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07-19-2013   #1 (permalink)
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Default Red Post Collection: Morello on new TF Passive, Removal of Global Passives & More

Surrender at 20: Red Post Collection: Morello on new TF Passive, Removal of other Global PASSIVES, and Jungle Problems

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What better way to kill time between LCS games than with a red post collection!
Continue reading for Morello's thoughts on the new TF passive, eventually removing Janna's and other champs global passives, and what's currently wrong with the jungle.

Morello on Twisted Fate's New Passive
Following up on CertainlyT'scomments from earlier, Morello also had something to say about the upcoming change to Twisted Fate's passive.
"TF's old passive is basically tons of free power to the whole team, and it adds no new gameplay. The new passive doesn't add a ton more gameplay, but at least reins it in to something manageable (and more satisfying for TF players).
I know it's not as much of an issue in solo queue, but TF needs some kind of nerf. This is, literally, the nicest and friendliest nerf that could be done."
As for it Twisted Fate's dice being loaded to give him better odds than actually 1-6, Morello noted:
"I don't know the math, but it's definitely loaded dice. The variance is lower than it will seem."
He also commented:
"TF is broken - this passive won't actually fix that, but it'll at least get his power to be slightly lower without making him any less fun."
Continuing:
"His global (even the un-global version) presence is so strong that it validates his strengths alone. I'm pretty confident TF will need to be hit harder, but we want to do it right. Anyone who's been around awhile knows how sensitive his balance is, so we need to treat it carefully."
After facing some criticism for such a quick change on TF while other strong characters like Jayce and Thresh are still running rampant - he noted:
"That's because it takes no time to do the TF passive and get it right. Comparitively, we've been nerfing Jayce (and will continue to) - but the situation is more complex and difficult. Therefore, requires more time and iteration. Same with Thresh.

One thing to mention is our last couple of patches have been tough on us internally, so we've had to delay a couple of the more complex changes. We're trying to avoid "Olafing" these characters, and want to do more focused nerfs. We could nuke them from orbit, but we've been trying to avoid that so we don't just rotate the list of who the OP characters are."
He elaborated:
"That's because everyone on the forums think they understand how game development works, when in actuality it's very different.

For us, work is primarily done through testing. Things that are simple (TF passive) require very little testing and don't interfere with tests of other things (like Jayce nerfs). Additionally, it's a cost/value ratio. If something has a trivial cost, and a minor value, it's worth doing in many cases. So while we're testing the Jayce stuf out, there's plenty of time between build compiles, discussions and feedback about the last test, and other things that let us go "let's just fix this thing real quick since it's low-risk.""
Janna's Passive and Supports
When a summoner pointed out that it's funny that Riot is removing Twisted Fate's global passive and not Janna's global movespeed passive, Morello commented:
"I'm not sure why we haven't changed this one - though I expect people to lose their minds when we do.

Prepare your bodies, that passive will eventually be out of the game."
Similarly someone mentioned that Riot hates invisible power and that Janna's passive equates to everyone getting two free movement speed quints for free - Morello reiterated his earlier statement about removing Janna's passive, saying:
"I agree. I think the answer is we just haven't gotten to it yet."
In another thread, he phrased his sentiments as:
"If a character's picked because they make the whole team faster, with no interactions to do it, then I'm glad we'd remove that strategic decision.

Janna has a number of powerful and satisfying qualities; her ultimate is still one of the best skills in the game, and her lane presence is undeniable. If 3% global MS is Janna's identity, then we have way, way bigger problems."
When asked if Zilean wil lalso have his passive, which grants a global XP bonus, removed, Morello noted:
"On any character I can get away with it, yes."
He also commented that improving supports is on of the biggest plans for S4
"Agreed - one of our biggest S4 initiatives.

It was a "we hope to..." in S3. It's a priority in 4."
Jungle Problems
On the PBE, Spirit of the Ancient Golem has been nerfed reducing its total HP from 500 to 450.

Here's Morellobatting off a few summoners who are upset about the change for a role that already has some gold / itemization issues.
"50 HP nerf on really efficient item = junglers are not worth using?

There's a gold flow problem in the jungle - we agree - but the problem is not jungler power, it's jungler build satisfaction and expectations of the team, much like support."
When asked if there was anything Riot was planning to do to help out the jungle, he commented:
"Yes - but some of it is season 4. Remember we did just buff total jungle XP when we changed the camp timing to prevent early golems.

These problems are similar to the support problems. What this means is:
* Junglers are powerful and meaningful in the game.
* Junglers don't feel satisfied with the amount of gold they get in the game
* Junglers are expected to buy team items each game, which is not always desirable
* Junglers are not immune to balance just because they have other problems
Let me be clear: I understand the issue you guys have with junglers, and it's something that does take more than buffs or nerfs to fix. But if something is too strong, having other feel considerations will not (and should not) change our balance methods with this position."
After being asked if this means there won't be any big jungle changes until the start of Season 4, Morello noted:
"We won't probably fix the core issue until then, though small changes (like the XP one) can happen mid-season.

Again, junglers are very good and contribute a lot of power. Junglers have satisfaction issues."
He continued:
"We're changing something fundamentally in the jungle then to put more gold in the jungler's hands overall, and keep it out of laner's hands as much as possible. It requires map geo changes though, which are a nightmare and very disruptive to the competitive season.

I don't think being overstatted props junglers up because they're not close to being weak (there's no reasonable conclusion right now that junglers suck), but instead are lacking in gold satisfaction. The confusion is you guys are comparing feel to raw power balance."
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07-19-2013   #2 (permalink)
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I got stomped hard by a freakin Ryze from level 1 because he had so much movement speed from runes, masteries, and Janna in his team lol.
 
07-20-2013   #3 (permalink)
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I don't get why they make it sound like Thresh is so hard to balance or at least bring down his power.
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07-20-2013   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tardar
I don't get why they make it sound like Thresh is so hard to balance or at least bring down his power.
This is Riot we're talking about though.
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07-20-2013   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tardar
I don't get why they make it sound like Thresh is so hard to balance or at least bring down his power.
Why?

Passive: Collecting souls is iconic for him. Can't really nerf this too much without making it useless/Draven'd.

Q: Is a grab, a stun AND a gap closer. They can nerf the range, damage or CC duration for as much as they want but it will always do those 3 things and they can't remove one or the other because Thresh's kit relies on it.

W: The free blink is what makes Thresh iconic, I doubt they will ever remove that, nerf the leash range all you want it will still be a free blink, you can even remove the shield it will still be a free blink.

R: All it simply does is slow and damage, even if they nerfed the slow by HALF it will still be strong and it's an ultimate so it should be strong anyway.


E: unless they Draven the passive component it will still be free auto attack harass. Thresh relies heavily on E active too.

Sona and Janna have been nerfed to death, they're still top tier picks simply because of what their kits bring to the team.

Last edited by Kenzor; 07-20-2013 at 06:41 AM.
 

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