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Mega 03-15-2013 02:27 PM

Karma's relaunch threada
Surrender at 20: Karma Rework Coming to PBE; New Kit Revealed


Karma rework where? Karma rework here! Instead of only having access to her updated look, we now have her fully updated kit!
Continue on to read up on Karma's new abilities, the fate of her existing two skins, the upcoming AMA with the Rioters behind her update, and a blurb or two about her free skin!

Karma Relaunch Heading to PBE
Our Lead Content Designer, Morello, talks about and provides links for insight about Karma's rework. He also mentions that she will have an "extended PBE stay" so the Community can test her out and provide feedback.
"We’ve talked a lot about giving Karma a complete overhaul, and we’re ready to discuss her changes. Karma’s relaunch is the real deal, covering her art, abilities and lore for a total renovation. We know she’s been the source of a lot of contention since her launch, but we also know that she’s got a cult following of Karma diehards. Here’s an overview of why we think she needs a rework.
Karma’s aesthetics are confusing. While she looks cool, it’s difficult to read her role at face value. Grumpy Monkey has provided more info for you on Karma’s look. We’ve also seen players eschew her support role for bursty mage gameplay, so we seized this opportunity to give Karma more options in lane. Scarizard has talked more on Karma’s evolving mechanics. We also think that Karma needs a new story that suits her updated abilities and aesthetics. RiotRunaan has taken you through Karma’s transformation into an unstoppable Ionian leader.
For Karma diehards, we have a special treat – we’ll be giving those of you who’ve unlocked Karma a skin based on her traditional look.
Karma’s getting an extended PBE stay so we can thoroughly test her new gameplay and incorporate your feedback."
Sun Goddess and Sakura Karma
For those of you who own one (or both) of Karma's skins, fear not! Hippalus has stated here that those skins are here to stay! He also had a little blurb to say about the free Karma skin:

"No skins are being replaced. Karma's existing skins will all be updated to reflect her new look."

"Everybody that owns Karma when she is relaunched on the live servers will receive the free traditional skin. "

Karma's New Skillset
From Morello's post, we can find a link to another Red post done by Scarizard. Here he talks about the issues found in Karma's old skillset and what roles she can now fill as a "Support" Champion:

Passive: Gathering Fire
Damage from Karma’s spells and basic attacks lower Mantra’s cooldown.

Empowers Karma’s abilities, adding an extra effect to the next ability cast.

Q: Inner Flame
Skillshot that deals magic damage and slows enemies.
          • Empowered by Mantra: Soulflare – Increases damage and leaves behind a zone that slows and, after a brief delay, explodes for AoE damage.

W: Focused Resolve
Enemy-targeted tether that deals damage over time. If the tether is unbroken after a short duration, the tethered target is rooted in place.

          • Empowered by Mantra: Renewal – Deals bonus damage and heals Karma for the duration of the tether.

E: Inspire
Shields an ally and grants them a short speed boost.
          • Empowered by Mantra: Defiance – Enemies near the shielded ally are damaged while nearby allies are shielded and granted a short speed boost.

