Lucian AMA Summary!
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Lucian AMA Summary!
Surrender at 20: Lucian AMA Summary!
Greetings and salutations, Surrenderites, Flan Boys, and Odobenidae-hards! Earlier today, several of Riot developers teamed up to host an Ask Me Anything on anyting and everything Lucian!
Continue reading for a summary of the questions and answers so you don't have to comb through the reddit thread!
The following Rioters participated in this AMA:
- Riot Runaan
Lucian't find another AMA summary as good as this one! Ho ho! I have got the Threshest puns around!
Now, without further ado...!
[ What gave the inspiration to Lucian's and Senna's backstory and lore? ]
[ Lucian has special taunts towards Hecarim and Mordekaiser as well as Thresh. Has he had a run-in with the first two before, or is he simply learned about his foes? ]
The inspiration for Lucian and Senna's story was actually pretty spur of the moment. Lucian and Thresh were actually developed around the same time (late last year) during the time we were focusing heavily on The Shadow Isles. We came up with the connection between them pretty organically - someone threw out the idea in a meeting. "Wouldn't it be crazy if Thresh had the soul of Lucian's wife in his lantern?" Everything else, all of the details, sprung up from there. As for Lucian's fellow hunters of evil, we're not ready to delve too deeply into the history of his weapons just yet - there's a lot of potential story there, and I wouldn't want to spoil anything. For his release as a champion, we wanted to focus on the emotional core and conflict of his relationship with Senna and Thresh. - RiotRunaan
Lucian's hatred of the Shadow Isles is centered on Thresh, but his mission to purge the undead definitely doesn't stop there. He's definitely encountered other denizens of the Shadow Isles along the way - thus the custom taunts. - RiotRunaan[ Do you flesh out the stories more than just the lore that is revealed to the players? Is there a more intricate story about how Thresh actually tricked Senna and escaped from Lucian? ]
Yes, there's definitely more to the story than we've given away. We had a ton of discussion on how Thresh manipulated Senna and managed to capture her, but the things we talked about couldn't be told in a way we thought would be satisfying or impactful to players. We chose to focus on the core of the characters involved and leave some revelations and story for the future. - RiotRunaan[ This is mostly for Runaan/the other lore folks, just how "trapped" is Senna within Tresh's lantern? Is she stuck forever or is there a possibility of her breaking out and becoming a "banshee queen" kinda champion? :P
Also, is Thresh the Ruined King of the Shadow Isles? His face and a womanly face can be seen on the mini-map - is this Senna? Is Thresh possibly the male-relic-ghost (from when he was human) and Senna (the more remorseful one) the female ghost? SO MANY POSSIBILITIES ;-;
Lore nerds! Yay! ]
HEY THERE MR. GLYCEROLL [ What's the difference between The Purifier and The Night Hunter, both thematically and lore-wise? Vayne and Lucian's jobs seem extremely similar to me.
Senna's pretty dang trapped for the moment. There's nothing to say that she couldn't be set loose - Thresh's goal in taking her to the Shadow Isles was essentially to set her free there, where her powerful soul would be transformed into some kind of monstrosity. However, he hasn't let her go... is he keeping her trapped as a tool to torment Lucian, or is there a deeper motivation behind his keeping her locked away? Food for thought!
Second few questions: no, Thresh is not the Ruined King of the Shadow Isles. Interesting observation on the TT minimap - take whatever you'd like from that detail. : ) - RiotRunaan
Is hunting the supernatural a common occupation in Demacia? ]
You're right, they are very similar on a base thematic level ("hunters of evil"), but they're essentially two sides of the coin - think of it in terms of darkness and light. Lucian and Senna hunted evil with its natural opposite, righteous magic intended to destroy corruption. They were also protectors; their motivation hinged on saving innocents in need as much as it did purging corruption. They were beloved heroes. Vayne, on the other hand, is more of the Batman of Runeterra - she's hell-bent on destroying the supernatural, but she is not afraid of using underhanded methods and turning the darkness against itself. Her methods are not always smiled upon by greater society.[ So, just to clarify because the Batman analogy made me slightly confused.... Vayne is more of an anti-hero sometimes adored, sometimes villified (like Deadstroke), when Lucian is more of a traditional hero (like Superman)? ]
Personally, the similarities between them alongside the subtle differences are a really interesting opportunity for future interaction. They wouldn't get along, but they'd share incredibly similar goals - perhaps they'll end up reluctantly fighting a common threat one day. Who knows? - RiotRunaan
Yes, that's roughly it (though Lucian's in a place where he's "fallen" in a way after the death of his wife - he's lost sight of the righteousness of his mission in favor of obsessive revenge against the undead of the Shadow Isles). - RiotRunaan[ Might we see Lucian save his wife at some point in the near future? ]
Maybe, maybe not - that's one of the core hooks to his story, it'd be a shame to spoil everything, wouldn't it? - RiotRunaan [ What powers do the guns that Lucian uses have? ]
His guns essentially fire purifying light magic. They also cannot be fired by just anyone - you have to have certain qualities to be able to fire them. - RiotRunaan[ Why did thresh have interest in Senna's soul but not Lucian? or did he take her life just to torment Lucian for the day he eventually takes his soul? ]
Thresh hunts the strongest souls in Runeterra and brings them back to the Shadow Isles to make them into undead monstrosities. Senna and Lucian's souls are some of the most powerful he's ever encountered. He managed to trap Senna, but not Lucian - Thresh is keeping Senna's soul in his lantern to torment Lucian and lure him into the Shadow Isles' snare.[ From where in Runeterra is Lucian? ]
(Or is he? Thresh may hold a deeper motivation for keeping Senna around. Hmmm!) - RiotRunaan
He's from Demacia! - RiotRunaan Gameplay/Mechanics
[ I've noticed that when Lucian's passive is used, if he begins moving, he continues the animation by shooting to his side/over his shoulder and I absolutely adore it. How difficult was this to implement and can we expect such smooth animations for future abilities? ]
Hey, as Lucian's animator, I can answer. That passive animation uses something called parametric blending, which allows us to blend between different animations based on how he turns. We've used it in the past on Thresh (his long chain) and on Zac (Stretching Strike). We're using it more going forward and even on Lucian, it's used on his W and his Ult in addition to the passive. - nickstravaganza[ I've always found it fascinating that Draven will extend his arm to catch the axe. Is this related technology? ]
Kinda. I think that Draven animation is just the upper body having its own separated animation, which is also what happens with Lucian, but on top of that we add the parametric blend that modifies where his upper body is turned. - nickstravaganza[ As someone just about to enter college to study animation, I really need to add to this. What program do you mainly use to animate/model/rig your characters? Is there just about 1 person for every job, or are there employees that do more than just animate. I.E. Rigger/Animator. How long does it take to create every animation for the character. How many of you animate one character? Also I remember Cassiopeia's spotlight was how she was animated using Autodesk Maya. Are there any plans to do another one of these? ]
We use Maya for all the animation, while using a proprietary program to set up the characters and control things like blends between animations and how often idles play (along with more complex things). At Riot, we're pretty specialized. The animators animate and the riggers rig. Many of us have other talents beyond that, but we focus on the one discipline at work. We usually have at least two animators on a champ, but sometimes the timing works out that there's only one. We shift around based on the needs of the character. How long it takes per anim depends greatly on the anim itself. A simple channel can be a few hours, while an elaborate dance or something can take several days or go through multiple iterations.[ Are we going to see this implemented on Quinn, since her passive mechanically takes longer to proc than a regular auto attack? I think it almost goes hand-in-hand with the glitch that everyone has been complaining about regarding auto attacks. ]
Good luck with your studies! - nickstravaganza
Well It figures prominently into Lucian's passive because the second shot has to be able to go off while running and it's important for the visual to line up. It's a visual thing since mechanically, the second shot would happen regardless.
