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09-24-2012   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwwdots
electro attack the stun it provide it self is a debuff skill
It's a stun skill, not a debuff skill. Debuff skills are where your stats are lowered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwwdots
glacier not sure on its accuracy if its high luck required or just random luck.
All Magic Type skills' accuracy are LK based, BUT ONLY DEPENDING ON your target's LK. Some skills, such as Shard of the Glacier, will just flat out miss no matter what at a fixed rate. This one being at a 10% failure rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwwdots
like i said gravity crush its high mp consumption and slow 3 sec cast and 15 sec cool down, it does do dmg/kill but rather be using something else.
2,000 MP = 1 Jewelry Potion. You're a Magic Type character. You have MP to burn. If you can't afford it, then you're doing it wrong. Quite frankly; people underestimate this skill - most people just look at the cons and go "meh". I do around 80k damage with mine in PvP, so yeah..

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwwdots
1432 terrible? what makes it so? base stat hardly means anything when 1 equip of ms comepletly changes everything.
HP is everything for Dark Hybrids in PvP. You get 21060 base HP at level 400 with 1423 - pure HP. 18060 with 1432. It may not look or sound significant, but believe me, it is. I can't tell you how many times I've been 3,000 or less HP short of surviving a suicidal bunny with a death wish. Though, I don't have that problem anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwwdots
put a dark vs light same luck and ma, pretty sure light knocks them out. theres more light out there more then anything seems. but because the nessisty of having hp as additonal part of equipment requirement, its less likely to dominate. if you are all arounded high stat, then thats just stat better not the class.
Do you honestly believe so? Dark skills are twice as strong as Light skills. Dark may not have the super popular ego of Lights with their Shield of Heaven floating around, but they are much stronger, and have higher survivability against everything except other Magic Types.

Fun fact: Dark has the easiest time destroying Shield of Heaven to pieces than any other Magic Type.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wwwdots
"I own all Magic Type characters (except Priest and Dark Lord, because they suck),"
i dont get it

As Vincere said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare
/forum/1740958-post2310.html

Josh knows what he's talking about, d00d. Best dark witch in the game
 
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09-24-2012   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare
/forum/1740958-post2310.html

Josh knows what he's talking about, d00d. Best dark witch in the game
ohmyhax

And I made my witch.
Leveling it with my friends. We're getting there together.
She's currently 51,
1423 Pure HP
Probably fire elec.

Thanks everyone! (:
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Last edited by Versalia; 09-24-2012 at 10:56 PM.
 
09-25-2012   #23 (permalink)
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well there ya go, ur cookie cutter guide. but dont just stop at those stats go further if affordable. i wasnt planning to mention the 1414hp pure hp attribute type consider its "the arround high stat type" REQUIRED plus shes new to witch where she still have the grinding process of 200-400. all around high stat, not much of a guide but more like a progression everyone trying to get.

@ care

im less concerned with its mp but more with its cd and cast time. im also curious about its accuracy. is it fixed rate? i got rid of the skill after heaven shield came out, when i had it i had my decent share of misses among anybody. even though i had luck gear heavy. do you not have any other high dmg skill to cast that you praise gravity crush so? its defintly not the essiential skill for a starting witch.

dark vs light, because at the time dark over powered light with its dmg, heaven shield created so that dark has x2 dmg and light has the x2+ hp. the whole point im making in that comment is that light has the room for luck where dark not so much. and to counter ur build go arround high. where it shown 2k ma compound with 70k hp compound given it to a light based, their hp would go x2 amount of urs, or they can take out some hp and put it into luck. then it would be miss miss miss. or go all around high for any class but thats not a common case for everybody.

Last edited by wwwdots; 09-25-2012 at 07:33 AM.
 
09-25-2012   #24 (permalink)
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2,000 MP = 1 Jewelry Potion. You're a Magic Type character. You have MP to burn. If you can't afford it, then you're doing it wrong. Quite frankly; people underestimate this skill - most people just look at the cons and go "meh". I do around 80k damage with mine in PvP, so yeah..

Well your MA is extraordinarily high (especially considering the amount of HP you have). In the time it takes to cast GC (+ the set-up required), you could've used two/three other skills (like Arrow Rush and Dark Lance, which would do even more damage).

