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06-10-2012   #101 (permalink)
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Testing on gold beetles in swamp mine.

MA: 1583
LK: 326
AC: 126

---Whirlwind Blaze:
No Raion's Space: 18472
With Raion's Space: 36943

---Dragon Storm:
No Raion's Space: 28791
With Raion's Space: 57581

Scorching was giving two different values each time, so I noted them both.
---Scorching Earth:
No Raion's Space: 13558, 14983
With Raion's Space: 27116, 29966

MA: 1061
LK: 326
AC: 126

---Whirlwind Blaze:
No Raion's Space: 12333
With Raion's Space: 24665

---Dragon Storm:
No Raion's Space: 19346
With Raion's Space: 38692

Scorching was giving two different values each time, so I noted them both.
---Scorching Earth:
I got blown up. Does under 10k without Raion's Space. Was something like 9888 ish.

Anything else?
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Last edited by KahruNYA; 06-10-2012 at 12:44 AM.
 
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06-10-2012   #102 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanYa4eVr
Testing on gold beetles in swamp mine.

MA: 1583
LK: 326
AC: 126

---Whirlwind Blaze:
No Raion's Space: 18472 T=0.32
With Raion's Space: 36943 T= 0.64

---Dragon Storm:
No Raion's Space: 28791 T=0.32
With Raion's Space: 57581 T=0.64

Scorching was giving two different values each time, so I noted them both.
---Scorching Earth:
No Raion's Space: 13558, 14983 T=0.32
With Raion's Space: 27116, 29966 T=0.64



CONCLUSION= resistance change is not dependent on the skill.
Note: i think you had a typo in your ma, as using the value of the post below, (1538) instead of 1583, gives me the correct numbers.



MA: 1061
LK: 326
AC: 126

---Whirlwind Blaze:
No Raion's Space: 12333
With Raion's Space: 24665

---Dragon Storm:
No Raion's Space: 19346 T=0.33
With Raion's Space: 38692 T=0.66

Scorching was giving two different values each time, so I noted them both.
---Scorching Earth:
I got blown up. Does under 10k without Raion's Space. Was something like 9888 ish.

Conclusion: we have the same factor of 2 for the resistance for each of these scenarios. I'd say that the resistance change is independent of MA.

Anything else?

Thanks, that's step one done, I shall ask you to try on a few more monsters.
Same MA will be ideal. I would say one of those absorbing orcs, torrobies, and something of your own choice.

PS- I got my resistance calculator working finally.


That's for gold beetles.


PPS- are all your skills mastered?

PPPS- Editing in my values for resist at the moment. I should be getting 0.33, but anyways...
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Last edited by Nebula; 06-10-2012 at 01:14 AM.
 
06-10-2012   #103 (permalink)
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EDIT, yes they're all mastered.
EDIT2, sorry my sticky notes got mixed up, correct numbers now lol.

MA: 1538
-Torobies

---W.W. Blaze:
No Space: 58071
Space: 58851

---D. Storm:
No Space: 89340
Space: 90233

MA: 1061
---W.W. Blaze:
No Space: 39468
Space: 39862

---D. Storm:
No Space: 60720
Space: 61327


MA: 1538
Regent Orc (Got numbers with out them having Mana Reflector up... ANNOYING).
---Dragon Storm:
No Space: +15864 (healed them)
Space: 36137 (I believe)

Fire Moth
---Dragon Storm:
No Space: 1 (no joke)
Space: 43965 (also no joke).

EDIT: Name the monster, I'll Dragon Storm it for you :P
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Last edited by KahruNYA; 06-10-2012 at 01:29 AM.
 
06-10-2012   #104 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanYa4eVr
EDIT, yes they're all mastered.
EDIT2, sorry my sticky notes got mixed up, correct numbers now lol.

