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09-30-2008   #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpecial
Or... you could balance balanced to make it more balanced.
QFT...

Balanced mode is what makes Lunia better than Atlantica for me
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09-30-2008   #42 (permalink)
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The thing is, how many level 60's actually PVP someone lower than lvl 20?

NEVER

Even in free, I don't pvp anyone lower than level 50 because
1. lower level = less stats (hp,damage)
2. most of them cant pvp well enough for a challenge

Which is why I never pvp anyone low level. If its someone below level 50 who really wants to pvp me, I would go to balance.

If there is a problem with gears, like one person have godly vit/damage gear, you can:
1. ask both to play naked in free
2. get better gears (it would help you full pvpers to actually stay alive in raids)

But for now, I'm sticking with free. If they managed to make balance actually balance, like less dependant on level and gear, I'll gladly play balance.
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09-30-2008   #43 (permalink)
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^: Say that again after you get hit by a level 73 tia's stab, or a level 73 sieg's d-fist.
 
09-30-2008   #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godbot3000
^: Say that again after you get hit by a level 73 tia's stab, or a level 73 sieg's d-fist.
I'll say it again since I'll be the level 73 back stabbing people. =]
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09-30-2008   #45 (permalink)
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I always ask for a dmg check before I fight anyone in balanced to make sure it's balanced.

(Etna, don't you remem when we made our limes? Yours was 38 I think mines was 36 and we pvped. I did about 1.5x more dmg on all melee+skills even though my stats were inferior.)
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09-30-2008   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
I'll say it again since I'll be the level 73 back stabbing people. =]
In other words, you *want* to exploit unfairness.
 
09-30-2008   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godbot3000
In other words, you *want* to exploit unfairness.
You're talking to a Tia with 3k hp and 180+ dmg. >>;
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09-30-2008   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godbot3000
In other words, you *want* to exploit unfairness.
Well as I said, I don't play noobs or low level. I only play people in free who are a challenge. So that means that they could probably do the same to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumper
You're talking to a Tia with 3k hp and 180+ dmg. >>;
And yes, I get godly gears just because everyone went to free. I use to be full pvp and not care about gears. I only started to care about my stats because of that torny which was in free. Its no use arguing to people to move to balance because it will not happen instantly. Its faster to get better gears and beating people at their own game.
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09-30-2008   #49 (permalink)
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I don't see how that's relevant. The point is, balanced at least makes an attempt to round out the extreme advantage high levels have over low levels, where as free = auto one hit kill.

I cited level 65+ skills as an example as they show exactly how extreme a difference just one more level makes. A level 69 sieg will probably lose to a level 70 sieg in free, due to the HUGE increase in damage from whirling sword. But in balance the match would be at least somewhat more even (the level 70's whirling would still do more damage, but it isn't a 200 damage difference).

The match I linked is a very good example of this. The level 66 sieg was clearly the better pvper, given that he was able to take his opponent down to 1 life even while having much lower hp and dealing only half the damage. But then I guess I'm wasting my time here. Both of you think that is perfectly fair.
 
09-30-2008   #50 (permalink)
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[youtube]FqFGxyt5HjA[/youtube]
Hope it processes.
(It's JL so vid is very laggy. That's just the visual lag. Not the 2 sec delay that I have to work with btw x.x)
edit: yay it worked!
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09-30-2008   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godbot3000
I don't see how that's relevant. The point is, balanced at least makes an attempt to round out the extreme advantage high levels have over low levels, where as free = auto one hit kill.

I cited level 65+ skills as an example as they show exactly how extreme a difference just one more level makes. A level 69 sieg will probably lose to a level 70 sieg in free, due to the HUGE increase in damage from whirling sword. But in balance the match would be at least somewhat more even (the level 70's whirling would still do more damage, but it isn't a 200 damage difference).

The match I linked is a very good example of this. The level 66 sieg was clearly the better pvper, given that he was able to take his opponent down to 1 life even while having much lower hp and dealing only half the damage. But then I guess I'm wasting my time here. Both of you think that is perfectly fair.
I'm talking about GLunia here. No one is close to level 70 and we don't even have the patch for level 65+ skills. So thats nothing to worry about at the moment. Also when it does come out and it starts becoming unfair, I don't see any reason for anyone to stay in free. If no one is in free, then everyone goes balance.

This topic is just saying how balance is broken. I just hope they fix it before everyone moves over there.

And jumper, I cant watch your youtube thingy. Its says that its down.
EDIT: nvm it works now, i guess u fixed it
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09-30-2008   #52 (permalink)
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Oh ok, an example for GLunia then:

Take the case of a level 58 sieg vs a level 59 sieg. In case you didn't know, 59 is the level at which one can max out d-fist.

Still the same one level of difference. Still the world of difference in free.
 