HP is everything for Dark Hybrids in PvP. You get 21060 base HP at level 400 with 1423 - pure HP. 18060 with 1432. It may not look or sound significant, but believe me, it is. I can't tell you how many times I've been 3,000 or less HP short of surviving a suicidal bunny with a death wish. Though, I don't have that problem anymore.

For your amount of HP I doubt it is that significant lol (in fact you've even said that yourself). Plus, WT is an important aspect as well (I've noticed you have used WT pouches before which can be quite expensive to maintain). I agree with wwwdots that it is quite a chore to grind with low WT but meh.

Do you honestly believe so? Dark skills are twice as strong as Light skills. Dark may not have the super popular ego of Lights with their Shield of Heaven floating around, but they are much stronger, and have higher survivability against everything except other Magic Types.

Guns Light mages are popular for a good reason imo. But regardless, PvP can be quite an ego-fest in itself.


I think Dark mages are awesome in PvP, it's just it requires a lot MyShop (especially compared to Light). I think with your level of funding, it would be easy to make a Light mage that is without a weakness (you could more readily stack LK in favour of HP). So in that respect, do you not think a Light mage is just as good (or *coughevenbettercough*)?

Last edited by Life; 09-25-2012 at 09:28 AM.
 
09-25-2012   #25 (permalink)
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it is quite a chore to grind with low WT but meh.
to solve this problem she can choose w.e build she wants and grind it to 400, after that ms is her solution resetting her build to 1414, buying ms (thousands) ready to pvp.
 
09-25-2012   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwwdots
im less concerned with its mp but more with its cd and cast time. im also curious about its accuracy. is it fixed rate? i got rid of the skill after heaven shield came out, when i had it i had my decent share of misses among anybody. even though i had luck gear heavy. do you not have any other high dmg skill to cast that you praise gravity crush so? its defintly not the essiential skill for a starting witch.

15 seconds isn't that long..

Anyways - it doesn't have a fixed rate. Its accuracy is LK, but only based on your target's LK (not yours), like the majority of Magic skills.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wwwdots
dark vs light, because at the time dark over powered light with its dmg, heaven shield created so that dark has x2 dmg and light has the x2+ hp. the whole point im making in that comment is that light has the room for luck where dark not so much. and to counter ur build go arround high. where it shown 2k ma compound with 70k hp compound given it to a light based, their hp would go x2 amount of urs, or they can take out some hp and put it into luck. then it would be miss miss miss. or go all around high for any class but thats not a common case for everybody.

You DO NOT NEED LK as a Dark Hybrid. I can't stress this enough. Are you people really forgetting that LK was NERFED compared to back when before Shield of Heaven was released?

For the sake of an example: You have about a 43% chance to ALWAYS hit 3 out of 7 arrows with Arrow Rush, no matter what your LK is - even if your target has 9,000 more than you. LK doesn't matter nearly as much as it did four or five years ago.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Life
Well your MA is extraordinarily high (especially considering the amount of HP you have). In the time it takes to cast GC (+ the set-up required), you could've used two/three other skills (like Arrow Rush and Dark Lance, which would do even more damage).
Gravity Crush is an AoE. You should only use it on single targets when other things are on cooldown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Life
For your amount of HP I doubt it is that significant lol (in fact you've even said that yourself). Plus, WT is an important aspect as well (I've noticed you have used WT pouches before which can be quite expensive to maintain). I agree with wwwdots that it is quite a chore to grind with low WT but meh.

I said it is significant, not that it isn't.

I always use a WT pouch, and I always tell people to go 1423 if they can't afford MyShop for 1414. My Soul Master is 1423 and didn't need a pouch at all, so I don't know why people complain.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Life
Guns Light mages are popular for a good reason imo. But regardless, PvP can be quite an ego-fest in itself.
I survive guns pretty easily. Lights don't have HP - so once that shield is broken, they're dead. It may have a 10 second cooldown, but usually lions and foxes can take it down in half the time (speaking on equal terms).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Life
I think Dark mages are awesome in PvP, it's just it requires a lot MyShop (especially compared to Light). I think with your level of funding, it would be easy to make a Light mage that is without a weakness (you could more readily stack LK in favour of HP). So in that respect, do you not think a Light mage is just as good (or *coughevenbettercough*)?

I already have a Light Witch with a LK set. I still find Dark Hybrids better.

Actually, I even sometimes have an easier time killing certain Light mages with my Dark Witch without LK gear. The only Light mage I have a difficult time with is Onoo.