MA: 1538
-Torobies

---W.W. Blaze:
No Space: 58071
Space: 58851

---D. Storm:
No Space: 89340 T=1
Space: 90233 T= 1.01

MA: 1061
---W.W. Blaze:
No Space: 39468
Space: 39862

---D. Storm:
No Space: 60720
Space: 61327 T=1.01

Orcs in a bit, will edit.
Okay, the resist change:
Does NOT:
  • depend on MA
  • Depend on the skill

Does
  • Depend one the monster's resistance
  • May depend on monster's md


Need to test monsters with the same resistance with different MD
Monsters with different values of resistance.

Just use dragon storm from now on.



Fire Moth:
Normal: ~0
Space: 0.51

Orc:
Normal: -0.18
Space: 0.414



Monsters to DS
Really up to you.

How about one from each region?
-pochi
-sea tiger
-Mermaid babe
-armour squirt
-electric snail

That'll do.
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Last edited by Nebula; 06-10-2012 at 01:38 AM.
 
06-10-2012   #105 (permalink)
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MA: 1538
D. Storm:

Pochi
No Space: 86542
Space: 87434

Sea Tiger
No Space: 80993
Space: 84553

Okay, some more data then

Electric Snail
No Space: 57475
Space: 72507

Snowkid
No Space: 66152
Space: 76736

Laki
No Space: 57815
Space: 72706

EDIT: Yay!
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Last edited by KahruNYA; 06-10-2012 at 02:01 AM.
 
06-10-2012   #106 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanYa4eVr
MA: 1538

Pochi
D. Storm:
No Space: 86542
Space: 87434

... ho hum teleporting around
Tyty!
Don't worry about any more values.
I just plotted the monster's normal resist against the resist with the skill.
It's perfectly linear
I'll add the last point, fit a trend line with the plot and share the results!


Well, let me see if the last point is linear.
Otherwise I'll need more numbers.. sorry.

Spoiler!



I'm guessing it's something like
Formula for the tolerance of a monster affected by the space is given on the graph, where x is the tolerance.

-Still some error within the graph but I will guess that the torrobie is correct, so it should go through that point.
-Need to work out the exact numbers.
-Not sure what the affect of skill level is on the tolerance. (later research?)

Red salamanders may be a good insight.

And this skill is much better than I expected


Thanks, Banya for running around a killing the monsters for the numbers.
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Last edited by Nebula; 06-10-2012 at 02:22 AM.
 
06-10-2012   #107 (permalink)
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This seems all very interesting...
I wonder what the "18" in the skill desc. even means, if anything lol.

Red Salamanders will be silly since I believe they have negative MD or tolerate over 100% of Fire
On my way~

Dragon Storm with 1538 MA (these aren't critical hits)
---Red Salamander
No Space: 112435
Space: 113334

Dragon Storm with 1061 MA
---Red Salamander
No Space: 75822
Space: 76414

What I notice:
-The Space skill will not make a large effect (like + - 1%) when the target already tolerates 100%.
-In PvP, this skill affects player's resistance by showing a -1%(insert attribute) if they have no resistance buffs or equipments on. Further showing that the skill probably is designed to not send the target's tolerance over 100%.

Would be fun to make someone tolerate 200% of Fire damage though >:3

I'll do some more tests if you're around tomorrow if I can find anyone with Fire resist EQ
For now I need to sleep before the sun comes up lol.
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Last edited by KahruNYA; 06-10-2012 at 02:49 AM.
 
06-10-2012   #108 (permalink)
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hmm, could you please hit the red salamander with a different value of ma? without the space?

Wiki lacks the MD

Mmmm it must hit a certain value of tolerance and then stay constant after that.

Ok, red sala's have 1706.7MD and 1.2792 tolerance, so 1.28

And for the space it's 1.289~=1.29
So after 100% tolerance, it's 1%

This would explain the pvp "bug"
"wow" for once it appears to be working as intended, as the 30% in pvp is applied after all the resists and such I believe.
Thus people standing in the space do have the -1% only...

So.. one last test... use the space in pvp on someone wearing some fire resist equips.


I can see there being a reason why they do that. If you stayed with the current formula with over 100% tolerance, then the skill would decrease the damage output. You would then be doing less damage on the red salamander.

