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09-21-2009   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yumiko
Yeah. TLS and BS are taken from Tia. Unfortunately, most Tias use max Mines and FTK. So I see where you're coming from. Kstyle, I believe, was originally made so players could have a more fair match instead of a match ending in 10 seconds. People like to win with dignity and believe that it was worth it. What do you get from beating some high-end professional PvPer by spamming your strongest skills then knocking them down at 0 HP? (But they would've won if they were that skilled, but that's not my point.) You've always went all out. As far as I know, and I hate to be so judgmental and critical of someone like you, you've never actually played fair. You've always customized your build to deal the most damage with the least MP consumption in the least amount of time. AKA, max Dodge, Fog, Tears, Spirit, etc.
I'm sorry, what did you just say? I've NEVER played fair? Sorry, have you been somehow watching all my pvp matches for the two years I've been playing this game? And seriously what's wrong with getting a good build as opposed to the shitty build that your idiot mind thinks of as "fair"? Oh wait, I know, YOU DONT LIKE IT. Sorry next time I pvp I'll put the room title as "Yumiko style only" so that my matches will all be fair, albeit A, S, space, unless space dash AS reset is too cheap? Then maybe I should limit myself more to just A and S. Oh wait, infinite, duh! Oh snap maybe I'll just stick to AAAAAing everything.

Wait sorry is SSA spamming? I don't remember maybe I should look it up... oh wait those rules DONT EXIST!!! wtf?? Blasphemy I know right? When I rb my eir I should max all the crap skills, that way my eir can do even less damage than it already does!! That'll show the pvp world that I play fair even if I lose almost all matches!! Yeah then maybe I should complain about losing because of my build then ***** about it in every forum I know. Oh wait maybe I should get on my self righteous ***** throne and act better than everyone cuz they alll use unfair builds except me. BRB making up rules to play with and going to enforce it on everyone.

oh and edit:

I never use sleep unless I'm losing badly or I get sleepbind/notebind/bs air combo/etc.
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09-21-2009   #22 (permalink)
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all im saying is if you lose to johns eir, you suck
 
09-21-2009   #23 (permalink)
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I appreciate the productivity of the discussion in the thread (ya rite), but watch it, you guys are bordering flaming.
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09-21-2009   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yumiko
I don't restrict Eirs. o.o Other than Moonbind.

I was saying that john has never restricted himself or played fair. That's all.

I've beat plenty of Eirs that max Holy Spirit, Bind, Fog, JoG, Dodge, Tears, etc.

Oh, and I'm not trying to make people limit themselves so much to the point that I have a better advantage. Great example of an Eir is EternalSky. FS Eir, but still manages to beat me because of her first hits. You just completely raped me for two reasons.

1. Eir vs Tia...Tia is liek, dead ok.
2. You go all out. As most Eirs in Glunia do.
I don't know whether you're silly or just trolling. Perhaps both.

Eir has the lowest DPS of any character in PVP. If you say so otherwise, you're in complete denial. Why would an Eir have to restrict himself/herself? The only valid reason I can think of is if you're great with Eir in PVP and you're fighting a newbie in PVP and you feel like being generous so you go easy on the other person.

You're saying it's unfair for Eir's to customize their build to attempt to be ON PAR (in regards to DPS) with the other characters?

Last edited by Griever; 09-21-2009 at 11:20 PM.
 
09-21-2009   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griever
I don't know whether you're silly or just trolling. Perhaps both.

Eir has the lowest DPS of any character in PVP. If you say so otherwise, you're in complete denial. Why would an Eir have to restrict himself/herself? The only valid reason I can think of is if you're great with Eir in PVP and you're fighting a newbie in PVP and you feel like being generous so you go easy on the other person.