---

Clearly people have been given the wrong idea on Dark Hybrids for far too long. Dare I say that it almost makes me want to write my own Guide.
 
09-25-2012   #27 (permalink)
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@ Care.
I really think you should!
When I decided to write this thread
My friend even said
"Now we wait for Mieno to post in it."

Plus you'd probably make it so thorough, informative, and organized.

Of course writing a guide is tough and time-consuming work.

If you do end up writing one;
I'll be sure to read it.

Thanks to everyone who helped me with deciding a build
and elements!

I also learned a lot of things about dark hybrids!

Edit: Plus repped Life.
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Last edited by Versalia; 09-25-2012 at 03:59 PM.
 
09-26-2012   #28 (permalink)
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Well I think Vincere has already decided but I want to continue this discussion just to see what you think... I've gone off-topic I guess.


Gravity Crush is an AoE. You should only use it on single targets when other things are on cooldown.

I know GC is an AoE. I meant that when it comes to PvP, I can't see all your other good single target skills (Hellfire + Wicked Flame, Phoenix, Arrow Rush, Dark Lance etc) being on cool down so that you're down to Electro + Gravity. But whatever.


I said it is significant, not that it isn't.

I always use a WT pouch, and I always tell people to go 1423 if they can't afford MyShop for 1414. My Soul Master is 1423 and didn't need a pouch at all, so I don't know why people complain.


Oh I got the impression that 3k HP was no longer significant (when compared to your total) as you 'no longer have that [needing an extra 3k to survive a hit] problem'.

You're quite a big advocate of 1414 Pure HP so I just thought I'd mention that WT thing for people who can't use MyShop pouches.


I survive guns pretty easily. Lights don't have HP - so once that shield is broken, they're dead. It may have a 10 second cooldown, but usually lions and foxes can take it down in half the time (speaking on equal terms).

In general, I would agree with that. But that's just like saying lots of Dark Mages can't survive easily in PvP. If we're going to debate this, let's assume that both Witches are using the same amount of MyShop (because face it, that's what matters, there's very little skill required in this game imo) and are the same level (400).


I already have a Light Witch with a LK set. I still find Dark Hybrids better.

Actually, I even sometimes have an easier time killing certain Light mages with my Dark Witch without LK gear. The only Light mage I have a difficult time with is Onoo.

---

Clearly people have been given the wrong idea on Dark Hybrids for far too long. Dare I say that it almost makes me want to write my own Guide.
[/QUOTE]

Hm.

Ok if we assume that you have two witches that are both level 400 with similar levels of funding (judging by your equipment, I would've said you're probably in the top 10% or at least 20% of biggest spenders of MyShop?) I would argue that a Light Witch can be just as good as a Dark Witch in PvP.

Dark Barrier means Dark Witches have an easier time against Power/Charm/Foxes. I don't doubt that your Dark Witch can kill them faster (or at least easier) than your Light Witch. However, assuming your Light Witch probably has 2k MA too (so that's 90k HP SoH) and a similar HP (around 100k). I can't imagine your Light Witch having trouble fighting Power/Charm/Foxes (Rust, Oath of Light, Cure etc).

And then when it comes to fighting Lions, I would say Light Witches have an advantage (although saying that, how many Lions could stack enough HP to survive your Witches' Arrow Rush + Phoenix Rising etc. and have enough AC to do decent damage).

And then when it comes to fighting Magic types, your Light Witch is able to stack more LK whereas your Dark Witch has more DoT and damage in general. So perhaps your Dark Witch has an easier time.

What I'm saying is that with your levels of MyShop, the two Witches are pretty similar in PvP. However, being a Light mage means you have an easier time getting to a level that is adequate for PvP, especially in terms of money spent. As a Light Witch you won't have to mix-and-match boxes as much (Dark Witches have to get MA Equipment with HP slots and that's scattered around different boxes). You also won't need a separate set of equipment for PvP and for grinding (I know that for you Care, that might not be a problem. But not everyone can easily get the amount of HP you need for PvP and the MA you need for grinding in just one set).

Feel free to correct anything.

Last edited by Life; 09-26-2012 at 11:42 AM.
 
09-26-2012   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Life
In general, I would agree with that. But that's just like saying lots of Dark Mages can't survive easily in PvP.
That's because most Dark mages can't survive in PvP. This is due to the majority of people recommending 1441/1432 pure MA.

