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09-30-2008   #81 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumper
Actually, yes. It DOES happen often.
First match I go to in JL today: I see a 28 Sieg and 29 Eir fighting.

The Eir is hitting 100's with melee. The Sieg is hitting 50's.
The Eir can easily dish out 500 dmg with a single dodge.
The Sieg? probably wouldn't do that much dmg in a 20 hit combo.

I checked their stats and they had very similar gears. Nearly same stats.
I'll upload the vid if you like.
better if u tell me room so i can see for myself.. there's many factors i look at.. i dont just go.. o. look he's doing 50 dmg.. it's unfair..

@gaiety... T.T infraction! D: D: D:
i mean... YOU RUINED IT, wanted infract from godbot.. *collects infracts from different ppl*
Gaiety: o, I see you're collecting from the top down. 2bad4u lolol
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09-30-2008   #82 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumper
Actually, yes. It DOES happen often.
First match I go to in JL today: I see a 28 Sieg and 29 Eir fighting.

The Eir is hitting 100's with melee. The Sieg is hitting 50's.
The Eir can easily dish out 500 dmg with a single dodge.
The Sieg? probably wouldn't do that much dmg in a 20 hit combo.

I checked their stats and they had very similar gears. Nearly same stats.
I'll upload the vid if you like.

Edit:

Next match, a lvl 18 Sieg replaces the current Sieg. He hits 60's with melee. The Eir still hits insanly high compared to him. 120's.
Do it. And find some 100 other ones while you at it, though it does nothing to my argument, as mine covers an infinite number of cases.
 
09-30-2008   #83 (permalink)
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boo.. not enough low lvls on atm.. test incomplete D:
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09-30-2008   #84 (permalink)
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i dont get wats so unfair about the eir thing. eir has short melee, no sleep at low lvl, and sucky dodge. she should be buffed up
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09-30-2008   #85 (permalink)
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When have we ever said "omg low level Tias are imba, NERF THEM" ?

We care more about high level imbalances more than low level imbalances.
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09-30-2008   #86 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
Meh balance should make it all balance so the more skilled person will win. I know balance is trying to make the level balance but they should make the equipments balance as well. If this is case now where a noob can beat you with 1337 equips, then it should be fixed. Because for example, if 2 level 60 battle and one of them is better but have horrible gear, he should still win. And for this situation, I'm talking about him wearing no gear while the other guy wearing all +9 equips.


I think balance pvp should give every class a base stat. Then depending on if you use HP increase/ MP increase skill upgrade thingy, your hp will increase. Also, equipments will matter, but the change in damage should be like +20 damage max, like tiny little boost that might only affect battles if the two players have the same playing skills.
I like the same base stat idea. well yea it's balance, but the dmg isn't the same, dmg is dmg u( this is high lv dmg not noon lv dmg)
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10-01-2008   #87 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar
nice.. free would be so much more fairer for 30 vs 54
I said loud and clear FIGHT PEOPLE OF YOUR LVL IN FREE

30 and 54 is way diferent

And i said he was lvl21 not 30, 30 was the dmg he was doing, i ONLY fought he cuz he is a long time friend, it was just for the fun, in other condition i would never fight someone in balance, or someone with a lvl too low.

I'm just using it as an example of how broken is balanced '
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10-01-2008   #88 (permalink)
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^: Go fight a level 62 Sieg in free and then tell me how fair free is.

(Level 62 is the point at which a Sieg gets level 2 hammer)
 
10-01-2008   #89 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godbot3000
^: Go fight a level 62 Sieg in free and then tell me how fair free is.

(Level 62 is the point at which a Sieg gets level 2 hammer)
It is fair cuz HE IS a lvl62, that is actually his lvl, he worked his way for it, he deserves that skill, he is not a lvl9 char made 15 minutes ago with a insane dmg.

People should work their lvl instead of complain about someone else being "too high"
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10-01-2008   #90 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadeshi
It is fair cuz HE IS a lvl62, that is actually his lvl, he worked his way for it, he deserves that skill, he is not a lvl9 char made 15 minutes ago with a insane dmg.

People should work their lvl instead of complain about someone else being "too high"
Completely agree and reason why i don't like balance channel the way it is now.
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10-01-2008   #91 (permalink)
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The basic presumption is that said level 62 Sieg is LESS skilled than you, and probably only won due to the level advantage. I don't know how you can be content with something like that, especially if it happened during a major tournament (see previous link).