09-30-2008   #53 (permalink)
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Oh noes, a level 2 can do 1/3rd of your HP with one combo!

... wait, you can kill them in one or two combos with all of your skill advantage, huh.

Point moot.
 
09-30-2008   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godbot3000
Oh ok, an example for GLunia then:

Take the case of a level 58 sieg vs a level 59 sieg. In case you didn't know, 59 is the level at which one can max out d-fist.

Still the same one level of difference. Still the world of difference in free.
Yes... because that is free. I'm not saying higher level won't have the advantage in free. >_>

This topic is to debate the idea of the brokenness of balance, not how free works. We all know how free works considering we have been pvping there for the past several months.

But we really don't know how balance works because not many people have been playing there. Also that balance isn't really balance because it still takes level and gears into accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaiety
Oh noes, a level 2 can do 1/3rd of your HP with one combo!

... wait, you can kill them in one or two combos with all of your skill advantage, huh.

Point moot.
I made a lvl 1X tia before and I killed a lvl 50+ with only 2 skills. If the low level player actually have experience with that character, they can chain really long combos, know how to avoid combos and start them easily.
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09-30-2008   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaiety
Oh noes, a level 2 can do 1/3rd of your HP with one combo!

... wait, you can kill them in one or two combos with all of your skill advantage, huh.

Point moot.
That's 1/2 of my hp in a combo: AASS hd AAS.
She did a 4/5 one in the life before that.
And in the match after that she did AASS hd AAS Down atk for ALL of my hp.
Yay I have skills that hit even LESS than her melee! And melee that hits even less than her shuriken. WHAT AN ADVANTAGE I HAVE HUH?

It's like Lime nonxform vs Lime lvl 40 xform.
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09-30-2008   #56 (permalink)
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Your opponent didn't even have Flying Fang to reset height to keep AASSing for a one-combo kill. You did about 1/3 to 1/2 of your opponent's HP in one combo from :15 to :20.

Equally broken = balanced zomg!!!11
 
09-30-2008   #57 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
Yes... because that is free. I'm not saying higher level won't have the advantage in free. >_>
And certainly that's fairer for lowbies then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
This topic is to debate the idea of the brokenness of balance, not how free works.
I am using a proof by contradiction. Summary of the form:
1. Assume that balance is unfair.
2. If balance is unfair, then free must be fairer than balanced.
3. If free is fairer than balanced, then one level should not matter as significantly in free as it does in balanced.
4. One level can make the difference in free, but not as much in balanced.
5. #3 is contradicted.
6. #2 is contradicted.
7. #1 is contradicted. Thus forcing you to accept the contrary conclusion: Balance is not unfair.

To what extent it is not unfair is something that you may dispute. But given that you already affirmed several of my premises, you have already accepted my conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
We all know how free works considering we have been pvping there for the past several months.
Yes, and I'm sure the world is flat given that we have thought it to be flat for over 2500 years. Invalid argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
But we really don't know how balance works because not many people have been playing there. Also that balance isn't really balance because it still takes level and gears into accounts.
But we do know how balanced works given that in the initial days, everyone was in balanced.
 
09-30-2008   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaiety
Your opponent didn't even have Flying Fang to reset height to keep AASSing for a one-combo kill. You did about 1/3 to 1/2 of your opponent's HP in one combo from :15 to :20.

Equally broken = balanced zomg!!!11
Thats like saying a Sieg's Nado + Dfist + Whirling Sword Combo should't do a lot of damage. Some combos were meant to do more than just your basic AASS. Combos that takes more skills should do more damage.
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09-30-2008   #59 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
Thats like saying a Sieg's Nado + Dfist + Whirling Sword Combo should't do a lot of damage. Some combos were meant to do more than just your basic AASS. Combos that takes more skills should do more damage.
You're missing my point. Jumper is stating that balanced is broken because these low levels do ridiculous damage. Higher levels get to do said ridiculous damage because they have skills that the low levels do not have access to.

/case-point
 
09-30-2008   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaiety
Your opponent didn't even have Flying Fang to reset height to keep AASSing for a one-combo kill. You did about 1/3 to 1/2 of your opponent's HP in one combo from :15 to :20.

Equally broken = balanced zomg!!!11
Without lag you can easily do AASS hd 3-5x without pickups. Which she did in some fights. For all of my hp.

Quote:
Thats like saying a Sieg's Nado + Dfist + Whirling Sword Combo should't do a lot of damage. Some combos were meant to do more than just your basic AASS. Combos that takes more skills should do more damage.
Right, why should I have to do AASS FTS <<A CB(1) Blind Fang(c) AASS FTK BS to = the dmg of her one AASS?
It's probably impossible without slips + bombs to infinite enough to do a 1hkocombo. But She could just do a simple AASS AAS sp for all of my hp?
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