was shocked since MOST (if not ALL) guides steered clear of the 1414 build. That's why I wanted to ask further. Thanks
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Last edited by KungFuPets; 11-03-2012 at 05:17 AM. Reason: Additional Info
 
11-03-2012   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
You know, not all of us (especially me) can freely buy MS. And I don't have that much galder, so at least I must get the correct build in order to avoid spending real money and getting corrective MS gears.
I was waiting for this specific response. I took the automatic cash explanation since it's rare for me to find people that don't spend on this game, whether directly or indirectly(buying your MS off from others) and playing purely on in game equipments. I only know of one person that has gotten into the 3xx's with in game equipment and a few mixes of Myshop.

But by no means am I saying that cash is the automatic way to determine your decision. I really only covered half of it, since I didn't want to confuse you. So basically what I wanted to get across in a more neutral standpoint is:

Go 1414 if you have access to full Myshop and go any other builds higher than 1414 if you don't have access to Myshop or a mix. And, whether if you are the type of person who is okay with very limited weight or not.

Hope that makes it easier to make your decision.

Quote:
Well, that's what guides and forums are for, so that we could ask others for opinions. I see nephilim12 has better ggftw stats than me so he must be better at this game. And yet he asks questions. What's wrong with me asking for a good build question?

And besides, almost everything is spoon-fed. Awesome guides are in the forums (to name a few: General Guardian FAQ, How Much MA is needed for.., A Brief Guide to Powerlevelling, etc.) Nothing is left for testing since most information is answered on forums, and thus less time wasted on trial and error, less money wasted on corrective MS items. Now isn't that more efficient?

And also, I can barely spend time to play this game, so as much as possible I better get it right on the first go since it will take some time to restart a new character, and costly to reset the stats or to get corrective gear.

I do love to read since it prepares me for the problems ahead. And it's always good to ask questions. And we are here to help each other out (guides, replies to posts, etc.)
I understand 100%. My apologies about the first paragraph though, it does look like it was written in an insulting way. I wasn't trying to look down on you in any way or direct it at you, it was me speaking in general terms. That's pretty much what happens when I opt to leave out a smiley or emoticon, it's not my style to include them in a serious discussion.

I've been on this forum for quite a while and I see the exact kind of people I described and it baffles me. In addition when I meant spoon fed, it was directed more towards people who are lazy to scout the information(already tested, described, broken down, explained) themselves via Search function.

Good to know you enjoy reading the information and guides out here. I don't see a problem with genuine ignorance.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuPets
My response in spoilers.



Almora, thanks for the advices I do look forward to the endgame topic

Edit: As what I said, I was shocked since MOST (if not ALL) guides steered clear of the 1414 build. That's why I wanted to ask further. Thanks
Yeah that's fine. Most of the magic guides are outdated save 1 or two. Mines isn't updated either so I didn't get the chance to reword my opinion of 1414 now.

I do see 1414 as a superior build for end game non-light mages in this age of Trickster.

Reasons are:
-Most have access to their end game MS equipment, all comped and prepped. They are either bought indirectly or directly. The users of the respective classes are experienced and have 100% control of what they want/vision that works.

-Once we've reached 400, you don't need as much weight to support your grinding needs. The things we often participate in are bossing and CT. The weight of the equipment rewards are just about right to not make us fat. So, we don't need that surplus of 4 in sense and the loss of LK is pretty much easy to make up for via the options I provided before.

-Tying back in with "we don't need as much weight for our grinding needs," we don't need to lug around as much MP pots too. We are lucky to have cure, which in turn lessens our need for HP pots, resulting in less occupied weight as well.

-Because of those points, I definitely see a more favorable route in terms of all around efficiency, in PvP or PvE(end game usually).

However, people like Lyn and I for the most part, can't stand the minimal weight. I know Lyn collects fuses so that WILL add up to quite a lot of occupied weight.

For me, it irks me to get fat with only picking up 5-8 pieces of high level equipment. I hoard questies, altiverses and MP pots like no tomorrow. My computer can't handle dual clienting, so constantly switching over to the family computer is a pain just to load up a mule for storage.

It really is preference and a necessity for some.

This is written from a standpoint of going the 1414 without the weight pouch. Of course if you do have a weight pouch, you pretty much have nothing to worry about and have unlimited access to weight.
---

Good luck!
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11-03-2012   #30 (permalink)
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Also, if you frequently do fiesta, you have a chance of getting 1 WT potions which are VERY useful for low-sense builds. As an SM, you probably won't have much trouble collecting Fiesta Marbles, so you'll be stacking up on these potions pretty easily.
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11-05-2012   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almora
I was waiting for this specific response. I took the automatic cash explanation since it's rare for me to find people that don't spend on this game, whether directly or indirectly(buying your MS off from others) and playing purely on in game equipments. I only know of one person that has gotten into the 3xx's with in game equipment and a few mixes of Myshop.

But by no means am I saying that cash is the automatic way to determine your decision. I really only covered half of it, since I didn't want to confuse you. So basically what I wanted to get across in a more neutral standpoint is:

Go 1414 if you have access to full Myshop and go any other builds higher than 1414 if you don't have access to Myshop or a mix. And, whether if you are the type of person who is okay with very limited weight or not.

Hope that makes it easier to make your decision.