You're saying it's unfair for Eir's to customize their build to attempt to be ON PAR (in regards to DPS) with the other characters?
Agree'd out of all characters I think eir has one of the lowest DPS. Therefore making it unreasonable to limit yourself.
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09-22-2009   #26 (permalink)
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the way i see it, Kstyle was not made as a way to allow yourself to complain just because your opponent doesn't play the way you want them to
Kstyle, as the name implies, is a STYLE, meaning everybody plays how they want and shouldn't be judgmental about other styles just because you think it's not good compared to yours
at this point, where most characters have been significantly buffed, it's harder to play such a conservative style unless you have a -STR set
notice how kstyle isn't completely covered detail by detail, because as a style, it changes depending on how a user wants to play
but by this point, kstyle isn't a style which a user personalizes to their own, rather, it's being defined as the style they want the opponent to use

PvP is simple, the user can make their style as complex as they want but the basics still remain. if you play, you play to win. if you lose, you improve or have a rematch or something, but not going on rants saying how unbalanced the game is or how the person who beat you doesn't understand pvp

if it so happens that the high damaging skills are part of the users style, even if they were nerfed and the user still used it (or was previously crap then buffed), then there's nothing anybody can do about it. the only thing the opponent can do about it is to learn how to get around the issue of not liking the skill and figuring out how to counter it.
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Last edited by theSinned; 09-22-2009 at 03:38 AM.
 
09-22-2009   #27 (permalink)
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I'd like to put in that before ijji, and maybe a bit into ijji, john had lvl 1 tears, lvl 1 holy spirit and didn't even have sleep in his build o.O
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09-22-2009   #28 (permalink)
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09-22-2009   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yumiko
In an all out match, the damage per mana point is what made Kstyle to be implemented. I know it's pretty obvious, but I'll use Dainn as an example.

A max CBD after AAdAS is a no decay Dragon, right? A 3-hit Dragon does 1,350 damage average in Balance for about 450 per hit. But the estimated range is 1,200~1,600 damage. It also costs like 200 MP? I think. Not sure. Anyways...
1,350 damage for 200 MP. That's balanced. But if you use a Dragon at max decay, it deals, on average, 150 per hit. That's almost 500 damage for 200-ish MP. Which is why people who are actually good at comboing often use it at max decay. Heh.

But look at Kali's Rhapsody of Blood. It costs 200~250 MP or something for 350x6. That equals 2,100 damage. Not to mention it has a one second sleep effect. Which is my point.
Incorrect. Kali's Rhapsody of Blood normally does ~350x3. You state Kali's 350x6 dmg as if getting hit by a ground Rhapsody is what will most likely happen. AA Rhapsody is escapable. It's like saying that Yuki's Ice Rain Shower will hit 2k+, just because a ground IRS is possible, or that Ice Bomb does 1.6k to 2k, because four hits isn't impossible on the ground. While we're at it, let's just say that Sieg's IH is broken because there's the slight possibility that someone will be stupid enough to get up during IH, causing it do deal 1.1k x3 dmg or more. Can you really assume Kali is unbalanced because of a ground combo with obvious holes without saying that everyone else is because they're capable of ground skill attacks too?
 
09-22-2009   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA
Incorrect. Kali's Rhapsody of Blood normally does ~350x3. You state Kali's 350x6 dmg as if getting hit by a ground Rhapsody is what will most likely happen. AA Rhapsody is escapable. It's like saying that Yuki's Ice Rain Shower will hit 2k+, just because a ground IRS is possible, or that Ice Bomb does 1.6k to 2k, because four hits isn't impossible on the ground. While we're at it, let's just say that Sieg's IH is broken because there's the slight possibility that someone will be stupid enough to get up during IH, causing it do deal 1.1k x3 dmg or more. Can you really assume Kali is unbalanced because of a ground combo with obvious holes without saying that everyone else is because they're capable of ground skill attacks too?
aa rhapsody is not escapable according to fluoride when i used it. he was unable to invinci out of it
but havnig to aa at that range is pretty hard unless ur me.. >=D

Last edited by Lunar; 09-22-2009 at 07:40 PM.
 
09-22-2009   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yumiko
I don't restrict Eirs. o.o Other than Moonbind.

I was saying that john has never restricted himself or played fair. That's all.

I've beat plenty of Eirs that max Holy Spirit, Bind, Fog, JoG, Dodge, Tears, etc.