As for Quinn, can you describe the glitch you're seeing? This animation technique would only really apply if she were to move while firing, which is a separate design consideration. - nickstravaganza[ While it looks awesome and in theory seems a great ability, The Culling has very lacking damage and uses outside of attempting to finish off a target from long range or simply trying to scare off an enemy while backing away. Are any changes planned to this ability? It doesn't seem to serve a purpose in teamfights nor skirmishes as it is difficult to hit and the ultimate isn't worth using instead of basic attacks. Are you comfortable with the ability being used only as poke, disengage and sniping? The very short cooldown seems to promote using it outside of larger battles, too. ]
I think a lot of the power of the Culling is tucked away in the simple fact that you can move + cast Relentless Pursuit while using it. You're totally right that the Low Cooldown is to incentivize using it whenever you feel the need without having to feel like you've wasted it - I can see us (do not misinterpret - VERY SLIGHTLY) upping the AD ratio on it, but the situations you're outlining are the situations the ability is designed to handle. Doing DPS in a fight when a bruiser decides to jump you? Hit Ardent Blaze + The Culling on them and move backward and enjoy repositioning while dealing damage.[ Why isn't his Q a skill shot? Any particular reason as to why it is the way it is right now? ]
Balance on this spell due to a number of factors has always been on a knife-edge - a simple ratio increase can take it into 'Lucian just uses his short cooldown Culling and everything dies' or 'Lightshow tickle-fight'. If it's more the latter, as always, we'll make changes if he needs it. Just not convinced he needs it at the moment. - Scarizard
There were really two reasons driving this - one was that Lucian earlier on was missing a reliable damage ability which playtests showed that he really needed. We also felt that he needed a 'trickshot' type ability, or something that had him lining up shots or feeling clever about using well situationally.
This led to the Double Up + Ricochet style ability we have - in lane and in skirmishes, it allows Lucian to line up some nice shots (I've personally gotten kills -through- an enemy champion to their allied support or jungler a few times), but in the latergame you can still just put your mouse on them and fire away for the damages.
Once we really embraced it as 'Lucian uses a target to aim the laser, then fires it no matter what' we also found interesting interactions (for instance, Vayne can tumble away from it, quicker movement speeds can run away from it) that actually made it feel much cooler from a playing against perspective. - Scarizard
As the other post, but we wanted to make something that required aim and skill, but wasn't the same as other skillshots. Lucian instead must watch the position of enemies to get extended range and AOE. This differentiates him from someone like Ezreal. - Morello [ What was the decision-making behind making 2 of his abilities (Q and R) dodgeable by a simple dash? And what did you do to counteract this issue? Is he just simply not a champion you pick before they pick ADC because he is easily countered? Does that make him OP against ADCs without dashes? ]
Basically, he has counter-play and Lucian needs to manage that. If you shoot a Q and burn a 20-second cooldown dash, then gj [ He just doesn't flow very well as a result. In comparison to someone like Vayne who has a very fluent skill set and as a result is able to maximize her efficiency 100%.
He needs to be precise and rely on his team to set up more favorable scenarios to maximize his effectiveness. This is generally a direction I'd like to see more in ADC's and less one-man-army designs - Morello
I'm just curious because other ad carries do not have the magnitude of counter play to their kits as Lucian has with his. I know you wanted Lucian to have counter play to his abilities, but you have to realize that this makes him a weaker champion than the other ad carries by far.
It's just not very fun when enemies can almost completely invalidate your skill set by simply moving to the side.
Basically, you made him easy to counter, but you didn't give him anything special to compensate for that fact. ]
To be fair, we got this feedback about Caitlyn when she launched. I'm not convinced people have solved Lucian yet (Draven was similar too).[ Also, why did you guys go with so much mobility with W and E instead of some CC? ]
I'd rather make it so more counterplay exists than less. We haven't always done a good job of this, but no excuse to not do better Additionally, we think there's a bit of wonkiness in his AA frame that contributes to this flow disruption. - Morello
His Q and R require him to be in a strong position, so we gave him tools to manage that. His weakness/downside to pay for that is no control - a good weakness for Marksmen. - Morello [ How does Lucian's ultimate interact with Lulu's Help, Pix!, and how does his passive interact with the aforementioned ability? ]
As Lulu's Pix buff is a modifier to your basic attack, it would not have any interaction with The Culling (As the Culling is a spell) - but would double-shoot pixbolts with Lightslinger, as it's two basic attacks. - Scarizard[ After seeing all the feedback about his ultimate, are there any plans for possible change? ]
Not fundamentally, no. The feedback is "this is hard to use optimally," in which I say "good!" This means it has play/counter-play - a skill that players can improve.[ What kind of team comps do you see Lucian fitting in? ]
Balance changes can always occur, of course, but I really think the answer is cooldown. Having it be unreliable but more frequent is a good way to even it out. - Morello
We generally have seen him work really well in kite/disengage teams, or pick-based compositions. Things like Elise, Ahri, Thresh (funnily enough) - anyone that makes the opponent stop moving, Lucian can just turn on the Giga-Culling-Prismatic-Gatling-Death-Attack and blow through them with ease.[ Read as, "Vayne ... cleaned house." ]
Have to say i'm also hopeful of his viability in a double-AD composition that we've seen worldwide. Lucian Mid is quite good, due to wave clear, escapability and the aforementioned burst-damage. Played some tests internally with Lucian Mid and a Vayne Bot and between the two of us we cleaned house. - Scarizard
I actually ended the game with ~20 kills and Vayne only had 13 #ggwp
(I think the Double AD comp would work with Caitlyn or Tristana bot as well - anyone with late-game scaling while Lucian builds AD/CDR and basically jayces people throughout the early and midgame) - Scarizard[ Any reason why Lucian's ult doesn't add on-hit effects when that's such a big part of his Lightslinger passive? I think it'd be a buff to put him in a very decent position. ]
Pretty much echoing what people have said before, we didn't want to apply on-hits unless there was a strong reason to do so. We've had periods of Lucian's balance where his ult is 80% of the damage he deals to a person he kills and as such was kind of insane - Imagine getting hit with Frozen Fist or other types of onhits at the same time D: ![ Will you buff lucian next patch? ]
It just came down to a judgement call on our parts - the Culling is kind of a numbers-intensive ability when it comes to balance - adding On-hits into that equation lowers the amount of strength the ability itself is allowed to have due to needing to balance around the 'best-cast (Ex. if Bork+Shiv+Iceborn Gauntlet+SOTEL Culling is insane, Culling without these items needs to be at 20% Capacity just because he -could- build them). - Scarizard
Likely not. If we need to buff him we will, but waiting and not overreacting to first-impression feedback and letting people get accustomed to the champion/letting people explore different builds generally yields better results.[ Do you guys at riot feel like you may have dumbed down his ult a little too much? In anything past 30minutes I don't even use it! Normal attacks seem to do more damage.. Unless I'm running away I suppose :P ]
Personally, none of us are convinced that he's weak, and data is trending to suggest it either. Daniel Klein and i already prepared Buffs in the event that he's weak, or nerfs in the event that he's OP and can change him if he requires either. - Scarizard
I think it all comes down to your build - Varus and Miss Fortune are two champions with really powerful AD Ratios, but these will tend to fall-off if your build doesn't support ability usage and instead favors sustained basic attack damage. Besides, doing damage while kiting or backing off as an AD carry isn't something i would turn down! - Scarizard[ Hi Scarizard thanks to you and all the other Rioters for your hard and consistent work.