"Old Karma had issues. What were they?
Karma’s kit was in a weird place, but her ultimate was especially problematic. Her base abilities didn’t feel impactful and only felt effective when supercharged by Mantra. On top of that, when Karma had two charges of Mantra, we had to make both of them weaker to compensate for players double casting empowered spells.
The changes we made to Karma’s kit focused on making each decision fun and meaningful while giving her abilities the focus they needed to perform her intended role. We kept the “empowering”-type gameplay of Mantra, but instead of waiting around for it to recharge, Karma’s basic attacks and abilities now lower Mantra’s cooldown. This rewards aggressive play so you can “buyback” her ultimate. Also, we gave Mantra a single charge to pump extra power into each cast. We also made sure Mantra empowers Karma’s abilities in drastically different ways, leading to more impactful decision-making and a better feeling of accomplishment when you pull off the right move at the right time.
Why was she hard to place in team comps?
Karma had the offensive tools to support her team in small skirmishes but not the powerful defensive abilities she needed to protect a team. Also, her all-purpose abilities are so broad they never felt like the right choice in any situation. All in all, Karma lacked direction.
Why isn’t Karma fun?
The effectiveness of Karma’s abilities relied too heavily on your teammates knowing all their nuances. No matter how hard you were carrying with Karma, your teammates had to be just as good with her for you to be super effective. When an ally’s confused about whether or not he should run from or pass through your Spirit Bond, we probably made a mistake.
What did we like about Karma?
Despite all the Mantra hate we’ve got going on, we actually think the concept is pretty kickass. It’s unique and character-defining to old Karma, and augmenting her abilities with an immense surge of Ionian will is visually and thematically fun. We also liked how Karma could turn the tables on her opponents with abilities that provided defensive bonuses and had hidden offensive power. Finally, Spirit Bond’s “clothesline” gameplay is really cool, but it’d work better on a tank champion that has an easier time jumping into the fray.
Karma’s new role
Originally envisioned as a support, Karma’s fringe successes actually came from players using her in the top or mid lanes as an AP burst mage with support abilities, much like Zilean or Morgana. We like this direction and want to encourage you to boost both her offensive and support abilities by building AP. We also want to make sure she can hold her own as a solo or with a lane partner.
Finally, we’ve updated her skills so allies are reliant on Karma, but Karma’s not reliant on them. She’s got enough power at her fingertips to feel strong as a mage or as a support without teammates having to work in perfect concert for you to be effective."
On Karma's Finer Points
Scarizard talks a little more about Karma's skills, focusing on her Mantra:
"Karma still gains a point in Mantra at Level 1, but now has the ability to level it at 6, 11, and 16.

Points into Mantra increase the effectiveness of Soulflare, Renewal, and Defiance - so a player focusing on Inner Flame poke will still have her E2 be effective (even if E is at rank 1), while a support karma who might want to level Inspire can still get a sizeable chunk of Soulflare damage to go along with that slow zone."
He also mentioned her auto attacks, saying:
"Her AA range is 525 at the moment. Not gonna give homegirl incentives to aggressively AA and keep her at the old numbers! Take Inspire and level 1 and enjoy just training people with her super awesome auto attack!"
Karma AMA on Tuesday, March 19
If you happen to have questions, comments, or concerns of the heart about the new Karma update, Riot is hosting an AMA on reddit on Tuesday, March 19th.
"Have questions about Karma’s complete story, visual and gameplay relaunch? These folks are holding a reddit AMA this Tuesday, March 19 from 10 AM to 12 PM PST to answer all your burning Karma questions:
  • Ryan “Morello” Scott (Lead Content Designer)
  • Patrick “Scarizard” Scarborough (Associate Live Designer)
  • Devon “RiotRunaan” Giehl (Associate Creative Designer)
  • Josh “Grumpy Monkey” Singh (Senior Character Artist)"

Kenzor 03-15-2013 05:46 PM

Finally they got rid of that stupid passive.

I'm glad they got rid of all that OP AoE knockback/stun/silence nonsense that they planned and kept her kit close to the original but still stronger in terms of support. Seems like they were aiming for a Lulu approach with a decent amount of CC and utility without going insane on hard CC.

I wonder how strong that AoE shield is lol.

Mega 03-15-2013 06:14 PM

I kinda wish they would have kept her old passive in somehow :( That was kinda what made "karma a *****" lol. If they got you low without thinking and you had high AP + that passive you could annihilate them :)

I'm still looking forward to how this new kit works out on her...especially with a skillshot o_o;

Mega 03-18-2013 07:56 PM

Damn itttt Riottttttt :(


WIP guise, Moobeat is otherwise preoccupied! Srs stuff.
SkinSpotlights guy says there's more Karma rework stuff floating around, plus some minor texture changes to the Howling Abyss map.

