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08-29-2010   2 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #1 (permalink)
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Question Reactions to most recent patch?

I wouldn't dare post this on Ijji forums since the competency level is substantially higher here. In the several years I've been playing Lunia, I've never seen such a divide over a single patch.

It seems like half of the population is either experiencing horrible lag/errors/fatals and more. The other half is complaining that it's either too hard or the GMs suck (disregard the fact that GMs don't do anything besides announce stuff and ban players.) Then there's a few ignoramuses who think that the lag is due to someone's computer and not Ijji's servers. I keep assuring them that it's not and I'm able to play Ktest/KLunia with minimal lag, but our Lunia is virtually unplayable for me, and once I learned how to screw around with my graphics card I haven't had any lag. So that's clearly not the case.

I'm glad they increased the HP level of enemies, but the need to do every single stage is kinda useless. I think that the previous system where it was only necessary to do the X-5 and then X-10 stages was flawed too, however. A better system would be like: X-1, X-3, X-5, X-8, X-10.

If I wasn't lagging so hard, I might have more of an opinion on stuff, but as far as I can tell the content of the update was good, but the execution was full of fail.
 
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08-29-2010   #2 (permalink)
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Everyone is experiencing some kind of lag, its clearly the servers and not your computer. Im sure ijji is working on fixing this problem because it is the main problem in this patch. I have to set my settings on low and my resolution to 800 x 600 because it lags that bad, but low settings + small screen just to play without lag makes me question if I want to bother to go on again.

As for the increase in difficulty, there is something that is done correctly. Before this update, all you had to do was 1 skill inorder to kill a whole mob, its better now. Each stage should be harder and should require more skill to pass. Wheres the fun if you win each time? Its okay if you cant pass a stage, that should be a sign to try and get better and a challenge is part of the fun. Back in OB, my eir would take 2 or 3 hits and I would die(1.2k HP). It was hard, but also made the game challenging and fun. Thats when skill was actually needed instead of spamming buttons to win. Stages like 3-10L and cobolt raid were fun and required teamwork. Stages should have gotten harder a long time ago to match the new items like AEH and AWD. AFD and IV items are 2x if not 3x better, so there really shouldnt be any complaints about the difficulty of enemies.

What i really DO NOT like is how ijji trys to make everything easier. For example, ancient rodesian IV items are much easier to get compared to before. Its possible to get 8-10 item bags in one game if your soloing. I practically have the whole set after 2 hours of farming 7-3 and I know that other players have spent 5x, 10x, or 20x the amount of time to get it. Same thing happened to bonus items right after bonus 2 came out. In my eyes, you can try hard and spend all the time you want or just slack off and wait a little while and reach the same point as another player who tried a lot harder than you.

Another thing I dislike is the new flinching system, it should be taken off. I dont know about the difference in myth because I havent tried it out yet, but it seems like a problem.

I do like all the new quests, and I think there should be more. Ijji should focus on more quests and a storyline, rather than making more and more new items. There are other new things I like, but they are minimal.

As for PVP, I shouldnt even begin on that topic....
 
08-29-2010   #3 (permalink)
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I don't mind the difficulty of the game as it is, but you have to remember. We (as in most of us on this forum.) Have been here from OB > TFT, and back in OB it was even harder.

However I have went though some of the levels solo on a new character, and have to say, as a new player JUST starting this game it is honestly, WAY too hard. It takes me awhile to kill bosses with my 1k str. How do you think they feel with 200-600? I have also asked a few new guests in my family, and talked to them, and they are very discouraged at the starting difficulty.

As for doing all of the levels, I really don’t understand AllM at all. When you first start the game, you should have to “Unlock” all of the stages, and you unlock them by completing the one before it. Once you RB, you keep all of the said “unlocked” stages, But can’t go to certain stages until you reach the required level. That would be the perfect fix, I don’t know why they are so dense.

Also to the post above me, it's not ijji, it's AllM. As far as I know ijji has no control over the drop rate of stage items. However they have control over the drop rate of things like the Blue Apple in the Cash Shop. Also, AllM's last patch in kLunia should be nice for PvPers, we just have to wait for it.

Last edited by Twitch; 08-29-2010 at 09:40 PM.
 
