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05-26-2008   #1 (permalink)
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Default inkblot's complete Siren strategy including reasons and logic

ok im tired of having to try to convince ppl that my strategy for siren will work because they never really gave me the chance to explain EVERYTHING about my strategy. So im finally a bit aggitated about it and decided to just post it up here in the forums and reply to any "flaws" to my strategy and as well as explain my tactic to the fullest detail.

Party requirements: at least 3 eirs... the rest of the party is preferably 3 siegs and 2 wiz's.. wiz's can be replaced with tias.

Basic strategy action: Everyone stays compact near kirke while healers are directly inside kirke, wiz/siegs are slightly outside. healers constantly buff/heal/barrier/res/ect, Siegs mellee the pirates and meatsheild the kirke and the helaers and even the wiz's so they can freely cast w/o being interupted. Wiz, do the dmg and try to kill the pirates asap as well as constantly ice wall. Every player is allowed to dmg a siren ONLY at times where it safe to do so... What counts as safe is kirke at full hp, more than 6 or more other players are near kirke defending/healing/dmging against pirates, 1 buff is up, and possibly at least 1 barrier is up.

Details of actual battle strategy:
Eirs: eirs try to chain buffs so that we're constantly buffed with he max hp or LE or w/e... ppl tend to argue with me saying that "well dont you know kirke will just cancel it with his buff" my reply to that is, so what, his buff isnt gonna last forever u can buff between his buff and so that way there wont be a time where you are volnurable. would u prefer a short time of invulnerability or a constant invulnerablility? EXACTLY... At times when its "safe conditions" then you can use your offensive spells such as throwing peices at target siren or using JOG on the pirates. be aware that once you have casted one or two offensive spells you should quickly go back to being defensive inside kirke and let ur mana regen/spell cooldown... To prevent wasted over healing the 3 eirs each have their own designated job of healing. 1 eir concentrates on the party members hp and casts her aoe heals at times where at least 1 member is on the verge of dieing. 1 eir saves some healing spells for times when kirke is less than 60%% hp. The last eir uses her spells for when times of either occurences of kirke or party member, so yes this is basically the eir that spams as almost always. Ideally these are the order of priorities that all eirs will keep - everyone at full hp, then everyone is buff'd with something, at least 1 barrier is up, you are not mana screwed, then you can go dmg a siren/pirate, then let time pass to regen mana and let spells cooldown.

Wiz: Since there is preferably 2 wiz's each wiz has their job with ice wall... 1 wiz icewalls for pirates, the other wiz can icewall the back of a siren (not the siren that ppl are trying to kill) so that the siren will shoot at that direction. your main job is to kill the pirates asap and also at "safe conditions" go dmg a siren using 2-3 QUICK spells so that you can return and be a 2nd line of defence for the healers/kirke against the pirates/notes. MAKE SURE YOU GO BACK IN PLACE to distract pirates again. If there is a tia in replace of a wiz, their main job is to push back the pirates as much as they can w/o dieing and on safe conditions do quick backstabs on a siren an try to make it change thier shooting direction, but MAKE SURE YOU GO STRAIGHT BACK TO MID once youve done 1-3 skills to a siren and help out with the defence against the pirates.

Siegs: you are the main 1st line of defence and with the hp buff of the eirs (and preferably the use of buff hp pot) your main job is to mellee the pirates away and take some dmg from notes that were being aimed in the middle anyway. at times of "safe conditions" u can go ahead and use a dfist/IMS/FDS on a siren and quickly return. You're job is to take the hits so that that other memebrs of the party will not be interupted when casting their spells. You have 3 healers with u casting AOE heals and you should have about 3k hp with the buffs, so yes you should the the hits rather than the other members, but only take the hits that were coming middle anyway, you do not want to add more pressure to the healers than they already do. dfist/IMS/FDS (takes less than 7 seconds to cast all 3) all use up mana quickly t so once you use them you really MUST come back to mid to defend against pirates and let your mana and skills cooldown. DO NOT WASTE TIME MELLEEING SIREN, kirke needs u more to mellee the pirates that are killing him