I just want to know, why did you decide to go the set direction route with Lucian's Ultimate ''The Culling''? What where its, if any, previous incarnations, and how did you envision its usage? A few of us see it as a peeler ult in team fights for spread damage or to whittle away troublesome tanks. ]
That's basically the reason for it existing, tbh - to give him a movement-agnostic way of dealing with diving champions and maintaining his 'slippery' feel. The Culling has basically been on the kit since Day 1 - but it was initially tuned as a 'blow this guy up and do every bit of damage' spell. The base Damage/Ratio are still very high, but we found that with that model Lucian's Ult took up almost all of the power budget of the champion, such that his Q/W/E/P felt really useless, but then the Culling would just instagib people out of nowhere. We decided to make the Culling still a good portion of his kill/damage potential, but inject more agency into his other spells. - Scarizard[ As a developer of Lucian, what do you think makes him a better pick than the other AD carries? ]
Lucian's balance is a thing line between Graves and Ezreal. We want him to be slippery and deal a lot of burst/spell damage, but at the cost of range and durability. Development
I answered this previously so you can find it the answer more in-depth above, but generally anyone looking to take a fight quickly or take down CC'd targets can't go wrong with Lucian as a carry. - Scarizard
[ How did you get to work with The Crystal Method for the theme? ]
[ I don't really have a question, I just wanna say that Lucian has the best login music since Diana! Good job to the guy who made it. It's totally awesome! ]
A bunch of us are fans of their work. We invited them over to Riot HQ to talk about champs, and they were really into Lucian. We thought their sound was a great fit for him too. From there, after a bunch of sessions at Riot and then work at their studio with Praeco, we got them into the mindset of Lucian and his story. - Verdugren
appreciate it! It was a collaboration between The Crystal Method and our team led by Praeco. - Verdugren[ What was it like working with Daniel 'Zenon' Klein on the champion, someone who seems pretty insane in all of my personal dealings with him? ]
The day Daniel started, i thought to myself 'I wonder if i'll tear my hair out working with him.' Many months later and after our first project - i can safely say i'm still asking myself the same question :P
Truthfully though, Daniel's personality i feel is what helped keep Lucian core through a lot of feedback and iteration. Champion Designers are usually the guardians of their Champion's feel, and he was no exception in this regard. Quite sure i'm speaking for the team when i say it's awesome working Daniel and would do so again. - Scarizard[ When designing his skillset, how did you go about it -- were you trying to fill a sort of niche (more mobile Marksmen), or were you directly focusing on the design first, and then designing around that into something that makes sense? I ask because I know the philosophy of "making something to fill what we're missing" as much as I know the one of "design what makes thematic sense" -- or is it somewhere in between? ]
[ I have only 1, burning, related, and incredibly important question...
Lucian was a weird process - it actually broke a couple backs on the way because of lack of direction on this front.In the end, we did something in-between; the thematics called for something that felt pretty "action-packed" (using references of material like the Matrix or Equilibrium), but we wanted to explore a space that was both more auto-attack focused to fit the role of a Marksman.Additionally, we wanted to try something a bit different than missile-based skillshots to get there, which leads to skills like Lucian's Q and R being "aimed," but not shooting normal skillshots. -Morello
How can this be the second Dual pistol wielding champion and we STILL don't have a skill with a double line shot ala Zed's shadowed Q? Lucian is shooting to both sides on his login screen and splash but I'm still not able to fire a skill shot like that. T_T ]
We actually had a number of kits that featured strange double-skillshots. It's "cool" for sure, but it really doesn't do anything very useful and feels clunky. It'd be a better fit for a short range or melee character, who can use that positioning advantageously. - Morello [ Honestly I think it needs to show up on a marksman who's Dual wielding, in this case it's one of those "thematic" points that IronStylus is always chattering on about. Not having that Dual Wielder who can fire in multiple directions at the same time is one of those themes that League still lacks despite now having 2 characters that could have hit that mark. ]
Thematically we agree, but if the gameplay just doesn't work, I don't want that idea to torpedo a character (and in this case, it would have). - Morello [ Why was Thresh picked as Lucian's rival over other established villains (Elise, Mordekaiser, Dr Priggs, Cho'Gath etc)? ]
Originally, we wanted them to be released near each other, but some release complexities changed that. We thought the lantern hook was good too - it's easier to understand the relationship when a character already has "this thing holds souls." - Morello
To add to Morello's post, we also wanted a character who stood in contrast to the Shadow Isles specifically. As Thresh was in development, it was an ideal opportunity to bring the two together. - RiotRunaan [ First of all, congratulations on the animations and music on the login screen, it looks amazing and gave me the chills.
Question: do you guys plan on making any kind of videos about lore? I love what you are doing with the shadow isles, now with the adition of lucian it just got better. ]
Thanks so much for the feedback on the login! Our teams for music, art, and tech that worked on it have been so pumped to see the great reaction. We are always exploring new ways to tell stories about the champs and their world (Udyr comic, what we've done now with Lucian)- stay tuned for more! - Verdugren[ Who managed to get in contact with The Crystal Method? Were they your first choice for people to help you make his music? ]
A couple of us on the music team led by Praeco got in touch. We're fans of their music, we reached out and they were pumped to work with us. They loved Lucian from the start after our initial hangout, and we thought they were a perfect fit. - Verdugren [ What was the process for this champion's evolution (ie timeline through idea, art, gameplay, design phases) ? ]
We've been messing with this concept for awhile. We wanted something inspired by the cool gunplay and feel of something similar to the Matrix, which led the concept artist (Eoin) to draw Lucian. [ How did you get the idea for the Ultimate ''The Culling''? ]
The challenge was in getting the gameplay to feel that way too. Lucian couldn't just have two guns, he needed to prove that he knew kung fu. - Morello
Basically, it was inspired by letting him have his John Woo-style moment; run and gun to the extreme.