08-29-2010   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
What i really DO NOT like is how ijji trys to make everything easier. For example, ancient rodesian IV items are much easier to get compared to before. Its possible to get 8-10 item bags in one game if your soloing. I practically have the whole set after 2 hours of farming 7-3 and I know that other players have spent 5x, 10x, or 20x the amount of time to get it. Same thing happened to bonus items right after bonus 2 came out.
No offense, but ijji is merely adding the content directly from klunia. I believe it was the same on ktest when Lunia Z came out. The same goes for bonus equipment.
 
08-30-2010   #5 (permalink)
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Case and point about competency level of Ijji users:
Grieverus - ijji Forums

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twitch

However I have went though some of the levels solo on a new character, and have to say, as a new player JUST starting this game it is honestly, WAY too hard. It takes me awhile to kill bosses with my 1k str. How do you think they feel with 200-600? I have also asked a few new guests in my family, and talked to them, and they are very discouraged at the starting difficulty.
I'm sure we all said that way back when, but that's what forced people to be good. It was sort of like forced evolution/natural selection. Maybe this will breed a new generation of decent PVPers and give a second wind to this game.

I actually did a combo the other day without having the enemy die before I finished it due to disproportionately low HP to my damage output.

Last edited by Griever; 08-30-2010 at 09:39 AM.
 
08-30-2010   #6 (permalink)
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Lol. DemonicDawn. Anyone know who the hell is that? Coz.. Yeah. Sorry Grieverus <3
I think you really should stop posting in that forum. :/ You do know how low people can be at ijji right? :/

Back on-topic. The patch itself imo is okay patch. But changing breakable pillar to UNBREAKABLE in B3 is just stupid. :/
The ONLY thing that can destroy Daru before he destroys you is, Dainn, Hide, 1 Hit-Ko. Lol.. Eir can no longer solo. It's bad enough they replaced her with that Chinese guy. :/
AllM can NEVER do things right. There's always flaw with their plans. PvP, stage system, difficulty level, drop rates %. So much more.

But the good thing is that new players will learn how to THINK while playing this game instead of, spam d-fist and the run-around like some sort of weirdo waiting for CD and the spam it again. I don't think its TOO hard for new players.. Since everyone knows how HARD was Lunia before it was 'fixed/upgraded'. So yeah.. But seriously the drop rate % is... GAH. Lol. I just saw a newbie with 3 pieces of rod4 running around the sq and I have none still. >_>; (Good thing about this the prices will drop! ^-^)

Yeah.. And M5 is hell (get the irony? ;D). ;-;
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08-30-2010   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stsim144
Lol. DemonicDawn. Anyone know who the hell is that? Coz.. Yeah. Sorry Grieverus <3
I think you really should stop posting in that forum. :/ You do know how low people can be at ijji right? :/

Back on-topic. The patch itself imo is okay patch. But changing breakable pillar to UNBREAKABLE in B3 is just stupid. :/
The ONLY thing that can destroy Daru before he destroys you is, Dainn, Hide, 1 Hit-Ko. Lol.. Eir can no longer solo. It's bad enough they replaced her with that Chinese guy. :/
AllM can NEVER do things right. There's always flaw with their plans. PvP, stage system, difficulty level, drop rates %. So much more.

But the good thing is that new players will learn how to THINK while playing this game instead of, spam d-fist and the run-around like some sort of weirdo waiting for CD and the spam it again. I don't think its TOO hard for new players.. Since everyone knows how HARD was Lunia before it was 'fixed/upgraded'. So yeah.. But seriously the drop rate % is... GAH. Lol. I just saw a newbie with 3 pieces of rod4 running around the sq and I have none still. >_>; (Good thing about this the prices will drop! ^-^)

Yeah.. And M5 is hell (get the irony? ;D). ;-;
D: Hell doesn't burn you... it drowns you!

I'll be posting Ijji forum fails in random forum for the next while. The next few threads should be up tonight : D

Part 1 is up in random forum already.