Logic and reasoning portion including counter arguments of other strats:
One of the main reasons why everyone should be in the middle is because of the notes dmg scheme. No matter what you do, dmg will happen in the middle because kirke is in the middle. Now suppose you split up by 1 team attacking and one with kirke, you are taking double the dmg stress because you are in two spots of the area rather than one, meaning bullets will hit both middle AND the area of the attacking team rather than just the middle. IE, you are getting shot and kirke is getting shot, rather than you are getting shot FOR kirke as if he's the president and you're his body guard. The notes are concentrated near the sirens and are spread out by distance and so higher dmg occurs near sirens anyway meaning you shouldnt be near a siren for long anyway. A common strat that everyone tries is the voke the pirates away from mid... The flaws within that strat is that the voker cant be healed if he's trying to lure them away from everyone else, as well as voke doesnt last constantly unless u add another person to do it and that extra person will need heals as well so ud have to have a healer to heal them and that healer will be overstressed because shes taking dmg and her spells are being interupted and unlike my strat, she is alone to fend off for her own heals. another flaw is that there are constant pirates spawn, you may not get to voke all of the pirates, or you may get interupted when voking and so you get screwed if some mistake happens (which almost always will tend to happen) and so a few pirates will still be killing off a defenceless kirke. Another common strat is that 2 ppl are constantly trying to make 2 sirens face away while there is a kirke defending group and a siren attacking group that is also trying to make the sirens face the other way. The flaw with that strat is that the kirke defending group does not have enough ppl to defend against 6 or more pirates with notes being thrown at them. the most ppl in the middle within that strat with be 4, meaning those 4 will have to deal with 6 or more pirates and eat up notes they cant avoid. That alone is major stress, but the attacking force will then not have any defensive healers to heal them if they get hit and so that a lot of stress on them not to die either (what if one of the attackers die, or what if a pirate bothers them). This is not a terrible strat but it still adds unesesarry stress for everyone. So eventually some flaw will happen and everyone will tend to die. Ok now i will explain how my strat eliminates those other flaws and just makes loogical sense. We all know that the siren bosses take very very long to kill and so logically you have to try more of defence than offence because for sure you will be in that battle for a long time. My strategy is obviously very defensive. My strategy ensures that pirates will not kill kirke and party members should die before kirke. Kirke is top priority, the game ends if he dies, not if 1 other member dies. Ppl will argue that my strat doesnt do anything but just sit there and die, I say they are just using my strat wrong because i wasnt there to explain to them that they should take turns to spam quick skills on the siren and return back asap. Ppl then argue that its just not enough dmg, but I disagree because spells do have cool down and your mana does need to regen in the meantime so you cant do a full constant offence anyway, my strat just uses time wisely for every character. Ppl just like to mellee a boss constantly and atatck constantly, but answer me this what other bosses in the game just lets you mellee it constantly w/o backing off and lets you live and win (without using glitches of course or changing aggro)? there is none, so why should this one be any different? In daru you just spam skills a couple seconds when he's open and then you back off, so why does it become different in this when i explain that we should back off and go back to kirke after a couple seconds of attackiong a boss. Ppl will also say that the requirement of using specific skills and hp buff pots and such has not been the way to beat stages before and so you dont believe me. Well my reply to that is that Its a STRATEGY, its just a detailed plan of how to win, meaining yes it is understood that you can win by just being super buffed up, but if you are not then specific plans can be effective. This raid is probably still requires good skill with just ppl that are lvl 61+ meaning we have to make up for that lvl difference... we can make it up with strategy and buff pots and just generally being extra careful. Many ppl in lunia are just so used to glitches that they just dont like to to play skillfully against bosses. Look, with the consideration that good skills have high cooldown and take lots of mana, I swear I do not see how ppl can say that my strategy does not have enough offence by taking turns for dmg, I think its a lie that you're just trying to fool yourself on.