Originally, it let him move and attack at the same time, which is not only ultra-powerful, but also even harder to use than the current. We wanted to retain that thematic feel, but needed different mechanics. - Morello
Couple more details - thematically, we wanted a moment in which Lucian could "let loose." All of his other abilities are very focused, precise, and deliberate. In his ultimate, raw emotion breaks through his normally cool and collected personality. - RiotRunaan[ When designing a champion, does the idea originate from a character concept, or an in-game mechanic concept? Which was Lucian created from? ]
It can come from either, depending on the champion. Lucian was inspired first by the concept art. His gameplay went through many iterations, but he's always stayed quite close to the first image. - nickstravaganza[ Was there anything fun in the development of lucian? Like any awesome/funny bugs? ]
Nothing too gamebreaking, except when we implemented Ardent Blaze's MS proc, 'Blucian' was the build we were testing. While that build still lives (No longer truly blue, just an AD + CDR build) - Spirit of the Elder Lizard's True Damage (That was applied by the W spell itself) was proccing the Mark, allowing him to just get insane MS at long range without having to follow-up which was pretty OP D: - Scarizard[ His autoattack and ultimate particles are really unique -where did you get the inspiration for them? ]
Lucian is all about light. Originally his particles in development looked very prismatic with many more colors than their current state. At that point they were pretty noisy and treaded a little too close to Lux's particle design space so we ended up limiting the palette to a blue/yellow sceme that we feel still communicated the same thing, in a more unique and readable way. - RiotSilver[ Lucian is the first time we have seen a login screen with a replay button, was this harder to program adding an additional controlled to the login interface? We will see more interaction with login art in the future? (Could lead to some cool easter eggs) ]
We have some awesome tech/art wizards who weave the black magic that makes the login screen work... They definitely picked up their game for this one and are always looking to level up what we do with the login. - Verdugren[ So how many John Woo movies did you guys watch in the process of designing Lucian? ]
Mandatory John Woo viewings. Daily. - Scarizard[ Why is Moobeat so sexy? ]
We considered nerfing his sexiness, but decided against it, due to the added flavor and thematic [blah blah blah...] - Morello
“The world may never know...” - nickstravaganza
There’s a lot of lore detail that we decided not to go into for various reasons, but largely to leave most of his sexiness up to the player’s imagination. - RiotRunaan[ Hi! When your lore connects so well with another champion, in this case Thresh, do you on purpose leave things open that you can add onto, or do you plan ahead? Was the Lucian and Thresh relationship planned around when Thresh was being made? ]
Hey there! We definitely wanted to leave a lot open-ended between Lucian and Thresh. Usually, when we develop relationships between champions, we like to leave some elements of the story to be explored in the future. As I mentioned in another response, Lucian and Thresh were actually developed around the same time late last year - Lucian's gameplay just required a lot of iteration that led to his much later release date. - RiotRunaan [ Can you tell us the process of designing a champion please? What comes first (skill concepts or art)? ]
Champion development, especially early on is a very fluid process. Ideas can come from anywhere. Sometimes it can start from the art, sometimes from it's game design. Lucian in particular came from an initial concept painting and was designed and iterated on from there. - RiotSilver[ How many man hours went into building Lucien across art, design, and coding? ]
Probably like half a day. - Scarizard
a lot..... @_@ - RiotSilver
Tons. - RiotRunaan[ As a guy with a bit of OCD I hate you for not making his guns look the same. ]
Apologies! The fact that they're different is very important from a story perspective, though, and something we focused on quite heavily during art iteration. One of the weapons belonged to his wife, and one of them was his all along. It was a tough challenge to make sure the guns were similar enough to avoid the implication of a different power source or different gameplay between the two, but still preserve such an important aspect of his story. - RiotRunaan[ Thanks for the AMA! Do you guys put extra effort on the login screens based on feedback from login screens like Vi's? ]
We're always trying to push the limits with login screens. For Lucian's in particular, the idea came about at the same time we decided what his splash would be. Ultimately we try to showcase what makes each champion unique. For Vi it was all about her punk rock and combative style. For Lucian, we really wanted to focus on the idea of his dual wielding and his purifying light. This is why the only thing lighting the scene is the light emanating from his guns and each of the guns shoot separately. We will always be looking for ways to push login screens in the future in ways that are appropriate to the characteristics of future champions. We have a few cool ideas - RiotSilver[ In reading Lucian's lore, I found myself a little troubled by the obvious refridgerator-ing of Senna. Given the environment where we interact with our pastime, and the opportunity Riot really has to tell unique, powerful, and unconventional stories, Senna's treatment strikes me as a cop-out. Were there any internal discussions about whether or not to use the Damsel trope and whether it was appropriate here? With the set of obvious gender problems in the current champion pool, I feel that it may have been more satisfying to see Senna as the champion and Lucian tossed in the refrigerator. ]
Hey there, this is a really great observation. In writing Lucian's story (and being a woman myself), I struggled with this quite a bit. I admit that it does feel like a bit of a cop-out in the way it's been presented so far, but the conclusion I came to was that the story we're focusing on, at least for Lucian's champion release, is Lucian's. We did our best to hint at Senna's deeper character - for example, it's lightly touched upon that when they were together, she was the more no-nonsense and "tougher" of the two (with Lucian being the more light-hearted and humored). It was important to communicate, at least in a small sense, that she was more than just a cardboard cutout "damsel," even if we were going to present very limited information about her. There's also the mystery of how exactly Thresh managed to manipulate and trap her - this is something we left intentionally vague, as it's something we eventually want to reveal as very deep to Senna's character. The most I can say is that it was not at all a simple trap.[ Thanks for this.
We've left a lot open for further development on Senna's character, too - for example, I hope people speculate as to what her interaction with Thresh is like from within the lantern. Senna's a fighter; she's not going to take his torment easily.
tl;dr - I admit Senna's presentation in current lore is very limited. That said, we have discussed her very heavily and there is more to her than what's been presented thus far. I very much want to develop her further and use her in ways that aren't typical to the "damsel in distress" trope in the future. : ) - RiotRunaan
I do like that you plan on going into more depth as to the trap, etc., however, even if the particular character is more than a cardboard cutout, that doesn't stop the contribution to the broader use of the trope. The simple decision that it was Lucian's story that was being told is its own problem. Not many games tell stories the way that League does, and most other games have stories that are fixed in the way you encounter them. Assuming that Senna, or someone else related to the story becomes playable later, a larger piece of the story becomes visible and the story becomes more complex, but Lucian's remains firmly grounded in the damsel in distress model.
Certainly, Lucian's is not one of the most pernicious versions of the trope, but given the conversation taking place in the industry right now, the unapologetic damsel story sits uncomfortably with me; I cringed a little bit when the voiceover started on the log-in screen ("She was everything to me").
Of course, like I said, the fact that Senna's story can move forward from here is a good thing! However, I wonder about how it would play differently if we started with Senna's story, then found out how Lucian saw things. My feeling is that this would feel more subversive of the trope, while hearing Lucian's version first feels more like apologizing for using it after the trope has already been used. Then again, there is always the simple fact that a release schedule has to be maintained and Lucian was ready to go. ;p ]
Thanks for the reply - in all honesty, I absolutely cannot disagree with you. Our game's (currently) limited mediums for storytelling are something myself and my team struggle with on every champion's release. We're working on broader solutions, but in the mean time, we do what we can.[ Don't worry about rambling - happy to sit and read it.
Part of the trouble comes from the fact that champion releases are not inherently a storytelling platform. As a goal, they're intended to be comprehensive and digestible from a high level - there's little room for nuance (take, for example, the confusion that resulted from our presentation of Zac's backstory in his laboratory logs; we wanted to convey the detail and nuance of Zac's upbringing, but it led to skewed player expectations in terms of what Zac would actually be as a champion). The reliance on tropes to convey our stories is something we're aware of and trying to improve, but it's also often a necessity for conveying our champions' stories in the most understandable way possible. This doesn't excuse reliance on "woman in the refrigerator" for Lucian, of course (there are larger problems at play in this particular instance), but hopefully this illuminates some of the how and why of we get here. In a perfect world, we'd be able to present lots of information outside of Senna for Lucian's story (the history of the weapons, how he came to be "the Purifier," any of the information we've discussed internally), but the fact remained that we wanted to choose the most compelling and immediately emotional hook for the champion's release. Everything else, however much depth or subversion it adds to the story, must come later.