Oh, and I'm not trying to make people limit themselves so much to the point that I have a better advantage. Great example of an Eir is EternalSky. FS Eir, but still manages to beat me because of her first hits. You just completely raped me for two reasons.

1. Eir vs Tia...Tia is liek, dead ok.
2. You go all out. As most Eirs in Glunia do.
You do know that ES actually had a pvp build earlier on and had maxed fog and HS....

If you could explain to me if this fair is based on your own opinion or this "kstyle" that is praised so much then maybe this issue could be solved. I see nothing in your idea of fair play in the kstyle that is being explained and discussed in this thread.

Also, I have no idea how you can say eir is above tia in a pvp match. If you fought the rest of the pvp eirs in the small population that exists, then I'm pretty sure you wouldn't say the same thing.

What is your idea of going all out? If you mean by using blesses and every skill that would normally be restricted by the user, then yes thats going all out to me. Unfortunately, I didn't use any blesses at all in that match. I believe my eir is the only one that still uses lvl 4 sleep bind tears fog pieces right now.... (unless I haven't seen another one) If that was what happened, then you would probably be calling eir OP. My sleep bind would have taken out all your hp or almost all of it continuing with a sacred dash as [insert combo].

John also is incredibly fair to "most" of us imo. He has great first hit which allows him to win games. I don't think his skills even hurt as much as mine right now. (Did you reset/rb?)
 
09-22-2009   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diclonius
I'd like to put in that before ijji, and maybe a bit into ijji, john had lvl 1 tears, lvl 1 holy spirit and didn't even have sleep in his build o.O
Oh yeah, when I was FS lol. It was fun while it lasted, max prayer ftw. That was back when raids were EXP I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar
aa rhapsody is not escapable according to fluoride when i used it. he was unable to invinci out of it
but havnig to aa at that range is pretty hard unless ur me.. >=D
I think you can dodge so they can't continue the combo, but u still get hit by it

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineRoyalty
What is your idea of going all out? If you mean by using blesses and every skill that would normally be restricted by the user, then yes thats going all out to me. Unfortunately, I didn't use any blesses at all in that match. I believe my eir is the only one that still uses lvl 4 sleep bind tears fog pieces right now.... (unless I haven't seen another one) If that was what happened, then you would probably be calling eir OP. My sleep bind would have taken out all your hp or almost all of it continuing with a sacred dash as [insert combo].

John also is incredibly fair to "most" of us imo. He has great first hit which allows him to win games. I don't think his skills even hurt as much as mine right now. (Did you reset/rb?)
Well... right now my build is hybrid and optimized to abuse space reset doing combos like space spirit space tears backdash dash AS S space shout bind/pieces space healcancel dash a pieces/fmb healcancel space SW etc blabla since ya damage + eir = joke and my maxed skills include rb beads, LoH, spirit, pieces, dodge. Highly regret it though, my sleepbind barely does any damage lol. I want to rb into max tears and max pieces lvl 1 spirit and maybe maxing chain not sure yet. I might rb into a team pvp build, max res and stuff lol

anyway my bad for blowing up earlier
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09-22-2009   #33 (permalink)
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out of all tries, i could not move from it
im pretty sure im not that slow at tapping 464646464
much less spamming invic each time
u can escape if they try to do seduction after it
maybe if ur a tia u can get out idk
 
09-22-2009   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silklash
out of all tries, i could not move from it
im pretty sure im not that slow at tapping 464646464
much less spamming invic each time
u can escape if they try to do seduction after it
maybe if ur a tia u can get out idk
it could be ryan has slow hit recovery, but tias cannot escape me either,
i've tried on ariens, sieg, dainn, yuki dunno if they just fail at tapping but none were able to escape. some i even asked them to test it by telling them to tap it when i started.
i think i tried vs seraphic.. he's not around nowadays so i can't ask if he tapped

not like it matters to me.. i have like 4 ways to get ppl into notebind lol (sadly the reason i quit kali so fast)
 
09-22-2009   #35 (permalink)
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I've done CBD on a Kali doing AA Rhapsody, but the Kali could have been a failure, so I dunno.
 