If you have any other legit flaws about my strategy i'll be happy to reply to it and reason with it or hopefully fix my strategy to overcome that flaw, but otherwise keep in mind that im thinking of outweighing flaws to one another, as in i'd rather keep a small flaw than open a bigger one by trying to fix the small flaw.

Anyways if you would like to form a party with me and try my strategy WHOLE HEARTEDLY unlike all the other times that had missing details or unwilling players just doing their own thing then please leave your name and i'll try and see if I can organize a group. Sure this seems like a lot of work but i think this difficulty makes it fun.

ign inkblot
 
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05-26-2008   #2 (permalink)
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05-26-2008   #3 (permalink)
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hmm seems to be a good stratagy but let me summon it up

6 people block kirke and kill pirates 2 attack siren res of party that protecting kirke can spam aoe at siren
healers should cast buffs ls/le
wiz ice wall pirates
siegs knock pirates away
and everyone tryies to block notes?

is this basicly the stratagy?
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05-27-2008   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evileyes
hmm seems to be a good stratagy but let me summon it up

6 people block kirke and kill pirates 2 attack siren res of party that protecting kirke can spam aoe at siren
healers should cast buffs ls/le
wiz ice wall pirates
siegs knock pirates away
and everyone tryies to block notes?

is this basicly the stratagy?
well for the attacking part, ppl take turns, 2 attackers AT most, with 2-5 secs of attacking/spamming so yah... and no healers should never try to get hit with the notes
 
05-27-2008   #5 (permalink)
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Keep in mind MB has a cooldown about double the length of its duration, not to mention the severe cooldown on healer buffs and the fact that Light Shield will cancel upon melee attacks and healing. Half the time the barriers would be down and you would be bombarded by notes, so if this strategy were to be implemented it would be best to save an LS cast for when the barriers go down so you can idle around Kirke and protect him that way until MB comes back up, in which case the healers have to manage to cast it without being canceled. Sirens also have an insane amount of health so you'd have to endure for several minutes if you attack the Siren's rarely and only with a few ranged attacks.

Just a few things to note.
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05-27-2008   #6 (permalink)
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Healer buffs also cost a truckton of mana AND HP (in the case of Life Extension) to cast.
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05-27-2008   #7 (permalink)
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Why would a healer constantly buff when kirke already has that provided?

The point here is to not even cast any buffs at all, thats what Kirke is there for.


I agree...

-3 healers is a must 4 is optional

-everyone should stay in the middle

-MB 3 is a must

-Spamming skills isnt efficient, though safe yet simultaenously not efficient enough

=-=-=

Healers: One healer needs to be a constant kirke healer, the other 2 are back ups and not to mention the party healers. That specific healer is assigned the safe spot. Stand directly on Kirke so that healer avoids all notes possible and let Kirke tank the notes for you.

NOTE: This healer must have a lot of MP pots.

Assign each healer a side to MB, so you avoid numerous MB's on one side.

Dont use JoG as an offensive skill, use it as a emergency healing skill for Kirke when worse comes to worse.

There should be no healer what so ever assisting in fending off sirens, All healers must stay in the middle and keep watch for mobs and down attack any turtles they see. Unless of course you are a battle a healer, other than that keep your LoH reserved for Kirke.

Knights: One Knight needs to be on constant watch for the pirate/turtle spawns. Voke them off kirke and that specific Knight along with a Tia or Dainn assists in the Mob kill. Make use of the crit buffs Kirke casts as well.

Wizards: Stay in the middle and wait for the Light Shield buff from Kirke, 15 seconds to pummel all your skills on one siren without taking much dmg. Also can be an assistant with mobs

Thiefs: Make use of the crit buff Kirke casts is all i have to say. I suggest any tia to be a Mob assistant with the voker. Wind kick, or Fairy thorn sword pirates away from Kirke.
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