I realize all of this sounds very apologist, I certainly don't mean it that way. I don't necessarily think that "damsel in distress" is problematic as a rule, either, the problems arise from how such a story is presented (which I further admit we made a conscious decision to keep simplistic and trope-reliant here).
This is getting a bit rambly, sorry about that. I really do hope to explore more of Lucian and Senna in the future outside the constraints of a champion release. There's a lot beneath the surface, we just need to find the right medium in which to bring it all to light. - RiotRunaan
I think we agree about tropes not being a bad thing per se; tropes, like symbols, are a useful way to convey a lot of information in a small amount of space. Similarly, a champion release is a bit of a blessing and a curse on this front. Basically, you guys are stuck trying to convey a lot (see e.g., Zac) in a very small amount of space, which prohibits some amount of nuance.
However, you get a lot more room to tell different sides of a story! Senna is probably going to be a prime example of this (if I'm reading your wink-wink/nudge-nudge correctly). So, there is that.
Though I do wonder, given the limitations on a champion release, if using a particularly pernicious trope blend (woman in the refrigerator) at all was a bad idea - even when there are plans to expand upon it later. Basically, I don't envy your job on this one at all. The only thought I have is that I wish that, like a bug or iteration issue, a lore and presentation related concern was enough to justify shelving a champion until a less troubling presentation was possible. ]
Even telling different sides of a story can sometimes be a bit difficult - for example, one idea for Lucian's teaser was actually a letter written in Senna's voice, but we scrapped it simply because telling a story from an "NPC's" perspective on a champion's release in such a way ran the risk of setting the incorrect player expectation as well (that said, outside voices for teaser/promotional material isn't out of the question, it's just something that didn't work out in this situation). It's not something we outright ignored, it's just something we haven't solved yet.
Whether or not it was a bad idea to use the trope at all, I'm not certain - players certainly seemed to react well to the core hook of the story, in the very least. If my goal was to encourage attachment to Lucian as a character, I hope I've succeeded in that right. It's a complicated question, honestly, and something Riot is continuing to explore and work through.
Thanks for the insight and calling me out on this - it's something I'm glad for the opportunity to comment on, as it was a fairly important part of Lucian's development (at least for me)! - RiotRunaan[ What was the main inspiration behind Lucian's looks and motions? ]
He went through a lot of changes early on, but the initial inspiration for his motion was, as many have noted, Equilibrium and the Matrix. I explored some early gun kata-esque moves, but ultimately we match the animations to the kit. - nickstravaganza[ Why is Lucian's laugh so light and quite? Is this to make him seem really tough or is it to show that he doesn't speak much because he is too cool and only handles business? I ask this because a lot of other champions have a laugh that is loud,quick and are spam able and Lucian's is slow and broken up more like grunts of toughness. ]
We kept his laugh small and subtle because he's not particularly jovial, but we definitely realize that players enjoy spamming certain emotes. - nickstravaganza [ Lucian's gate is very cool in early levels with no or basic boots, however i have notice that when you buy faster boots his strides look very exaggerated. Is this a flaw or bug or is there something more in his gate that gives a sense of his character away? ]
We try to differentiate between runs at different speeds. Thanks for the feedback though, I've been considering some small adjustments. - nickstravaganza[ This is Lucian splash art http://i.imgur.com/iPKTg66.jpg
What is this symbol ?
Why the original concept is having a different symbol ?
Here is the original concept: http://i.imgur.com/puywRGS.jpg
Why the ingame mode of Lucian is having only half of this symbol ?
Is this symbol the combination of this others symbols? ]
The symbol hanging on lucian's belt is a memento he keeps from his wife's uniform. It evolved in the time between when his concept was made and the actual in game model. It, along with one of his shoulder pads, is meant to symbolize that he his carrying on both his and his wife's mission. - RiotSilver Other
[ What is your explanation for Thresh/Lucian lanes? Is it at least harder for Lucian to click the lantern? ]
Awkward. - RiotRunaan[ It's not really about Lucian but I wanted to know if you plan on doing more awesome login screens like Lucian's for the next champions to come ? ]
We're sure gonna try - RiotSilver[ Is Hired Gun Lucian based on The Twins from Matrix: Reloaded? ]
There's some influence from that there, for sure. - Morello [ When Senna was taken from Lucian did he sit on a park bench and stare at a cupcake with tears in his eyes? ]
"She was everything to me. But they took her. And with her, they took my pastries and my cookies. That was their mistake - because now, all I've got left is a cold cupcake." - RiotRunaan
“They thrive on sweets. They feast on desserts. These wretched abominations blight this world, and every last one of them will perish by my hand...” - Prof. Fridays[ Scarizard: are you going...to Scarborough fair? ]
Definitely never heard this once i my life ever, not even one time - Scarizard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: East Coast, US
A mini AMA with someone who wasn't there.
Surrender at 20: ZenonTheStoic's "Make-Up" Lucian AMA Summary!
As he was not available for yesterday's Lucian AMA, ZenonTheStoic hosted his own mini Lucian AMA earlier today. As Lucian is his first champion, ZenonTheStoic covered numerous topics pertaining Lucian's design from a mechanics point of view (as well as some about expressionism and his shoutcasting!).
Continue reading for a summary of the questions and answers so you don't have to comb through the reddit thread!
Here's what ZenonTheStoic had to say:
"On the off-chance you guys missed me at yesterday's excellent Lucian AMA, I decided to hold a little make-up AMA all by my lonesome.
I'm currently traveling through Germany to visit friends and family following gamescom; during the actual event I was in a little house in Seligenstadt cooking with an old friend of mine. There was only wired internet in the house since his landlord is scared of ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS. I was basically in the middle of the jungle, for all intents and purposes.
Now that I do have some reliable internet (for the next 12 hours or so at least) I thought I'd hold my own little AMA. Since I'm only here by myself--well, my sister is with me--I can only speak to Lucian's mechanics and the nitty-gritty of the design process from a mechanical point of view."Most of this information pertains to Lucian's mechanics and the history of his kit, however there are some more personal questions about ZenonTheStoic's shoutcasting and expressionism. I've sorted everything into either Lucian or other.
Here we go!
[ What's your favorite thing, or things, that had to be cut from his kit during development? ]
Here's the original design for Ardent Blaze: a star-shaped missile that you could blow up by reactivating the ability (would blow up by itself when it reached the end of its trajectory). It was entirely pass through and did no damage on pass through, but the explosion damaged enemies along the axes of the star and pushed them away from the center of the explosion. I remember feeling super smart about storing the vector information for each direction in the missile (this was before I discovered we have a "MoveAwayFrom" command, d'oh ;P) and bumping enemies away from you for an escape or towards you for a chase felt AWESOME.
It had to be cut for two reasons. First of all, misplay was critically damaging. If you did the opposite of what you wanted--nudge a chasing enemy closer to you or push an enemy you were chasing yourself away from you--it pretty much made matters much worse for you, and the difference between success and failure was often the fraction of a second. But much more importantly, an ability that moves enemies, even if it's just a small nudge, is absurdly high utility for an ADC. Move blocks, as we calll them, are the hardest form of CC. Vayne's condemn is 550 range and only has one use case--old Ardent Blaze was 1200 range and could be used for two different things. It was clearly a no go.