Level is an advantage, sure, but you are saying that it is fair for you, as the higher level person, to have an advantage over the other person because you "worked for it". Let's consider the level hackers of OB, they are high level aren't they? Shouldn't they be allowed to have the same advantage? Why do people decry their actions then? Before you raise an objection, consider my view that this is analogous to yeti. Sure, yeti may be a bit more work than say turning on a script and going afk, but you are still abusing something that isn't particularly fair to the people who choose to level up the hard way. In this sense, how are you different from the hackers? (And don't give me any crap about everyone having the option to yeti if they choose to; Everyone could have looked up the hacks if they choose to too.)

The point being, we have always considered Lunia to be not as grind heavy as other MMOs. As such, levels should not matter so much in anything as one gets near the level cap. However, as I have demonstrated, one level can make a world of difference in free, but not as much in balanced. This is what will cause people to lose a tournament even if they are the better pvper.

But I see that the both of you tote your levels around as a measure of status, so anything I say would be ignored. I'd like to know what you would say when Etna beats you on his low level Sieg in free.
 
10-01-2008   #92 (permalink)
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Hackers does not grind exp, they did not worked for it, if you have any problem with hacking report it and that is all, hacking is not the point of this thread.

And yeti is only grinding, will you say the same when the boss exp get raised like in the other versions? boss killing abuse? So every kind of grinding is some unfair abuse?

It is only grinding, and if they can grind you can grind too, it is part of the game, but if you dont wanna grind it is ok, but that is your problem and nobody else, i got my exp from raiding, im one of those that say "yeti sucks", but i never whined something like "oh it is unfair fight that guy cuz his lvl is from yeting".

And balance changes in just 1 lvl, try get a lvl9 dain, he will make 700 per hit in FB, but in lvl10 FB will do 200 per hit.

If balance was good they would use it in klunia tournaments
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10-01-2008   #93 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadeshi
Hackers does not grind exp, they did not worked for it, if you have any problem with hacking report it and that is all, hacking is not the point of this thread.

And yeti is only grinding, will you say the same when the boss exp get raised like in the other versions? boss killing abuse? So every kind of grinding is some unfair abuse?

It is only grinding, and if they can grind you can grind too, it is part of the game, but if you dont wanna grind it is ok, but that is your problem and nobody else, i got my exp from raiding, im one of those that say "yeti sucks", but i never whined something like "oh it is unfair fight that guy cuz his lvl is from yeting".
You're missing the point: Yeti is unfair to those who choose not to abuse the inherent programming oversight in that stage to level up. Hacking is unfair to those who choose not to abuse the hacks to level up. Hacking and glitch exploitation are both bad in the game company's eyes. Therefore the only thing that would be 'just grinding' in their eyes would be things that are NOT hacking and are NOT glitch exploitation. Such things may be slower, yes, but they at least are 100% acceptable.

Quote:
And balance changes in just 1 lvl, try get a lvl9 dain, he will make 700 per hit in FB, but in lvl10 FB will do 200 per hit.
Again, isolated incident that does not apply as much as the whole slew of incidents in which a higher level will have a massive advantage over a lower level unconditionally in free. Asides from that, WHO CARES ABOUT LOW LEVELS? Hasn't it been your argument all along that level is the most important thing in the world? Do you intend to contradict yourself?

Quote:
If balance was good they would use it in klunia tournaments
They did, only the last tournament was in free. And it demonstrated how badly level advantage can hurt a match.
 
10-01-2008   #94 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godbot3000
You're missing the point: Yeti is unfair to those who choose not to abuse the inherent programming oversight in that stage to level up. Hacking is unfair to those who choose not to abuse the hacks to level up. Hacking and glitch exploitation are both bad in the game company's eyes. Therefore the only thing that would be 'just grinding' in their eyes would be things that are NOT hacking and are NOT glitch exploitation. Such things may be slower, yes, but they at least are 100% acceptable.
I don't think its unfair at all. Your trading faster leveling up for no gold, no equips, and its really boring. I don't yeti due to the fact that its too boring for my taste. If I ever have to grind in any online game, it reminds me too much of MS, which is why I quit.

I think the only thing unfair about it is the no mat glitch. Other than that, I think yeti plat is fine.

I really could care less if there were like 100 level 60 tia like instantly out of no where or someone hitting level 65 really fast. It doesn't affect anyone. Maybe if you play free, you would complain about yeti plat, but you like balance anyways. Why should you care about other people's level?
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10-01-2008   #95 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godbot3000
Again, isolated incident that does not apply as much as the whole slew of incidents in which a higher level will have a massive advantage over a lower level unconditionally in free. Asides from that, WHO CARES ABOUT LOW LEVELS?
I never said to low levels fight high levels, that is retarded as well, why the F*** people keep saying that? i already said in this thread two times FIGHT PEOPLE OF YOUR OWN LVL IN FREE! capiche?