There might be a little hiccup in their patch deployment. Ququroon had a little something to say about how the games are unplayable. - Associate QA Analyst - Gameplay
IS SHE COMING TONIGHT?!:! We ran into a few issues that caused games to be unplayable, so we figured you guys wouldn't exactly want that. Trust me, I'm with you guys in wanting to see her played as soon as possible.
I did want to get this post up for you guys, because I see you all already taking a peek at her skins and stuff. I know the title is a lying jerkface.
Anyways though! Let's hear it! What do you guys think?
Although there's an update on the next tentative time we can expect to play Karma:
As far as when she'll be playable... I don't want to say tomorrow in case something happens, but... Tomorrow is likely.
Thank you for your (continued) patience. <3

Ququroon continues on to explain why Karma's Fans were added back into the model. Granted, it's only visible during her dance:
I felt this needed it's own post.
Yes, we did add them in, on all her skins. Yes, as some of you have guessed, it is only on her Dance. We wanted to give you guys an homage to the fans, as they were a key element to her in the past.
We did initially remove the fans, as Morello quipped in the Leak thread. We weren't fully prepared for how fond of them some of you were; which is a point we've heard loud and clear, and will be discussing further in-depth for future Relaunches and Visual Upgrades.
Allow me to jump into the fray here for a second. On our champions, especially older ones, we have very iconic elements. Things that when you think of the champion, you can't help but think of. This can go one way or another, either good or bad, weak or strong.
An example of a this that we've looked at in the past would be Annie's panties. Could you argue that it was a core element to her design? Sure. Okay. But was it strong, or a good thing? A little more arguable. Was it something we wanted to keep? How would it look with increased fidelity? How much are players attached? We reviewed this in her case, and removed them. We felt that something like Tibbers was much stronger, more core, and very recognizable in her case, and so we pumped that up to the awesome floppy bear you see today.
The take away here for and from Karma is that we should scrutinize core elements more. This doesn't mean we'll necessarily keep them all, but perhaps if we do wind up in a similar situation, we'll keep some kind of reference in. For the fans, as I said, we added them back in as an homage, for those fond of them. We really wanted to push the Mantle of Decorum, and her Mantra style gameplay. And who knows? Maybe this will open the space for another fan champion to blow us all away?
Does this properly explain our choices, whether you like them or not?
Karma Skin Models

Karma Skin Models
Note that the Traditional Karma skin is available to be bought on the PBE server, but it's not able to be used in gameplay. This is not intentional, so Ququroon says!

The video still has her old voice over, plus her little floaty fans. It's still very incomplete, but at least you get a better idea of how she looks in-game!

Here's a little blurb about, perhaps, a new Karma skin. Jade Empress Karma?

Traditional Karma

Sun Goddess Karma

Sakura Karma

Classic Karma

Veloze 03-18-2013 08:01 PM

Why are the faces on character models always so ugly?

Mega 03-18-2013 08:05 PM

Dunno :X

I just hope to God they fix Sakura Karma's thunder thighs LOL... ;_;

Sizzurp 03-18-2013 08:29 PM

I think I wont main as karma anymore.. thanks riot for making those ugly skins :), Btw I can report them for buying 2 skins looking as the respectively splash art, with dress,etc and now looking as shit + without dress. Huehue


Mega 03-18-2013 10:01 PM

Video added, only 1 skill working right now, but the rest of her animations seem to be working~ (She's still not on PBE yet!)

Nihil679 03-18-2013 10:23 PM

Additional skins are meh but the default looks really godlike.

Mega 03-19-2013 05:12 PM

Surrender at 20: 03/19 PBE Update - Relaunch of Karma, Zac's Skin


-Yesterday Ququroon said that the Karma Relaunch patch would likely be out "tomorrow," and it delivered! We got a patch full of delicious new ability particles and Zac's release skin!
Continue reading to see all the fancy videos for Karma's skills, a video on Zac's new Special Weapon skin, and more!