I understand 100%. My apologies about the first paragraph though, it does look like it was written in an insulting way. I wasn't trying to look down on you in any way or direct it at you, it was me speaking in general terms. That's pretty much what happens when I opt to leave out a smiley or emoticon, it's not my style to include them in a serious discussion.

I've been on this forum for quite a while and I see the exact kind of people I described and it baffles me. In addition when I meant spoon fed, it was directed more towards people who are lazy to scout the information(already tested, described, broken down, explained) themselves via Search function.

Good to know you enjoy reading the information and guides out here. I don't see a problem with genuine ignorance.





Yeah that's fine. Most of the magic guides are outdated save 1 or two. Mines isn't updated either so I didn't get the chance to reword my opinion of 1414 now.

I do see 1414 as a superior build for end game non-light mages in this age of Trickster.

Reasons are:
-Most have access to their end game MS equipment, all comped and prepped. They are either bought indirectly or directly. The users of the respective classes are experienced and have 100% control of what they want/vision that works.

-Once we've reached 400, you don't need as much weight to support your grinding needs. The things we often participate in are bossing and CT. The weight of the equipment rewards are just about right to not make us fat. So, we don't need that surplus of 4 in sense and the loss of LK is pretty much easy to make up for via the options I provided before.

-Tying back in with "we don't need as much weight for our grinding needs," we don't need to lug around as much MP pots too. We are lucky to have cure, which in turn lessens our need for HP pots, resulting in less occupied weight as well.

-Because of those points, I definitely see a more favorable route in terms of all around efficiency, in PvP or PvE(end game usually).

However, people like Lyn and I for the most part, can't stand the minimal weight. I know Lyn collects fuses so that WILL add up to quite a lot of occupied weight.

For me, it irks me to get fat with only picking up 5-8 pieces of high level equipment. I hoard questies, altiverses and MP pots like no tomorrow. My computer can't handle dual clienting, so constantly switching over to the family computer is a pain just to load up a mule for storage.

It really is preference and a necessity for some.

This is written from a standpoint of going the 1414 without the weight pouch. Of course if you do have a weight pouch, you pretty much have nothing to worry about and have unlimited access to weight.
---

Good luck!
I've played before but left for about a year I guess, back then 1432 was the "famous" SM build (I've read most of the guides and talked to high leveled persons in game) but as I read their sentiments about 1414, I was shocked.

1414 builds are for Earth/Wind sheeps back then.

and mostly, magic types pump Ma not Hp. I wanna try the Fire/Electric SM mainly for bossing but I do not like to have 2 sheeps with the same element (one SM and one Light Witch) thats why I don't want a Fire/Electric SM in the first place

The light witch helps me earn galders thru powerleveling.

I've been curious about Water/Electric SMs since according to guides that I've read they are the superior boss hunting elements.

if Ma is that easy to get, then I might go pure HP (I only have Powerful Equipment for 140 to boost my MA and DP)

I am also not a fan of Sense Stat although I feel the need for the Weight (I too hoard quest items)

I could spend money for pouches, although what I want to get first are end-game equipment.

Thanks for the input Almora +rep'd
 
11-05-2012   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nephilim12
I've played before but left for about a year I guess, back then 1432 was the "famous" SM build (I've read most of the guides and talked to high leveled persons in game) but as I read their sentiments about 1414, I was shocked.

1414 builds are for Earth/Wind sheeps back then.

and mostly, magic types pump Ma not Hp. I wanna try the Fire/Electric SM mainly for bossing but I do not like to have 2 sheeps with the same element (one SM and one Light Witch) thats why I don't want a Fire/Electric SM in the first place

The light witch helps me earn galders thru powerleveling.

I've been curious about Water/Electric SMs since according to guides that I've read they are the superior boss hunting elements.

if Ma is that easy to get, then I might go pure HP (I only have Powerful Equipment for 140 to boost my MA and DP)

I am also not a fan of Sense Stat although I feel the need for the Weight (I too hoard quest items)

I could spend money for pouches, although what I want to get first are end-game equipment.

Thanks for the input Almora +rep'd
No problem. And yeah, I understand the identical elements on mage classes, it gets redundant sometimes.

Water/Elec is the superior bossing combination for players on a budget, for a fact. You can boss on every single elemental combination for a SM, so the class as a whole is already superior to other mage classes in this aspect. For the most part, I guess some people view Water/Elec as the superior bossing combination for its instant immediate high numbers on-screen, whereas with Fire/Elec, you just see it in increments, but it doesn't mean it's weaker. It's just as strong, or even stronger depending on how geared you are. The DoT's & power of fire spells are nothing to scoff at.

Yes, that is quite true for stacking MA over HP for magics. However, since you are dealing with the SM class, you have to think with a clean slate. Certain things do not always apply to the mage branch as a whole.

We have our space debuffs, so the loss in MA isn't much of a problem in PvE at all(usually). In addition, elemental attributes is a blessing and curse for magics at the same time, now that it is introduced. Hybrid MA + attribute is the best way to power your spells' damage, but it has a cost. If you only focus on one attribute to boost one element and neglect your overall MA, then your other un-boosted minor element's damage will plummet, including neutral spells too. This is an aspect I've wanted to point out in my guide, but I don't play anymore, so why bother.

All in all, you can't go wrong with any of the SM elemental combinations. They are all unique, have pros/cons and fun in their own ways. In the end, it's going to be your opinion/play style/decision, not others'. Having other peoples' input does help though and there is nothing wrong with that!

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