When we defined one of his weaknesses as "no CC" it was obvious we had to remove the nudge. So instead we went for marking + MS buff. - ZenonTheStoic[ What was the previous ult that he had? I heard it was some kind of missile. ]
Yup. It was called Seeking Shot or something like that. Here's how it worked:
You marked an enemy champion in ~1500 range. For the next 6s they received a Caitlyn ult icon over their head (placeholder art).
Within the next 6s you could shoot a missile in any direction. The missile would travel in that direction for about 0.5s and then start turning toward the marked target.
The missile would bank SLOWLY and overshoot and correct. I was madly proud of the fake physics I'd written for that simple spell. It gave the missile a feeling of heft and real world physics.
Once the missile was locked onto the target for 0.2s in a row, it would go into dumbfire mode, accelerating and gaining most of its damage. The target line would change colour to communicate this changed state. This was when the enemy could sidestep the missile. It could be body blocked at all times.
There were a whole bunch of reasons why we canned that ultimate, not least of all that it's an AP carry skill: it's a skill for a character who relies on skill execution rather than positioning. It also required you to look in too many places and potentially stand still for too long while lining up the shot. Finally, the counterplay I imagined wasn't there. Before I added the dumbfire mode people just shot the missile point blank at the enemy and all the banking was totally lost. After I added the dumbfire mode I never found the right set of values for missile speed/acceleration before/after dumb fire that made it challenging but possible to dodge.
I admit I still have the lua scripting shelved. Just in case I need it for another character at some point. It was my first complex skill ever, and I was really happy with it from a playing-as perspective. - ZenonTheStoic[ Sounds like worms' homing missile to me. ]
That was precisely the inspiration! - ZenonTheStoic[ how big a trend is "shoot a missile in a line that blows up on first target" in the design department ]
This is the most bog standard skillshot there is. It's always been THE defining design pattern for league. - ZenonTheStoic[ What was the reason to not make Lucians Q a Skillshot since that would somehow make more sense? ]
Morello et al answered this in great detail in the original AMA. Here's my TL;DR:
Our Q feels like a trick shot: lined up through a moving target, great range but dodgeable. If you hit it, you feel accomplished.[ Do you think he'll get buffed or nerfed within the next few patches? ]
Gating allows us to put greater power into the skill. It scales with bonus AD like mad once you get it to rank 5. - ZenonTheStoic
Dude, I'm in the middle of nowhere. I've not even played Lucian on live, nevermind seen useful data or talked to smart live design people. I really don't know.
Having said that: we fully expected him to feel underpowered on release. His skills break so many expected targeting paradigms and have such unintuitive use cases (in the case of the ulti; quick tip: if you use your ulti while you're not running away and are in range for your other abilities, you're doing it wrong) that we knew people would need a while to get used to him.
We have plans ready for both nerfing and buffing scenarios, but I assume we'll wait until the data's clearer. - ZenonTheStoic[ What is your honest opinion on Lucian as far as the current meta is set? His damage seems to lack which has seemed to been sacrificed for a bit more utility (speed buff with W/dash/long ranged ulti). There aren't many games I see him successful when it comes to him being the primary AD. Maybe a better fit for the 2 AD meta? ]
So as I said elsewhere, I'm traveling and only caught glimpses of Lucian being played. I heard QT thinks his ult is trash, for instance.
Here's the thing: we knew the ult would feel odd for a while. Yes, you do more damage with your skills and your passive procs, but you do that damage at 550 range. I watched a friend of mine play one game of Lucian yesterday and he's a really really quick learner. In the end of the game he was carrying his team and all the enemy bruisers jumped him any chance they got--so he didn't give them a chance. He hung around an inhibitor tower dive at very long range until the teams committed and then used a full channel of his R at full range to soften up champs from a distance. When he finally joined the fight they were low enough (from fighting his team and soaking up the culling damage) that he could deal with them.
Honestly I think he has a steep learning curve (by design) and I'm still concerned that once people fully figure him out he'll need to be nerfed. Remember that Orianna's learning curve played out over a full year. Granted, I'm no Xypherous; I admire that man and his designs, and my stuff is clearly nowhere near as deep or complex. But I do feel Lucian trends in that direction. - ZenonTheStoic[ Are you planning to buff his ultimate in any way? Right now you can get far more DPS just by using basic attacks. ]
Here's the way I like to phrase it: when cautious play allows you to do 0 damage, The Culling does more. - ZenonTheStoic[ Was their much of a though proccess behind Lucians e? I think its a great gapcloser/escape with a nice movespeed impairment "cleanse" but i dont think it works very well with his kit. ]
So the thought toward kit synergy in his E is that all his other skills require precise positioning. E allows you to get that positioning, even when a Nasus withered you. - ZenonTheStoic[ 1.Why is his ult dmg so weak and interruptable with cc ? Also why would you guys kill ap lucian ?
2. Also there is one anoying thing with his E and ult when you kill someone with his ult projectiles but you are not channeling it anymore you dont get the E reset, could it be changed so a kill with your ult dmg always guarantee you reset instead of people doing very dodgy stuff like ignite and casting ult just for the reset without even dealing dmg to target with your ult ]
1. His ult is designed not as a singular, once every two minutes "Now I kill you" button but as a different way for him to apply his damage: at range and while moving. If you're in range of CC, you probably ****ed up. AP Lucian was never a thing. It was a trap build that we killed because it was excessively gimmicky.
2. That E bug is something I want to look at when I'm back in the states. I'll probably just give him a grace period. - ZenonTheStoic[ What ADC's do you think truly counter him? What ADC's does he counter? Would be interesting to hear a dev's point of view on this! ]
Vayne happens to have a lot of tools to escape his Q damage and interrupt his ult if Lucian plays badly. Pro-tip: if you ever ult a Vayne at less than 1000 range, you deserve to lose ;P - ZenonTheStoic[ Will Lucian be available in Worlds Championship? If so, can you see him being played there ? ]
I'd have to check with eSports, but the rule is 4 weeks after live, which would be halfway through the playoffs. I assume IF he's available he'll be available from the semis onward. Not sure how I feel about introducing a variable at that stage, but fortunately we have WAY smarter dudes than me coming up with those rules and prepping our pros. - ZenonTheStoic[ First off, I love his ult. It's nice to have an ult that has more utility and requires more thought than "yeah I guess I'll teamfight now" or "I'll kill you really hard".
Second, I'm curious as to how his mechanics affected his visual design. Was there ever a time during the mechanical design that made an addition that "just had" to be reflected in his aesthetics, or vice versa? Obviously it all flows together really well: blasting his ult and hearing Lucian scream and let lose is really satisfying and fits the character. But I can imagine it'd be difficult to do both visual and play design in vacuum from each other, and I'm curious how much freedom you had with that. ]
Thank you so much! That's precisely what I was going for with the ult.[ NAME ALL THE ITEMS THAT HAVE AN EFFECT APPLIED BY HIS ULTI.
His visual design was pretty much set in stone by the time I started iterating on the kit. As Morello hinted at in the other AMA, there were other designers before me working on Lucian. The animations, of course, were custom built for my skills, but I love being a collaborator with the rest of my pod, so I made sure to be influenced by my animator/vfx artist/sound engineer etc as much as my design influenced them. - ZenonTheStoic
CAPS LOCK IS MANDATORY. ]
RYLAJS CRYSTAL SCEPTER. ALL SPELL VAMP ITEMS. ERR. ANYTHING THAT PROCS ON SPELL AOE. - ZENONTHESTOIC[ Q1: I haven't tried Lucian yet, but I heard he has low hp and low AD compared to other "marksman." Is this because he relies more on his mobility and use of spells?