Hello there, Grumpy Zac Special Weapon Zac!

Alright well, guess the name for our Grumpy Zac is actually Special Weapon Zac!

Ququroon is at it again, this time with the real Relaunch of Karma for this PBE update!

Ququroon - Associate QA Analyst - Gameplay
The long awaited Relaunch of Karma is here! Yes, really! (when it's done patching)

Please feel free to leave feedback in this thread regarding Karma or any related bugs you encounter. Your feedback here will influence the changes we make, as well as aiding us in our future champion visual upgrades.

In her visual upgrade, Karma is receiving a new... everything! From her concept up, we've left nothing unchanged. Expect to see Karma sporting an updated model, animations, particles, sounds, kit - everything! Her skins have received similar love, including a Traditional version for those fans of her older look.

We’re very much looking forward to your feedback!
In his next post, Ququroon started a list of known bugs on Karma:
Known Bugs:
  • Karma's New Lore isn't in... yet!
  • Soulflare (Mantra'd Q) is missing part of the particle!

Sound files show that Karma does have a new voice over for her remake. BUT - it's looking like she keeps her old voice with the Traditional Karma skin!

And here we have an Ability Preview for Classic Karma. Keep in mind some particles are incomplete.

It's Traditional Karma, the free skin that will be given to players who have Karma before her relaunch to Live! Please note that she has her old voiceover for this skin!

Sakura Karma in all her glory. Goodbye, long kimono!

Sun Goddess Karma, reporting for duty!

Kenzor 03-20-2013 12:14 PM

Might just be jumping to conclusions, but Mantra W seems very lackluster compared to Q and E. Can only see it being used in 1v1 duels...but then again Mantra Q + W's root might be even more effective for that purpose.

Blah blah PBE subject to change etc. will wait and see.

Nihil679 03-20-2013 09:35 PM

They updated Sakura Karma.
@ Riot - Please give Sakura Karma her kimono back! - Page 37 - League of Legends Community

Rhois 03-21-2013 12:24 AM


Originally Posted by Nihil679 (Post 1810388)

That looks superb. I'm impressed with the Karma rework overall, it seems--despite the amount of time taken--to be one of the best. I don't know if they've changed their approach, but it seems more refined and solid than say, Kayle or Jax reworks.

Nihil679 03-21-2013 07:31 AM


Originally Posted by Rhois (Post 1810401)
That looks superb. I'm impressed with the Karma rework overall, it seems--despite the amount of time taken--to be one of the best. I don't know if they've changed their approach, but it seems more refined and solid than say, Kayle or Jax reworks.

Well you have to consider the reason behind the reworks. For Kayle and Jax, they had to rework them because their kits were too difficult to allow for nerfing without just destroying the champion outright. Rework was needed for the reason that it makes them easier to balance.

Karma on the other hand is a rework because her kit just doesn't work. Almost anything could be an upgrade.

Mega 03-21-2013 12:08 PM

Thank you God! I was afraid Riot was just going to ignore the players like usual...but they surprised me and actually fixed it :)


There was a massive outcry after we saw Sakura Karma's kimono changed - but now it's back! Not only that, the particles on her Q (Inner Flame) are now working, plus her E got a minor tooltip change.

Continue reading to find out more details on Karma's fixes and changes, Zac's (E) Elastic Slingshot, and more!

Balance Changes

Rengar's E
A changed file name for his Bola Strike popped up, but it seems to be nothing we can actually judge. No actual changes to report.

Zac's (E) Elastic Slingshot
The tooltip will now show his charge-up time is over 0.9/1/1.1/1.2/1.3 seconds relative to ranking the skill up. This is because the max distance he can travel increases per rank, therefore taking more time to charge.