Anyways, thanks again for your help, and sleep well.

Also finding someone with fire shield should be sufficient to work out my point.

I have 2 soul masters that are yet to learn their area skill. So in a few weeks when exams are over, I can work out what the 18% means.
Unless someone beats me to it
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Last edited by Nebula; 06-10-2012 at 03:17 AM.
 
06-10-2012   #109 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almora

Why did you want to know by the way? =o
I had no idea Soki could take damage from Arrows. I really want a wind sheep and have for awhile but I will never bring myself to freeze my sheeps I already have. ;_; I couldn't make it on another account either, since I'm an avid Myshop user and not having my best equips would drive me nuts. After watching your video of CT bosses, that just confirmed even further that I must have a wind sheep again and I always assumed it'd be fastest to Wind Blade spam.

Thank you for testing. :3

B> 13 Master's Authorities q_q

edit; Two hours later I realised that didn't answer your question very well. I just wanted to see what I was looking at in terms of Odinea/Soki if I were to change to Wind.

Last edited by Nikeos; 06-10-2012 at 07:23 AM.
 
06-10-2012   #110 (permalink)
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BanYa4eVr
LadyEl
Really girls,you are amazing!

I was wondering on change to water but after see these dragon storms hits.. I feel like.. OMG I NEED TO SEE THIS xD.

And how you know so much math?and how old are you? '-'
You surprise me a lot to know how to use the computer math to discover somestuff.
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06-10-2012   #111 (permalink)
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Well there is a small test pretty easy but can cost you...
If you could delete raion space and relearn it at lv1
Test raion space on trobbie from lv1-master.
See if the 18 really make a diffence.
My thought is the "18" is how big your space is LOL
 
06-10-2012   #112 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikeos
I had no idea Soki could take damage from Arrows. I really want a wind sheep and have for awhile but I will never bring myself to freeze my sheeps I already have. ;_; I couldn't make it on another account either, since I'm an avid Myshop user and not having my best equips would drive me nuts. After watching your video of CT bosses, that just confirmed even further that I must have a wind sheep again and I always assumed it'd be fastest to Wind Blade spam.

Thank you for testing. :3

B> 13 Master's Authorities q_q

edit; Two hours later I realised that didn't answer your question very well. I just wanted to see what I was looking at in terms of Odinea/Soki if I were to change to Wind.

Ah no problemo!

And yeah lol, Soki does take damage from arrows xD It's just kinda annoying when you use it at the wrong time and 3/7 arrows get blocked while it accidentally activates his resistance change, ugh. Don't worry, I didn't even know that tech is all gray now while I went to test, so yea ;-;

I understand the no best eqs part Q_Q, that's why I'm having such a hard time with what to freeze for my future darklord. I JUST WISH THERE WERE MORE CHARACTER SLOTS.


---

@kaay: Yes, they're amazing lol, I was trying to understand and I only got the gist of it. I'm not necessarily the brightest at reading x,y graphs since I dreaded them in H.S. Psychics and Pre-cal Dx

By the looks of it, there's probably no hope of spaces getting "fixed" in PvP, unless they decide to rehaul and rework the whole skill formula like how shard works(can debuff even if target's resistance is 0).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almora

Ah no problemo!

And yeah lol, Soki does take damage from arrows xD It's just kinda annoying when you use it at the wrong time and 3/7 arrows get blocked while it accidentally activates his resistance change, ugh. Don't worry, I didn't even know that tech is all gray now while I went to test, so yea ;-;

I understand the no best eqs part Q_Q, that's why I'm having such a hard time with what to freeze for my future darklord. I JUST WISH THERE WERE MORE CHARACTER SLOTS.


