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06-27-2009   #61 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiona
The main issue I have with the removal of voke... well, I already stated that. Asuka in a stage is basically just another character that's just there for killing crap. It's a sign of what Lunia has become now that the party dynamic is really just smashing stuff to oblivion. The days of strategic ice walls, moon barriers, and provokes are gone. Heck, even the days of HEALING are gone for some people who are either good enough to never really need healing, or who have certain cash shop potions.

(and the days of buffing and de-buffing never existed in the first place, while the days of summoning are apocryphal)
I believe they said to themselves....
Provoke hmmm they can't attack anyone else why bother....
IceWall hmmm they only attack wall and not the players why bother...
MoonBarrier hmmm they eat all projectiles and monsters aggro them too why bother.....

I never saw strategic provokes ever in this game.
All I've seen is chain vokes in trapped spots.
Icewalls to get aggro off and chain them aswell.
What is the whole point if the mobs not attacking the players in the first place right?
Well that's the reason you have this now.
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06-28-2009   #62 (permalink)
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I would like it if the stages were more creative to where each class has its own uses, but then developers would have the problem of making the game fair for all characters.

For example, let's say there was a stage where the mobs were as numerous as in Le Lua but also as large and powerful as in myth1 before Ryan. Of course in that situation, it would be the best if the Sieg voked while the eir healed and the rest did the damage, but what would the party do if they didn't have a Sieg to lure the mobs or an Eir to heal the lure? Should a stage become impossible without a Sieg and an Eir, where as a Yuki could easily be replaced by any other char for dmg, such as a Ryan, Arien, Kali, or even Dacy? That's the problem.

How can you design a stage where each class can make use of its own special powers, but at the same time not make a single certain character essential to the point where the game is impassable without that char? The only two solutions I can imagine are alternate routes with different puzzles, or a stage with more generalized puzzles. However, the former separates party members, essentially defeating the purpose of a party for a better single player experience, and the latter limits creativity in stage design, since character specific skills such as provocation would have little use.
 
06-28-2009   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xTrueFaithx
Well think about it dainns DDB shoots and its easy to avoid and a free shot on them
if they were to dodge that new skill then again a free shot? Tho its probably likeable to not dodge since its hit on contact.
I doubt the Dainn would use it when the person is at the edge of their range. Probably when they have the person cornered or trapped with Ice Arrow, slowed with Fury, locked in place with FDH/Fury/OoF/Rain of Fire or frozen with DDB. The cast time is pretty fast... but would the skill be uncancelable, as in the dragons appear no matter what? A good PvP Sieg could probably voke/blow the Dainn before the dragons appeared...
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06-28-2009   #64 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladiat
o_o Those skills look pretty epic. Looking at how these skills are going to be turning out, Eir's probably going to get some epic dodge skill, some redundant epic looking JoG, or more beads! If it's more moon pieces I'm going to laugh unless it kills me like 1/2 hp (Lol sleepbind v2
JoG again, more dumb wings too

Edit: Forgot the link

http://www.luniasquare.net/forum/ind...showtopic=1179
 
06-28-2009   #65 (permalink)
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Lol, what the heck. It would be cool if it had more effects, like... I dunno, light pillars summoning or something.

From what it looks like, it seems like it just cures status effects and maybe heals to max or something like that... maybe. Or maybe that little star does damage or something.
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06-29-2009   #66 (permalink)
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IMO, her lvl85 skills only heals/revives/cures all status.. and only that ;_;

IDK what the orb of light surrounding her though .-.
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06-29-2009   #67 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroKunoichi
I believe they said to themselves....
Provoke hmmm they can't attack anyone else why bother....
IceWall hmmm they only attack wall and not the players why bother...
MoonBarrier hmmm they eat all projectiles and monsters aggro them too why bother.....

I never saw strategic provokes ever in this game.
All I've seen is chain vokes in trapped spots.
You should get out and play the game more, then. Or at least play something besides Cobolt (do people actually use trapped spots besides Adaman these days? ...or almost ever, besides Adamans, really). A sieg in my guild/party solo-used Provoke against Nergal without any trapping spots (I don't believe there are any there or in most places in this game besides Cobolt, anyways) in Cave of Chaos to good effect just this last weekend. And back when I farmed 6-10 with my guild (both legend and history), provoke made fighting Elders go much more smoothly, no traps involved.

On several occassions, when I was playing my healer and got surrounded and cornered by monsters, a Sieg used provoke to get them off me and saved my (in-game) life.