And uh... wtf. Do you mean Daru's pillars? That's nuts D:
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08-30-2010   #8 (permalink)
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^ I was on the forums for a while, I didn't like their maturity level there rofl, Instead of taking it to PMs ( which they should have ) some1 made a thread about it, amazing.
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08-30-2010   #9 (permalink)
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I haven't been on cuz my college internet sucks lolol. Did Eir get her 2 passives or not? And I see a lot of problems I thought wouldn't have occured, lmaooo.
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08-30-2010   #10 (permalink)
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Honestly I love the recent patch. It reminds me so much of OBT, yes it is HARD that's what makes a game a good game. Yeah you definitely have to do parties for the history stages now, but I think Lunia is meant to be a party type game where you actually have to interact with other people.

Yes I think having to do every stage now is a little stupid since we have so many to do now, and I also think they should have left the hp alone on rocks and stuff (takes the whole party attacking to break rocks in coc4 now if you don't have hkd >_> )

But I think this patch was much needed. Noobs will no longer be able to play the higher stages if they don't learn how to play efficiently now. (No offense to anyone though!)

Yes I've done myth 5 lots of times on my Eir and we got our asses kicked plenty of times. Until we re-learn (for those of us from OB, since most of us got use to the easy lunia T_T ) we'll have lots of trouble doing stages. But once we do learn how to properly dodge and attack and heal again I think we'll enjoy it being a difficult game again instead of easy and getting bored of it in a week or 2.

Just my 2 cents though
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08-30-2010   #11 (permalink)
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Honestly, here's my input:

New player perspective (as best as possible)
Currently, the difficulty level in this game seems moderate at the beginning. No enemies too high hp and lots of equipment drops for a moderate chance of an early IV item. They can enjoy reading the storyline instead of zooming so fast that they don't want to enjoy it, rather than killing.

By episode 3, strategy becomes a requirement in many cases. However, with the amount of semi-useless CS (by that, I mean literally free stuff, Ress stones, 1 hour skill reset, and inventory bags.) given, you can spam these ress stones for quite some time. Big problems that may inhibit you from doing well is 3-1 Scorpion King, 3-4 Cobalt Captain, and 3-3 Chariot. By now, one should be able to start learning and anticipating moves for survival.

By episode 4, teamwork will become a great assets in your journey. The biggest problem you might face is 4-4 and 4-5 bosses, as their abilities can downright kill you if you don't pay attention. Jack Todd of 4-6 is semi-lethal, though not really. 4-7 Mud Golem is probably the worst of them all, being able to murder you with a single shot. Tarask is still a joke as usual.

Episode 5 is where hp/damage buffs start to kick in slightly to normal mobs. There's a few main concerns to be worried about: Royal Knights, Minibosses, and Mercenary Ninjas (the one that spins to attack you =P). Dark Elf excecutioner (or its lesser forms) begin a bit of nuisance for new players, as I don't expect them to dodge correctly. Teamwork strategy begins to go a bit harder, relying a lot on healing and scattering mobs when necessary. Endurance frames for enemies kick in harder than usual, making swipes necessary instead of a full blunt force. 3 top difficult bosses are the knight in 4-8 (I believe), 4-7 trolls, and Henry's Wooden Machine Thing...Tanks, the puppetmaster, and Zakan aren't that hard; they're just underdogs to be aware of. With the endu frames, the puppetmaster actually becomes a slight challenge.

The first half of Episode 6 is where new players will have quite a difficult time to do. First of all, rushing to kill enemies is not much of an option anymore, and solos become dramatically difficult, especially for a pure melee class (Sieg without wind skills). Dwarves will be a pain to kill, so kill the ones with ranged attacks first, while scattering the rest of the dwarves so they can't hurt you as much. Lotar becomes even more difficult than usual, Kseidon's still a joke, the enemies in 6-5 are still somewhat of a joke, and the big underdog of enemies is the cannon dwarves, which can severely damage you.

The other half of episode 6 is now a new player's nightmare. On one side, you have to dodge the mass amounts of traps placed, which shouldn't be hard. On the other half, you're going to die more from Krieg, Daru, and the Elders more than Dainn and Rigel. On the other half, Sikhan battle/defence machines have probably 40khp (didn't check), making killing them VERY long and difficult as they sap away your hp. Teamwork is heavily based for survival, usually requiring an eir, or a distraction for hp healings. It doesn't seem possible to survive for much longer without any help. I suspect you probably have around 2-3 pieces of IV equipment, so hope it helps a lot.