I wouldn't dare to recommend those builds even if it was strictly for PvM.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Life
Ok if we assume that you have two witches that are both level 400 with similar levels of funding (judging by your equipment, I would've said you're probably in the top 10% or at least 20% of biggest spenders of MyShop?) I would argue that a Light Witch can be just as good as a Dark Witch in PvP.

Dark Barrier means Dark Witches have an easier time against Power/Charm/Foxes. I don't doubt that your Dark Witch can kill them faster (or at least easier) than your Light Witch. However, assuming your Light Witch probably has 2k MA too (so that's 90k HP SoH) and a similar HP (around 100k). I can't imagine your Light Witch having trouble fighting Power/Charm/Foxes (Rust, Oath of Light, Cure etc).
Dark Barrier reflects and reduces physical damage by 50% in PvP - Shield of Heaven does not. By that logic; you can also say that Dark Barrier basically grants the user double the amount of HP and defense. It's a good thing most characters are physical.

So my 114k HP basically turns into 228k HP for any physical type. On top of that; they also have to deal with the damage reflection and not trying to accidentally kill themself. There's also the fact that any damage done can simply be cured off, as long as you aren't stunned.

---

In general, neither my Light or Dark Witch has trouble fighting Power/Magic Types and Gunners. But only my Dark Witch has an easy time with Charms and Thief Masters.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Life
However, being a Light mage means you have an easier time getting to a level that is adequate for PvP, especially in terms of money spent. As a Light Witch you won't have to mix-and-match boxes as much (Dark Witches have to get MA Equipment with HP slots and that's scattered around different boxes). You also won't need a separate set of equipment for PvP and for grinding (I know that for you Care, that might not be a problem. But not everyone can easily get the amount of HP you need for PvP and the MA you need for grinding in just one set).
Yes - Dark mages can be more expensive compared to Lights, but that doesn't mean that they are. And you are right in terms of having to mix and match, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that it's hard to do, or even more expensive than a Light mage with two separate sets. Dark mages only need one set - an MA/HP set. The set I have on in that screenshot Dare linked to is the only set I ever use on my Dark Witch - even in PvM (aside from switching one or two equips for LK at the 60th and 72nd floor bosses).

My suggestion to anyone wanting to create a Dark Hybrid for PvP: Don't buy anything in MyShop unless it contains something with a fair amount of MA/HP on it. It definitely takes longer to build up a Dark Hybrid compared to Light Hybrids, but patience can go a long way.
 
09-26-2012   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Care
That's because most Dark mages can't survive in PvP. This is due to the majority of people recommending 1441/1432 pure MA.

I wouldn't dare to recommend those builds even if it was strictly for PvM.


I was just trying to rebute the comment that 'Lights don't have HP' because it's obviously not the class' fault but the player's choice whether to wear HP equipment or not. But reading it back, perhaps I didn't achieve that lol.

Dark Barrier reflects and reduces physical damage by 50% in PvP - Shield of Heaven does not. By that logic; you can also say that Dark Barrier basically grants the user double the amount of HP and defense. It's a good thing most characters are physical.

So my 114k HP basically turns into 228k HP for any physical type. On top of that; they also have to deal with the damage reflection and not trying to accidentally kill themself. There's also the fact that any damage done can simply be cured off, as long as you aren't stunned.

---

In general, neither my Light or Dark Witch has trouble fighting Power/Magic Types and Gunners. But only my Dark Witch has an easy time with Charms and Thief Masters.


What I meant earlier was that by going Light, you aren't really losing the defensive advantage against Charm/Power types but obviously Dark Barrier helps against Power/Charms/Foxes offensively. I'm guessing with your Light mage against Charms you have problems with Skunk, and with Thief M's its the fact they break SoH so quickly?

Yes - Dark mages can be more expensive compared to Lights, but that doesn't mean that they are. And you are right in terms of having to mix and match, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that it's hard to do, or even more expensive than a Light mage with two separate sets. Dark mages only need one set - an MA/HP set. The set I have on in that screenshot Dare linked to is the only set I ever use on my Dark Witch - even in PvM (aside from switching one or two equips for LK at the 60th and 72nd floor bosses).