Karma's Kimono!
The Kimono gods have heard us! Karma classes it up with an actual kimono for her Sakura skin! I don't know about you all, but I think this looks so much better! Ququroon talks a little more about this on the forum, and mentions the awesome Rioters that made her kimono a reality!

"So as GrumpyMonkey, IronStylus and ohmikegoodness have explained, we had a few technical issues with Sakura Karma. Karma’s new animation set was rather pronounced, which meant a full dress was impractical. You’ve let us know how you felt about this, and there has been a bit of silence on our end. We didn’t want to say we could fix it if we couldn’t.

But we heard you, loud and clear. We agreed, she should be closer to her original Sakura concept. So XRayAlpha and JesterCapp busted their asses and made time to make this a reality. They, and us as a team, felt like there were more things we could do to make this work.

I feel like they totally nailed it out of the park."

Love the sakura prints at the bottom!

Comparison between Old ( left ) and New ( right )

Karma Tooltip Changes and Particles

Karma's Q, her Inner Flame, now has a 25% slow at all levels instead of the 15/20/25/30/35 as you rank it up.

The Mantra'd version of Karma's Q now has particles! So shiny.

Karma's W, Focused Resolve, had a minor tooltip fix. Instead of showing the old "Spirit Link" ability, it now properly lists "Focused Resolve."

Sizzurp 03-21-2013 07:52 PM


Originally Posted by Nihil679 (Post 1810428)
Karma on the other hand is a rework because her kit just doesn't work. Almost anything could be an upgrade.

Her actual kit works, she's just underrated, why? i don't know. :) .. you can **** every mid and top champ with just R+E>Q@early game, idk why they never nerfed her. Well, for me this upgrade is finally a huge nerf for Karma): i'll miss you tanky leblanc! :py56:

Kenzor 03-21-2013 08:10 PM


Originally Posted by 0asis (Post 1810496)
Her actual kit works, she's just underrated, why? i don't know. :) .. you can **** every mid and top champ with just R+E>Q@early game, idk why they never nerfed her. Well, for me this upgrade is finally a huge nerf for Karma)

R+E>Q would make you OOM early game. Actually you shouldn't even be able to reach mid champs with Q either, so you're stuck relying solely on E for harass. Top laners can just sustain and kill you when they're 6.

And then what do you do if you do get to late game? You become a high AP support, actually you might not be a high AP support but rather a high CDR support before that, since it's pretty much impossible to play old Karma without CDR.


Originally Posted by 0asis (Post 1810496)
i'll miss you tanky leblanc! :py56:


Mega 03-22-2013 12:06 AM

Surrender at 20: 03/21 PBE UPDATE - Udyr Changes, Zac Tweaks & Traditional Karma's Dress


PBE is still down.

Update on delay:
"Hey all,
Just wanted to let you know that we are having some internal network issues that are delaying the PBE patch.

We are working to get it up as soon as possible.

Thanks for your patience."

[Beep boop summoners! Dr. Frank filling in while Moobeat is at PAX]

A PBE patch has been deployed!

Continue reading to check out an interesting set of changes for Udyr, more tweaks to Zac and even more about Karma and her dress!

( Remember! PBE content is tentative and subject to change. The PBE is a TESTING server and just because something is being TESTED on the PBE doesn't mean it will make it to live. )

Balance Changes
Udyr got some pretty heavy changes in this patch. Server is still down but here is the info from the tool tips.