---

@kaay: Yes, they're amazing lol, I was trying to understand and I only got the gist of it. I'm not necessarily the brightest at reading x,y graphs since I dreaded them in H.S. Psychics and Pre-cal Dx

By the looks of it, there's probably no hope of spaces getting "fixed" in PvP, unless they decide to rehaul and rework the whole skill formula like how shard works(can debuff even if target's resistance is 0).
I guess AFTER some maints when new skill come,they will solve some problems related to PvP and change skills as well.
I AM REALLY excited for see if they will put or not the % on formula hehe,it wil be one more thing for SM's balance xD
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06-10-2012   #114 (permalink)
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@Kay: I am 19 and I take second year maths at college.. But that is overkill for this sort of work. I was still lazy and used a computer to do the work..
I honestly love dragon storm, beautiful skill. So is staff of thunder. Actually soulmasters have the most amzing graphics. I love the crunch sound of earthquake too. Sounds way cooler than earthquake blade!
---

@Van, I think I have a spare authority lying around. But give me two weeks to finish my exams.

---
@Almora, dreaded x-y graphs too. I hated using the table of values approach.. Especially for straight lines.
And I prefer the spaces this way. If they left it at 18%for all monsters this skill would not be as effective as it is.
However they could adjust it so you get a minimum of 18% for all monsters so that the formula for the monsters of low tolerance stays the same.
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hm so i reseted to wind earth(at the cost of 10$ ), lvl90tm atm (which i gotta lvl) but for my next skill should i get cleaving terra or mana storm and wait for whirlwind at lvl 105tm?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOMOsamz
hm so i reseted to wind earth(at the cost of 10$ ), lvl90tm atm (which i gotta lvl) but for my next skill should i get cleaving terra or mana storm and wait for whirlwind at lvl 105tm?
/forum/magic-type-gu...ml#post1727918

Scroll & look for the wind/earth recommended TM guide. I got cleaving after most of my important wind skills because it is considerably weaker than wind blade and I hardly have a need for it now. I only got it to make way for a mastered earthquake and only use it for utility. But if you really think you need more than just wind blade atm, go for cleaving.
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thx almora you've helped me alot!
 
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@Lady - Math College seems so hard and I like Math,but I wil take Engiring Civil I have just 16 years old lol

@Almora - I just got 3rd on my littles sheep.. and Thunder Staff is SO NEAT and huge.Sometimes I don't beliave how it hit so far :O.I will keep with fire I think,Phoenix Rising is nice DoT to.. but well everything can change on future hehe!
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06-10-2012   #119 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaay
@Lady - Math College seems so hard and I like Math,but I wil take Engiring Civil I have just 16 years old lol

@Almora - I just got 3rd on my littles sheep.. and Thunder Staff is SO NEAT and huge.Sometimes I don't beliave how it hit so far :O.I will keep with fire I think,Phoenix Rising is nice DoT to.. but well everything can change on future hehe!
You should be able to hand the math that I used to work this out if you are 16 and take a somewhat advanced course. (simultaneous equations) However, I have just made a spreadsheet that can do what I did. But engineering is a good choice for someone who likes math.
Here's the spreadsheet.

monsterresist.xls download - 2shared

Aiming to get it to work out the required ma to kill a monster with a certain skill.
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06-10-2012   #120 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaay
@Lady - Math College seems so hard and I like Math,but I wil take Engiring Civil I have just 16 years old lol

@Almora - I just got 3rd on my littles sheep.. and Thunder Staff is SO NEAT and huge.Sometimes I don't beliave how it hit so far :O.I will keep with fire I think,Phoenix Rising is nice DoT to.. but well everything can change on future hehe!

Well there are different branches of Math in college. Nowadays they literally just dumb it down and all you really need is algebra 2 LOL. Unless you are majoring in engineering or computer sciences. Which is kinda sad because I passed alg. 2 in 10th grade and people are struggling with it in College. Educational standards for the minimum reqs are really sad now. I just died at the CAHSEE, really easy. Good luck in your major and wow only 16 and you have a dead set goal on what you want to do with your life already ;A;

Anyways, on-topic lol:
Yup, staff is awesome and the range is very huge. It's like you have an electric cleaving terra. Good luck on your element path

@Domo: You're welcome! =D
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