Episode 7, I can't comment since I hadn't went trough it with my pure physical non-rb sieg yet...

From a myth place, I see barely any difference in changing any form of playstyle, rather to kill with the same push/air/kill (airing being "if" it happens). Pushing becomes fairly ineffective against many enemies, and using lures are starting to become popular once again. This is what I probably expect when my Sieg gets to that point.

Overall, what I believe ALL-M is trying to do with new players is to help them progress with actual skills and strategy to play the game. Even if that means failing the stage.

Players joined in IJJI perspective (as best as possible)

Those who are extremely used to grinding and having no challenge
They are practically used to doing and killing things so fast that they didn't know that they were grinding half the time. When the update comes along, they believe that grinding is the only way to satisfaction. They would not care at all about storylines or really "being" in that moment, rather to get the best of the best no matter what it takes.

They usually go by the following:
-HP of everything is too high
-Damages from enemies are crazy
-Bonus is impossible to do (extremely difficult in some cases)
-New players expected to go to bonus/legend will fail epically (They don't think that it is optional)
-They believe that their OP'ed equipment that can 1-hit kill things is now fairly useless, and those who don't have it become even more useless.

Those whom are used to challenges
Simply put, they see this as an opportunity to get better at anything. With the lackluster of the game turned into a grindfest with luck, anything seems better than this crap (I'm imagining mostly those who quitted because of it). Now with difficulty at its craziest, they now have more chances to redeem themselves in the art of hardcore gaming. Even M5 becomes so dangerous, it's fun. There's probably more than that, but yea...

Players before IJJI
The main thing that I see here is "Pfft, at least it's not hell like it is in OB."

Some variations occur as, "Well, now it feels like 12FT all over again."

and so on and so on...


Here's my perspective since I started playing in the last month of 12FT:

First off the bat, the playability for most players should expect to be fair. It's not insanely difficult being on the linear path to myth. However, legend becomes a slight issue with the amount of hp it has. However, I don't mind that much hp at all. The reason behind it is that during the time IJJI had it until now, everyone was losing the ability to strategize. It revived back when M1/2 had unflinchible mobs. The strategy was mainly tanking, but it becomes less of that dramatically when flinchable/comboable mobs were introduced. Myth eventually became a grindfest with little "good" rewards. I still believe it is.

Bonus, however, is when my mood changed a bit. If you're talking hundreds of thousands of hp to drain (over 1 mil just for 3-3B boss), it becomes so tedious that it "feels" impossible for half the Lunians who used to do it under 501str. I'd see that as a small change (specifically for B2/3 more than it is B1) in which the hp of enemies drop down to (not from) 70-50%. This should have like 600-700k for the 3-3B boss, many enemies still killable with around 27khp, without taking probably an hour just to get a single box from that stage. I mean seriously, 220khp just to kill 1 enemy within 5 minutes, and most of the other enemies as 55khp? I don't think anyone under 501str can even manage to do it....and even if they were, they would run out of time from running and spamming, unless you are a party of artas with guild mp pots.

*Thumbs up with myth. Seriously, nothing much changed, rather than the overall endu frame thing that slightly interests me in strategy. M5...I'm not even at 5kstr, so I'm not going there losing ~100hp every few (I think) seconds...

Legend is average. Some enemies actually hurt you, at the same time, the hp of enemies are nearly identical to bonus. Very difficult (if not impossible) to solo under 501str after Legend Episode 4. I'd say to just nerf hp of it to what I stated in bonus. Damages are fine, because people need to know how to dodge and take hits, and sometimes be wise to have eirs in the group.

Overall, I believe this is the best patch ever made since before guild pots were around (and literally, I hate guild pots, but I can't stand to live without it for some of my characters, specifically for staging [primarily, arta, dacy {a fair bit}, and Ryan).

[insert pause here]

As for people flaming GMs, those people are as stupid as going Leroy Jenkins. They should be more so flaming ALL-M for it. GMs host and manage the game and its players, not give special rates and all that technical stuff. Though, some of the ijji staff still probably needs help for people actually sending a helpdesk ticket about fatal errors the right way (aka, sending both allmpatch.log and luniaclient.log, but mainly allmpatch.log) for them to actually look into it to fix.