And I care when a good dain leaves his main and make a low lvl dain to abuse the retard damage in balance, and it is not isolated, it is just an example, this thread started cuz of another "isolated incident"
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10-01-2008   #96 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
I don't think its unfair at all. Your trading faster leveling up for no gold, no equips, and its really boring. I don't yeti due to the fact that its too boring for my taste. If I ever have to grind in any online game, it reminds me too much of MS, which is why I quit.
On the contrary: The time that you saved by doing yeti can be put to farming equipments of FAR greater value than what you get grinding out that time in raids or whatever, as you would not be forced to do a particular stage, but rather can do any stage you want.

Quote:
I really could care less if there were like 100 level 60 tia like instantly out of no where or someone hitting level 65 really fast. It doesn't affect anyone.
Doesn't it? Going back to you getting the carp beat out of you by a hypothetical level 73 tia that "popped" out of nowhere. Would you concede that said Tia would be superior to you in pvp? Or would you continue saying "well I don't pvp people not close to my level because of differences in ability" or whatever? Fact of the matter is, no matter what you say, if you faced off against that tia in a formal tournament set in free, you would lose and that tia would be considered a better pvper than you are, even if they are not. Losers don't get squat.

Quote:
Maybe if you play free, you would complain about yeti plat, but you like balance anyways. Why should you care about other people's level?
I don't care about other people level in balance, but I do care about other people's level in free. I don't see what you're trying to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadeshi
I never said to low levels fight high levels, why the F*** people keep saying that? i already said in this thread two times FIGHT PEOPLE OF YOUR OWN LVL IN FREE! capiche?
And I keep saying that this thread is NOT a discussion about what you would do to alleviate the apparent imbalances in any mode, but a discussion on whether balanced is unfair or not and by extension, whether free is fairer than balanced.

Quote:
And I care when a good dain leaves his main and make a low lvl dain to abuse the retard damage in balance, and it is not isolated, it is just an example, this thread started cuz of another "isolated incident"
Which is precisely why I think the OP's argument has NO MERIT WHATSOEVER. Thank you for illustrating my point.
 
10-01-2008   #97 (permalink)
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On the contrary: The time that you saved by doing yeti can be put to farming equipments of FAR greater value than what you get grinding out that time in raids or whatever, as you would not be forced to do a particular stage, but rather can do any stage you want.
So? Its the person's decision on what they want to do. If they care more about level let them yeti.

Quote:
Doesn't it? Going back to you getting the carp beat out of you by a hypothetical level 73 tia that "popped" out of nowhere. Would you concede that said Tia would be superior to you in pvp? Or would you continue saying "well I don't pvp people not close to my level because of differences in ability" or whatever? Fact of the matter is, no matter what you say, if you faced off against that tia in a formal tournament set in free, you would lose and that tia would be considered a better pvper than you are, even if they are not. Losers don't get squat.

I don't care about other people level in balance, but I do care about other people's level in free. I don't see what you're trying to say.
In free, I only play people my level or higher. If they are like 13 levels higher than me, I would stay play them. If I get beaten, then I know what I have to work on, which is my level. Because free is based on skills, gears, and level, I know I have to work on my level and just raid some more and get some nice equips during that process. Thats what I did for the PVP torny hosted by TFT. My level was too low when the torny was announced so I just raided non-stop cause I know my playing skills didn't need any work on it, cause I know that it was awesome.
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10-01-2008   #98 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
So? Its the person's decision on what they want to do. If they care more about level let them yeti.
You missed the point once again: That yeti abusers would be able to get BETTER equipment overall is clearly unfair who those who do not abuse it. And the fact still remains that it is an exploit, which is unacceptable to the game company. Whether the community accepts it is irrelevant.

Quote:
In free, I only play people my level or higher. If they are like 13 levels higher than me, I would stay play them. If I get beaten, then I know what I have to work on, which is my level. Because free is based on skills, gears, and level, I know I have to work on my level and just raid some more and get some nice equips during that process. Thats what I did for the PVP torny hosted by TFT. My level was too low when the torny was announced so I just raided non-stop cause I know my playing skills didn't need any work on it, cause I know that it was awesome.
I see we have an irreconcilable difference in opinion here. I do not weigh level in my calculations of merit and you do. *shrugs*
 
10-01-2008   #99 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godbot3000
I see we have an irreconcilable difference in opinion here. I do not weigh level in my calculations of merit and you do. *shrugs*

Let's change the word "level" for the world "effort", that is our point
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10-01-2008   #100 (permalink)
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So this is about Jlunia balanced PvP?
First off, we can't really do much about it since it's Jlunia.
Second, Glunia will be up next week.
Third, this may come in handy to tell the GM's from ijji about this issue this we're gonna copy everything.
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