My suggestion to anyone wanting to create a Dark Hybrid for PvP: Don't buy anything in MyShop unless it contains something with a fair amount of MA/HP on it. It definitely takes longer to build up a Dark Hybrid compared to Light Hybrids, but patience can go a long way.
What two separate sets would a Light mage use? I'm guessing LK and MA? If that's the case, most magic boxes already have a fair bit of LK and you could always compound LK on duplicates (which you most likely will get). Plus with the LK nerf, I guess LK isn't as important anyways.
 
09-26-2012   #31 (permalink)
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Electro+GC= GG o3o

I've got to say, I really love that combo. I've seen it used a couple of times and most of the time, the Eletro stun is long enough for the Dark Mage to cast GC.
 
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"but usually lions and foxes can take it down in half the time (speaking on equal terms)."

equal terms i was comapring mages vs mages not other classes, since they cant be on equal terms. ma doesnt = ac , theres also gun ap and equips refinement where ma easly adds to 500 and how many gun ap = 1 ac = 1 ma? then skills, cast time, luck advantage of sense. i also find lions rather weak currently. theres just way to many factors to consider to even get a even comparison.

then you mention sense takes half the time to take out soh with its 10 sec cool down, then would take less time for them to hit urs. what we mages doing during that time? sit there and taking the hit or are we gonna 1-2 shot them?

.....just because they have nerfed luck, it does not mean luck seize to serve purpose in the game other wise they couldve just removed it from being part of a stat. no miss still > half miss. x2 the dmg. 1 shot ko > 2 shot ko.
 
09-26-2012   #33 (permalink)
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Plus repped MrHerp (AKUFEG!) because he posted something to do with Dark Hybrids...(:


HI AKUGAY. <3
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09-26-2012   #34 (permalink)
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Hello Janny

Another thing I'd like to add, in my opinion, although both are great, I find water/elec to be more suited towards pvp and bossing, while fire/elec more towards grinding and the such.

Regardless of the accuracy and the randomness, Shard+Thunderbolt can be really devastating in PvP.

Also, you gotta master the "art" of curing. * w*
 
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@MrHerp

love me pls.

and I already went fire/elec.

My SM is water/elec. I don't want to go water/elec again.


And Erica spams cure...like.....a.....
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Fire/elec is nice too. Phoenix is sexy C:

Would be fun to troll around in pvp by electo-ing a group and GC'ing them * w*

I've got say, i'm not a bad cure'r myself, you seen my speed lately? c;
 
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Quote:
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Hello Janny

Another thing I'd like to add, in my opinion, although both are great, I find water/elec to be more suited towards pvp and bossing, while fire/elec more towards grinding and the such.

Regardless of the accuracy and the randomness, Shard+Thunderbolt can be really devastating in PvP.
Disagree Aku. You do not know how powerful fire is.
Life situation: Wild Fire > Blast of Lightning. You might think a bolt can destroy a house, but a huge fire can destroy a huge forest.

Sum it up: Fire is powerful due to duration meaning it takes time, but the damages add up. Lightning is ONE powerful hit. If you add up all the burn damages from Phoenix it can get up to 100~150k damage.

It really depends which style you like.

Edit: ........ You changed your post Aku D8<
 
09-26-2012   #38 (permalink)
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As strong as fire is,
The Shard + Elec skills can dominate it I believe...
Well, I can't say so,
because I don't have a fire/elec sheep yet.
(High level I mean.)

Hi Colden. (:

Edit: I DIDN'T READ THAT AKU CHANGED HIS POST.

Aku you're not as slow as me. LOL.
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09-26-2012   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowBerry
Disagree Aku. You do not know how powerful fire is.
Life situation: Wild Fire > Blast of Lightning. You might think a bolt can destroy a house, but a huge fire can destroy a huge forest.

Sum it up: Fire is powerful due to duration meaning it takes time, but the damages add up. Lightning is ONE powerful hit. If you add up all the burn damages from Phoenix it can get up to 100~150k damage.

It really depends which style you like.

Edit: ........ You changed your post Aku D8<
Well the thing is, yes the damage over time can add up to more damage, but come on, really? You're not just gonna sit their and let it burn you. Unlike with the bolt, you can't cure yourself out of it if it ohko's you. With the bolt, you better hope that your arse survives that hit o3o

where did I change my post? D<
 
09-26-2012   #40 (permalink)
MARINA
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Well, you can cure yourself if you're being hit with DoT's.
Hence Damage over time.

And shard + bolt doesn't always hit a lot.

But when it does..
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