(Now, it'd probably be helpful if "certain" English players were completely allowed to go to a test phase for ijji before it is released to the public, primarily discussing about the latest content and stuff that might have avoided this situation, but with a playerbase so low {less than 1-2k}, it probably won't happen)
 
08-30-2010   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaBoy740
Honestly I love the recent patch. It reminds me so much of OBT, yes it is HARD that's what makes a game a good game. Yeah you definitely have to do parties for the history stages now, but I think Lunia is meant to be a party type game where you actually have to interact with other people.

Yes I think having to do every stage now is a little stupid since we have so many to do now, and I also think they should have left the hp alone on rocks and stuff (takes the whole party attacking to break rocks in coc4 now if you don't have hkd >_> )

But I think this patch was much needed. Noobs will no longer be able to play the higher stages if they don't learn how to play efficiently now. (No offense to anyone though!)

Yes I've done myth 5 lots of times on my Eir and we got our asses kicked plenty of times. Until we re-learn (for those of us from OB, since most of us got use to the easy lunia T_T ) we'll have lots of trouble doing stages. But once we do learn how to properly dodge and attack and heal again I think we'll enjoy it being a difficult game again instead of easy and getting bored of it in a week or 2.

Just my 2 cents though
To some extent I agree; M5 feels like M3 when we first got it, which is to say that it was hard for the first few weeks and then everyone got to know the attacks patterns/got enough pieces of the spirit set that they have hilariously silly high damage and don't need to learn anything, and started steamrolling through as usual.

However, some choices made in changing some stages seem... absurd. It's been mentioned earlier that the pillars that Daru makes in b3 is no longer breakable with hkds/skds. This, combined with probably like tripled or quadrupled hp makes it near impossible to complete a battle without a rock being dropped. In 3-2 its tolerable, as you fight in a corner and change areas when Daru uses it. But in 3-3 it's just plain crazy. In the test run I did, the Daru there put up at least 7 pillars before it finally died, making the fight with Dainn and the Dragon absolutely hellish and prompting me to switch over to ANGRY RAGING SMASH mode. At the end of it all I had used 9 resurrection stones, 8 endurance potions, and 2 endless potions, all of which I must blame on the pillars.

Admittedly, without the pillars, both Dainn and the dragon would be a cakewalk for me regardless of the hp boost they got, but this sort of thing doesn't promote more tactical play from players, it promotes switching to a more powerful class (loltia) and getting more powerful equipment. Granted, both of this is beneficial to allm's profit margins, but more probably, more new players will respond by avoiding the stage all together. Seeing how r4 stuff now drop like candy, I see very little reason for new players to run b3 when the only incentive to do so is now infinitely harder to achieve than say, an afternoon of farming at 7-3/4 and getting a full r4 set, accessories and all.

This aside, many new players will not have sufficient "chance to immobilize" to combo anything, and as such they -will- have to run around in circles, waiting for cd on dfist to finish etc etc etc. I'm not sure about everyone else here, but in OB, I didn't not learn to combo because it was an option, I learned it when there was an immense difficulty spike that I had to get past, and I could only do it reliably by comboing everything to hell and back (that and pvping Zyris is a rather inspiring ordeal). I don't think the newbies of today will ever experience that until the middle/later myths, seeing how the major difficulty spikes occur in legend and bonus, neither of which are along the path to level 70 and myth any more.

To that end, I must conclude that the newest patch genericized the game even further, made the endgame even more cash shop intensive (though that's probably fine for the most part), gave new players with potential more reason to quit, and was just in general a bad idea, at least across some major areas.
 