Quote:
What is the whole point if the mobs not attacking the players in the first place right?
Well that's the reason you have this now.
Actually, technically, the reason we have this now is simply because everything dies so fast that no one needs provoke, ice wall, or moon barrier. Those 3 skills haven't actually been nerfed and have been the same as always for like, years, now. When you get to the situations where things actually DON'T die fast (such as say, Nergal or... ugh, Citadel. Or Siren despite that raid being a dinosaur by now for some strange reason), provoke, icewall, and moon barrier work just as good as they always have (which is very good, indeed). My main vexation with the removal of Provoke from Asuka is that it shows that ALLM isn't even trying to create a character ever now that can do something besides just DPS. (well, some have some secondary healing powers like Krieg or Kali. Kali seems like a rather failed attempt at a character with secondary nonDPS roles, though, especially with the advent of gigantic mana potions). This isn't a case of ALLM hating provoke (which they haven't nerfed since its inception). This is a case of ALLM just plain on giving up on this character having any role besides killing stuff in a party (and thus, isntead of reducing that character's kill ability or whatever else to balance things out, just takes provoke away, instead).
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Last edited by Fiona; 06-29-2009 at 07:27 AM.
 
06-29-2009   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mote
Most un-epic final skill evar o_o
 
06-29-2009   #69 (permalink)
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That is a fail. I shouldn't even bother getting to 80/85 now.
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06-29-2009   #70 (permalink)
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Yea, a level 80 RB skill that does nothing but heal is pretty useless. Eir can already provide more than enough healing and fake ressing with the heal skills she already has once she RB's and gets RB beads. In fact, she's overkill for healing in several places, now (depending on skill of the player, of course). A krieg's not-as-good-but-good-enough healing gets the job done these days in many places, and Krieg can actually slaughter things real fast, which Eir usually has trouble doing (besides JoG). Giving Eir ANOTHER heal skill doesn't help improve her at all in most cases, I think. Most deaths these days come from one hit kills and pressing the A button too fast, too, and improved healing power probably isn't going to help with that much. Sure, this skill cures status ailments, but since when were those ever a problem anywhere? (and if they are, I suggest you look into buying some cheap antidote and purification potions from the potion merchant. They have a cooldown of like 5 seconds and work instantly...)

Only real way this skill could be marginally useful at all IMHO is if it's actually an RB sunlight with a cooldown of 15 seconds that has as much range as emergency heal. Then it might actually save some lives that an Eir wouldn't previously be able to save with her huge array of heal spells already. Of course, that would be kinda silly in and of itself.

I can't even imagine it changing up the builds that much. If the cooldown is low, you could possibly forego your other heals with one skill point into this (if you somehow made it to level 80 or are willing to spend on skill resets), but compared to everyone else (including Krieg...), the remaining skills to put skill points into that comprise Eir's offensive repertoire leaves something to be desired.

I guess it'd be a decent enough... party-wide endless-healing potion that lasts 4 seconds. Although if the cooldown is high, that'll still be pretty worthless. And it does make me realize that a big problem with Eir now is that you can technically replace her with the cash shop (endless potions), which you generally can't do wtih DPS (cash shop dragon flutes do crap damage in Myth, IIRC)
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Last edited by Fiona; 06-29-2009 at 09:18 AM.
 
06-29-2009   #71 (permalink)
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^ What makes you think it only heals
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06-29-2009   #72 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentythee
^ What makes you think it only heals
That was the repeated speculation and I suppose everyone expects it to be that now.
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06-29-2009   #73 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentythee
^ What makes you think it only heals
Oh, oops. I read everyone else's speculations and thought they were stating it as fact. Re-reading what they said, it appears they were all just speculating about everything.

If the skill does (good) damage, then it'd actually be pretty useful. It'd be more reilable than the other JoGs for clearing out mobs since instead of a bunch of shooting stars, it shoots out rings that are guaranteed to blow up everything around Eir, and the first ring comes out rather fast. If these rings do good damage, then Eir will basically be a walking nuke.

...alas, those scarecrows in that video don't appear to be very nuked to me. I'm pretty sure it's just a heal. THe range appears to be pretty darn huge though, and the initial speed it comes out seems decent enough. Like I said in my post, I believe the thing that will decide if this skill is just a novelty or if it'll be an excellent "endless heal potion in party form" will be the cooldown (although again, Eir's healing ability right now is already overheal in most cases these days)
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Last edited by Fiona; 06-29-2009 at 10:20 AM.
 
06-29-2009   #74 (permalink)
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It better revive every dead person and give them all their lives back. <_<
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06-29-2009   #75 (permalink)
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There was a longer vid posted in the Eir section. The cooldown of this skill based on the cooldown of the icon appears to be around 150-160 seconds. The little orb thingy continues to float in circles around Eir for a long time (at least 20 seconds) after the skill is cast. No one knows what it does, but it's likely some form of healing (it doesn't damage the scarecrows, either). So I guess Eir summons a healing minion of sorts? ...cute, but again, the practical utility of this skill is questionable (especially with that long cooldown) when Eir can already fully replenish lots of people with a 12 second cooldown skill (RB beads). The long cooldown means you might be tempted to save it for emergencies, but if you have THAT many emergencies that e-heal and sunlight aren't taking care of things, you probably should just go find another party that doesn't die so often Oo (or team your Eir up with a Krieg)
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Last edited by Fiona; 06-29-2009 at 12:30 PM.
 
06-29-2009   #76 (permalink)
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I'm hoping this JoG at least ressurects all party members and give invincibility status to all party members for a decent amount of time, otherwise this skill doesn't seem worth it...
 

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