Q2: What would be considered his predominant playstyle? He seems similar to a vayne in movement and an Ez with his skills. ]
He's in the lower half of health as far as other marksmen are concerned, but is AD is pretty decent. And yes, mobility and fragility are great companions--one justifies the other.[ Do you involve the pros into the process of making a new champ and ask them for a opinion after they played 1-2 games? I know you have some really good players at riot who play diamond and stuff, how do you "balance" a champion so that also the lower-skilled bronze players could use them aswell? I think its really difficult to balance champions strength and skill cap for big parts of the playerbase Edit: Another question, is it possible that you will again cast a game for ZDF neo or something like that? ]
Q2 is something I can't wait for the community to figure out. I don't know that I have the definitive answer here. He's definitely a strong kiting/picking champ, but what playstyle does that translate to? We'll see! - ZenonTheStoic
Yeah, we do involve the pros! They were shown Lucian at two stages in his production and gave their feedback. There wasn't a lot of actionable stuff this time around, but we get a great early read on which skills excite them.
As for balancing for low elo, fortunately I'm Silver 5!
I'll definitely cast for the ZDF again if they ask me to. They have my email! - ZenonTheStoic[ I notice that sometimes when I auto attack a minion with my passive up and he dies on the first shot, the second shot will be fired at an adjacent minion. With that said, is this intended or should the shot be "wasted" on the dead minion? If not, how does it choose which target will it shoot for the second shot? ]
I heard that too! It shouldn't be happening, really. When the minion dies between shots, a second, visual-only shot should be fired at its corpse (just as a visual check that yes, your passive did get burned on this). Can you please pay attention to the healthbar of the second minion? I assume it only looks like it's shooting at that minion.[ Do you expect to see Lucian on the competitive play? ]
TL;DR: Lightslinger only ever attacks the same enemy. - ZenonTheStoic
Too early to tell, but I'm hopeful! - ZenonTheStoic[ What was the thought process behind making his ult only hit one target at a time and being so narrow of a field? Even with his mobility while using it, it feels difficult to use effectively due to the things mentioned above and its locking in of the angle. It feels only effective at medium distance or its potential range. ]
Lucian's ult at first was pass-through with no damage fall off. This made it way too madly strong. We tried to define him and give him a clear role and at the same time add counter play. The moment we made the ult blockable (entirely Scarizard's idea, who had much more of a hand in the creation of Lucian than is usually the case for the live design sign-off; he's truly a Hero of Labor) we saw all kinds of counterplay emerge that allowed us to pump a lot more power into the ult.
And again, power is more than numbers. Power is all the factors combined. Pumping out similar damage to basic skills but at 1400 range and WHILE MOVING is madly powerful, even if it's not a higher number. - ZenonTheStoic[ How different was the original lucian kit from the release and what was the original kit like? On Qtpie's stream he has said that the lucian he played before reveal and the lucian after reveal were completely different champions. ]
It was quite different! It started with a dash that sent light images out in four directions that marked enemies, an activatable double shot, a homing missile on his basic kit and an ultimate that made all basic skills free to use and gave you 1 second cool down reduction on hitting enemy champs (plus crazy steroids).
QT played the version that had constant double shooting as his passive (very mathy, but he had the highest potential AS in the game but FELT slow) and the homing missile as his R.
Kits change! That's how champion design works. It's a highly iterative process. - ZenonTheStoic[ How did you come up with the idea for his E and W? They work really well together when chaseing an enemy champion. ]
The E was always a dash (even though it was on the W button for the longest time). The fact that it clears slows cam from us having to kill its old passive when we killed the old Q--the old Q was a simple double shoot and the old E passive was extra damage on the next two attacks. We wanted something defensive on the E, but nothing crazy bruisery. Someone (I believe it might have been statikk or scarizard, not sure who) suggested slow purge and I was like, all of my yes
The W came to be when Casey Robinson, my VFX artist, came to me with an AMAZING looking star shaped explosion and asked if I could imagine a skill in that pattern. I definitely could. I implemented a prototype in about 20 minutes and initial testing immediately showed that it was hella fun. So we ran with it and tried a million different effects on it. The final version, the MS speed on hitting a marked target, was once again down to Msr. Scarizard/statikk/Volty from the live design team. They took my shitty W (marked targets take extra magic damage equal to x% of Lucian's AD) and made it into an awesome mobility skill.
Sometimes I feel like a fraud saying I designed this champion. So much of it is a team effort. - ZenonTheStoic[ Why did you decided to do the ultimate so he doesn't completely clear a creep wave when Lucian just hit 6 ? Why Trinity Force isn't one of his core item ( based on the store ) when, i believe, it fill his kit briantly Why did you make the W bullet that slow ? Because i think it's one of his key ability ( the fact that he boost him up and help him kitting ) Why did you decide to force his Q to have a target and simply not let it be a skill shot ? I find myself in a lot of situation where it doesn't land like i would like it to be landed And finally, why Lucian can't turn around while he's firing his ultimate ? That make me so mad when people just step aside and dodge the entire ult' ]
His R already does 400% damage to minions! His wave clear is, if anything, too high.
The new trinity force didn't exist when we made his recommended items. I'll sit down with Scarizard when I'm back and see if it shouldn't be in there.
The W is actually obscenely fast for a skill shot.
Q I've answered elsewhere.
There was a version where he could retarget his R. One reason he can't is counterplay: the enemy should be able to dodge the ulti, so that I can make the ulti stronger and give it a shorter cooldown. - ZenonTheStoic[ A friend of mine said you said you had the idea for this champion is this true ? ]
Eoin Colgan was the concept artist who came up with Lucian, not me. - ZenonTheStoic[ What do you think is the priority for Lucian's ult? Attack speed or AD? ]
AD - ZenonTheStoic[ So im a big fan of Lucian. This might not fully be about mechanics, but was he designed to lane well with Thresh? You know with the whole wife thing going on between them... ]
It's partly an accident and partly me being a huge fan of CertainlyT. - ZenonTheStoic[ How did you guys get to the decision of not letting Lucian's ult scale with the AS buff from SotD-active? I think it could have been a way of putting more item's into the Marksmen item pool and Sword of the Divine is so rarely bought these days. ]
It would have made the item too much of a must buy for Lucian. - ZenonTheStoic[ First off, I love Lucian. My girlfriend plays Soraka almost exclusively and I feel like Lucian is extremely fun when not gated by mana costs, pew pew!
My question though is why give his ultimate attack speed scaling? I feel like most of his kit promotes high AD items, but then his ultimate - while it does have AD scaling - has this... Strangeness where if you have high Aspd it feels really great to use, but doesn't quite line up with any of his other skills.
I'm not saying either build is right or wrong, maybe they're both great, it just seems that both versions of building him can't really coexist. ]
Yeah, there's a few things here. You correctly identified that AS "feels" good and we want to support that. At a very low / beginner level, you want to be able to build things that feel good and not completely screw yourself.
Secondly, The Culling feels like an extension of Lucian's auto attack. It just feels right to have it scale with AS also.