09-22-2009   #36 (permalink)
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Oh I thought you meant escaping as in not getting hit by it, not escaping the stun.

Ya the stun is ridic long, you're prob better off just playing the range game with kalis if they tend to do that.

But Kali's really simple and fun to combo with so lol
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Quote:
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Oh I thought you meant escaping as in not getting hit by it, not escaping the stun.
Really? I was talking about the other way around.
 
09-22-2009   #38 (permalink)
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simple is no fun there wasn't variation in kali's combos D: that and i couldn't find a combo >70 without breaking melee string rules in my tourney rules lol
 
09-22-2009   #39 (permalink)
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if u need reset for kali AAS speedbuff cancel dash space dash as but have to be right distance from wall.

i like the AA dash AS S AA dash AS S string tho really easy to learn. took me like half a day to learn how to combo with kali since she uses techniques that most other characters use already
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Hi Im Lito / Veggi And id like to part take in this disscusion/quarrel
Ehem. . .

Well to first start things off, i decided to take a closer look at this "KSTYLE" everyone seems to follow around. I had recently asked what Kstyle was in Yukimo's/Amy's Post about it.

Lunar had answered my question
Quote:
kstyle was originally created to balance classes and to remove spamming

the addition of ryan, who is completely removed from pvp as a form of kstyle, (ur basically forbidden to use him)
caused kstyle to be removed from most classes

for example.. not using prot fort, mdef is part of kstyle which is adapted for the most part in glunia
if u've never seen protfort sieg battles, go watch one, you'll figure out why it's forbidden

with the new buff patches... all classes have been "balanced" and kstyle is not that severe anymore
but the antispam still exists... if a dainn is gonna use fol, the sieg's gonna mdef, so it goes back to the dainn not wanting to use fol
klunia mdef lasts 28 secs, then u have 30 sec prot fort ur
basically screwed, so instead of trying so hard every game they just remove it

that basicaly sums it up
I began to understand a bit of it but to my opinion skills are ment to be used in a manner were poeple have the common sense to say, "Is this really worth "Spamming" at." So i decided to use DacyLunia's creation of a KLunia Acc w/o KSSN to find about this kstyle. When i had reached their pvp, I watched a Dainn Lvl 79 and a Pvp War lvl of 39. He had versed nearly every class that is populated in our GLunia; Seig,Dainn,Yuki,Kali,Arein,Eir,Tia, and Kreig. Sorry for those who use Dacy,Ryan's and soon to be Asuka's. I noticed in particular that the dainn used FOL to a max of 3x on the opponents Lifeand singled out each skill that is a "Spamming" skill. What i mean by that is how He would chose and AOE attack and use it on that life up to a max of 3 or so.What i can generalize is how using a consitant skill OVER and OVER may become quite annoying but, people have their ways and you have your way. Why not try harder not to fall into their trap OVER and OVER. I Tested this out for myself aka xTrueMelodyx and Shukumei and my Ryan*NTBM* and i still beat quite a few people; not to be mentioned.
That made me think that Kstyle shouldnt cancel out skills for the sake of an even fight but a restraint on the useage** of a skill. I re-read Yukimo's likes and dislikes about the usage of skills of each character and some by far `-` related. So then thats what i thought of My own style, LitoStyle. Most have seen on the Title of my rooms. Im still thinking of how this will relate but for now I understand if you wish to flame and you have every right to but this is what i think how Kstyle should be rather then just singling out a character and its Attacks and AOE's. What i also think is that i have every right to create my own style beacuse over 75% of Lunia follow's KLunia and their style of playing, why cant i follow my own?

Quote:
THIS IS ALL IMO
Recources: Lunar's Quote
DacyLunia's Guide to Create a KLunia acc.
Yukimo's/Amy's personal view's of KStyle.
The Dainn that I had watched previously in Klunia.
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Last edited by Veggi; 09-22-2009 at 10:49 PM.
 

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