08-30-2010   #13 (permalink)
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i was about to come back, then i watch videos of myth5 being steamrolled
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08-30-2010   #14 (permalink)
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You can only steam role when you have a handful of people with enough flinch power to effectively push and like, 8k+ strength =/.. also a 85-100% cooldown ryan to perma freeze and an arien who can butt rape with LA.

as far as I saw, my 6k main stat guildies can effectively flinch/push/knock down m5 mobs most if not all the time. my 2.3k int ain't doing it for me :<

Also, a lot of Seres' attacks are so damned quick, more particularly his scythe/water wave attack. I'm usually dead before I see it coming, not to mention he reduces you to 0 HP by turning around... Behind him is relatively safe (just watch the explosion attacks that hit far from him), but it's hard to run when he slows you. To add more difficulty, he has a curse effect that drains you HP by 1k+ a second

As for the king kraken mini boss, I STILL can't figure out how to dodge the tidal wave attack where he spins around. Something really tells me that ALLM moved the game in a direction where using endurance/invincible framed skills is CRUCIAL for survival. That's fine and dandy in all, but the fact of the matter is that more nearly half the characters just HAVE NOT BEEN BALANCED. They need to quit fooling around and balance all the characters already. I honestly don't think it should take so long to raise some skill damages and throw endurance frames on stuff.
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08-30-2010   #15 (permalink)
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Oh yeah have you guys even read the forums? Grieverus - ijji Forums

Its amazing how these CSR infract me for defending GGftw ( With like what 3-5 posts or w.e ) and its amazing how the thread is still going, I still proven my point ggftw >> ijji-forums.
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08-30-2010   #16 (permalink)
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What's not cool is the Mythical Lion thingy in M1/ its range is ridiculous and I can't get the frikkin circles with it doing 3.7k damage to me x.x
 
08-30-2010   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d4rka2n
Oh yeah have you guys even read the forums? Grieverus - ijji Forums

Its amazing how these CSR infract me for defending GGftw ( With like what 3-5 posts or w.e ) and its amazing how the thread is still going, I still proven my point ggftw >> ijji-forums.
You should stop. getting trolled bad lolz
 
08-30-2010   #18 (permalink)
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^ I'm trolling them cuz they know i'm right and their wrong, Grieverus posted here to ask US GGFTW COMMUNITY about opinions for the fatal errors / lag / animation glitches we received from the patch, this girl aka "Vicki " forum name : "DemonicDawn" comes outta nowhere copies grieverus's post and quoted it in a new thread in ijji forums, She trashed talked members about US, and wanted to hear OPINIONS about what grieverus said, What did grieverus said again?

I wouldn't dare post this on Ijji forums since the competency level is substantially higher here. In the several years I've been playing Lunia, I've never seen such a divide over a single patch. - Quoted from Grieverus

And he was so right, Ijji forums lacked MATURITY. Look at the posts from the thread itself, MOST of the popular Ijji posters there weren't even on topic rofl. Ironic much? I just find it funny how they think giving me infractions for defending a community ( GGFTW ) that has so much high level of maturity is gonna solve everything just cuz they think I was trolled, Guess not, GGFTW will forever still dominate ijji in every way possible.

Edited : Look at glad's posts as well, Even he agrees with Us ( Grieverus Me + most GGFTW members Ofcourse. )
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Last edited by d4rka2n; 08-30-2010 at 09:34 PM.
 
08-30-2010   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d4rka2n
Oh yeah have you guys even read the forums? Grieverus - ijji Forums

Its amazing how these CSR infract me for defending GGftw ( With like what 3-5 posts or w.e ) and its amazing how the thread is still going, I still proven my point ggftw >> ijji-forums.
Just dont feed them anything, you know once they gotten a taste, they come back for more and s*** on you when they're done
 
08-30-2010   #20 (permalink)
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Yea...

1/2 of the maturity went away when people quitted before this forumer (gary123/krystal kung/suzy bae) went and took the other half of the maturity away...

now about 1/20 are actually mature, and not QQ-ing, and actually taking discussions seriously....I think...probably more or less...


Now er...back to discussions. So, have anyone here actually completed any B3 without wasting res stones, endu pots, or endless pots? Or is it so unusually difficult that you'd rather do something else instead of those stages? As for me...well, I can't even get pass 3-1 with these cobalt chariots...

*Of course, I didn't even want to read topics that deal heavily with flaming, unless I'm bored and need moar drama, but nah. I had a bad day today at school -.-
 

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LinkBack to this Thread: http://ggftw.com/forum/lunia-general-chat/81380-reactions-most-recent-patch.html
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Grieverus - Page 9 - ijji Forums This thread Refback 08-31-2010 02:39 AM
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