Finally, at the top level it's about build diversity. Once you have a bunch of AD and armor pen, building AS becomes very cost effective. - ZenonTheStoic[ What was the thoughts behind the mechanics on his W. To me it doesnt seem to fit with his kit.. but maybe im missing something.
Edit. and why did u guys choose a star for the shot? ]
The star was there first. Casey made a badass looking star explosion and I made the skill to fit. And why would you say that? He's all about mobility and the skill gives him more mobility. - ZenonTheStoic[ First of all - I like the champion really much. I've already played about 10 games with him on diamond soloq. He has good lane presence, his Q requires good positioning to harass with in lane through minons and that's why he encourages me to practise him a lot more than most of adcs. His passive is a great punish-in-lane tool as well, overall good laning phase and not-so-bad late-game. However, I feel like his Ardent Blaze is severely limited. It feels not natural to aim with, the damage is quite low, movement speed bonus isn't significant enough. As you shouldn't max it first, it does not help with waveclear neither. The other thing I don't like is his reset on E while scoring kills/assists on The Culling. I've already played him about 15 times and it is just useless - during 3 seconds you can get one reset per whole CD when you are lucky. In the teamfight, as assist. It feels impossible to kill people with Culling itself while running/chasing IMO purpose of this ult is either to discourage enemies from chasing bringing them low (and then potentially dash in to fnish them) OR finish enemies who got out of you range). In both scenarios this reset is quite useless. What are your thoughts on it and do you have any idea how to adress these issues? ]
We're okay with a useful E reset being a one in ten games thing.
Thanks for your kind words! - ZenonTheStoic
[ after playing lucian a few times i began to feel like casring Q and using his passive are the only satisfying parts to his kit. are you satisfied with the amount of oomph his W E and R have? i feel like all three of these spells feel like hitting people with balled up paper personally. ]
I personally am very satisfied with them, yes. Give it a few weeks, you'll see. - ZenonTheStoic[ Is it intentional that multiple "Light" champions have Proc-based mechanics? (Leona-Passive, Lux-Passive/Ulti, Lucian Passive/W) ]
This is a tough one to answer. I feel there's an underlying trope here of light marking enemies, but I can't quite put my finger on it. It feels right, you know? - ZenonTheStoic[ It seem to me the general consensus is that his ult is weak. I don't feel like that at all. Given that you can apply w and then reapply the movespeed boost while shooting ult, it seems incredibly strong. ]
Yeah, to be perfect frank with you I couldn't care less about the general consensus one week after champion release. For one, negative opinions are exaggerated (because the impetus to post positive thoughts is much smaller), but also because learning curve.
So much of the power of the ult is in things that aren't just damage numbers. - ZenonTheStoic[ When creating Lucian, did you have a certain support that he would work well with? How much countering was discussed when creating Lucian? Was he made to liven up the bot lane scene, kind of like Quinn? ]
I don't think Lucian was specifically "made" to shake up the bot lane meta, but this is very much an intended side effect. Let's see how it turns out!
As for supports, we found that he generally works with most supports that are strong now (which is a good thing), but particularly supports that can hold the enemy in place for 3s. - ZenonTheStoic[ How does The Culling's AS Ratio round up/down ? For example if a Lucian is level 16 with no items/masteries/runes/teammates, he will have (153.3% + 100%)0.638 = 0.95381 AS.
That means his ult should shoot out 0.95381 * 10.5 + 7.5 = 17.515005 bullets.
Will he shoot out 17 or 18 bullets? when does it round up/down and why
The leaguewiki says 17 so I thought maybe it only rounds down and never up but with 2.5 AS you shoot out 34 bullets when it should actually shoot out 33.75. Weird ]
The actual formula, from memory, is (AS * 2.5/3/3.5) + 2.5, and it rounds down. - ZenonTheStoic[ Actually Lucian ult is countered if you walk diagonally, what do you think about that ? Should it be changed ? ]
Lucian can also walk diagonally? - ZenonTheStoic[ glaubst du das Lucian momentan stark genug ist um bei den Pro´s zu spielen und ein standartmäßiger pick werden kann? ]
Ist noch viel zu früh. Die meisten Pros aus Europa hatten auch wegen den regionals noch keine Zeit ernsthaft Lucian zu üben.
(For you non-Germans: dude asked if Lucian will see pro play. I said it's too early to tell, particularly because EU pros didn't have time to properly train him what with the EU regionals) - ZenonTheStoic[ To me Lucian's kit seems similar to Graves' kit. Was that intentional or is that something that only seems similar to me? ]
I told Mr. FeralPony that I would travel back in time and murder him before he could design Graves so I could steal his dash.
Mr. FeralPony told me no. - ZenonTheStoic[ Is there any talk on the team to buff his ult? As of right now its incredibly underwhelming in terms of damage. ]
Early data suggests close to a 49% winrate. This is while we're still in the steepest climb of his learning curve. - ZenonTheStoic[ Is there still the bug that his Q costs twice as much as it's supposed to? ]
Yeah, I don't think we've hunted it down yet. I suspect it's latency related. We double-checked that all the right files were pushed; last I heard we were completely unable to reproduce the bug from our offices. We'll keep looking until we squash it. - ZenonTheStoic[ Hang on now, This exact scenario has happened to me several times and I have even gotten last hits with the second bullet on a second minion.
I have been playing Lucian exclusively since he was released and I can assure you this happens.
I honestly thought it was intended and it's actually a pretty cool effect. ]
Interesting! Will investigate! - ZenonTheStoic
[ What was the most fun thing to do while designing your champion? ]
The most fun thing is coming up with abilities and seeing your art pod support them with custom animations/sounds/vfx. Instead of derping around and shooting a barrage of mystic shots from roughly his groinal regions with no animations whatsoever all of a sudden The Culling turned into this monster of a smoothly animated skills with giant badass light projectiles and the most satisfying gun sounds. Jason spent SO LONG on those gun sounds. Fun fact: the sound you hear in the login screen when it goes from the Senna intro to the motion graphic proper is based on early versions of the gun sound that proved too loud for the actual game - ZenonTheStoic[ Do you dream about casting bigger tournaments again? ]
Nope, not really. I really enjoy casting, but I have no illusions about my relative skill level. Our current casters spend so much time practising and casting, there's no way I wouldn't seriously lower the quality of a broadcast right now. I've always said I'll do smaller casts as they come up--I casted a community game with qu1ksh0t at gamescom, and that was great fun.
Also, game design is a full time job and madly fulfilling. I want to say that subjectively I believe I'm better now at game design than I ever would have been at casting.
I really appreciate every fan who comes up to me and says they miss me as a caster. I <3 you guys, really! And I loved every minute of my casting career. But here's a thing you need to know about me: I've been playing video games since I was 5 (I started with a q-bert rip off for the 8086 called j-bird). When I was 7 I asked my dad how games were made. I didn't let up until he taught me fundamental BASIC. Then I found a floppy disk of .BAS files and taught myself the rest of the language based on those source code listings. I remember booting up Civilization a few years later and seeing the title "Sid Meier's Civilization", and I said to myself, one day my name will be in a place like that.
I'm living that dream now - ZenonTheStoic[ You said, you are probably not gonna cast unless it is small tournaments. Would you consider doing a German language cast for Worlds? I believe no German cast would be worse then everything you could produce
While I have no problems watching and understand an English language cast - I know many people won't understand it. ]
I don't know that I'd be good enough for that. I'll check with eSports what their plans are for German casts. - ZenonTheStoic