Monkey's Agility ( Passive ) now grants 5 movement speed per stack instead of 4% armor and magic resist.
Tiger Stance ( Q ) first attack bonus damage is now physical damage instead of magical damage.
Tiger Stance ( Q ) mana cost reduced to 50/46/42/38/34 from 55/50/45/40/35.
Turtle Stance (W ) mana cost reduced to 50/46/42/38/34 from 55/50/45/40/35.
Turtle Stance ( W ) shield value increased to 60/100/140/180/220 from 60/95/130/165/200.
Turtle Stane ( W) no longer restores mana and now only restores HP.
Turtle Stance ( W ) no longer says that it can't crit ( meaning it can likely now deal critical strikes ).
Bear Stance ( E ) movement speed bonus increased to 15/20/25/30/35 from 15/18/21/24/27.
Bear Stance ( E ) movement speed bonus DURATION decreased to 2/2.3/2.5/2.8/3 from 2/2.5/3/3.5/4.
Bear Stance ( E ) mana cost reduced to 50/46/42/38/34 from 55/50/45/40/35.
Phoenix Stance ( R ) now triggers on first attack and every third attack instead of just every third attack.
Phoenix Stance ( R ) mana cost reduced to 50/46/42/38/34 from 55/50/45/40/35.
Phoenix Stance ( R ) passive AP ratio increased to .45 AP from .25 AP.
Phoenix Stance ( R ) activate AP ratio reduced to .2 AP from .25 AP.

Unstable Matter ( W ) base damage lowered to 40/55/70/85/100 damage from 40/60/80/100/120
Unstable Matter ( W ) % damage increased to 4/5/6/7/8 from 4/4.5/5/5.5/6 damage.
Let's Bounce! ( R ) now also "reduces the duration ofstuns,slows,taunts,fears,silences, blinds and immobilizes by 75 %" while active.

Karma Splash Art and Dress
While it's not very exciting considering we've know what it looks like for a while now, Karma's new default splash art has been added to the files.

Also it looks like Ququroon has struck again! Traditional Karma seems to have her fancy dress back!

Mega 03-23-2013 11:26 PM

Well I finally got to test her out myself. She doesn't feel like Karma anymore... :/

I posted this in the Karma Ability Rework thread on the PBE forums. My opinions comparing her old self to her new self.


My thoughts so far...

***Note playing her as a support, and not in that many games yet***

---Her Mantra'd skills don't really feel like "Ultimates" to me still. She's still too dependent upon AP to be a normal support type character like Sona or Nami that don't need AP to be effective.

---Her Passive...I really miss the extra AP you were given depending on how much HP you had, is there no way you could incorporate that somewhere in her new kit? Playing her as a support where you don't build that much (if any) AP was where the free AP from her old passive helped a lot.

The new version of her passive honestly has little use to me when you're focusing on assisting your team and not attacking the enemy team.

---Her Q doesn't feel like it fits her anymore. Her old one used to hit everything in a cone in front of her, but her new Q detonates even if goes anywhere next to a minion if I'm aiming for a champion. Not to mention you can't heal your team with it anymore. Maybe somehow take her old Q and make it look like energy in a cone instead of throwing fans? Or maybe I'm just bad at using skill shots

---Her W feels pretty useless to me besides the root at the end of it. Maybe if the team heal was moved to this somehow I would use it more, but like the old Karma I don't use it hardly at all. At least the old one you could use on allies and move around the map faster. What if you made the mantra version almost like Morgana's ultimate? Where it attaches to any nearby enemies and roots for the # seconds or whatever? That would make it feel more ultimate-y to me at least...

---Her E is about the only thing that reminds me of the old Karma. Being able to protect yourself or an ally right before you/they die and giving a chance to kill the opponent before they kill you. The speed boost moved from W to this is a bit weird though. The mantra version is probably my favorite out of her whole kit now since it shields and speed boosts EVERYONE around the target it is used on.

***THE ONLY problem I have with her E is that the huge BOOM sound that the old mantra'd version had isn't on this one, so it doesn't sound as empowered to me when I use it.***

---Her R honestly should have been left alone. One charge per team fight really doesn't feel right when you're so used to being able to shoot an AoE spell + heal the team, then shield someone that also damages the enemies around them. So just a question about her R then. Why did you decide to lower it to 1 instead of being able to hold 2 at a time? I know that her passive helps cool it down faster, but the base cooldown is a lot higher than the old version. If her mantra'd spells aren't dealing that much damage to enemies, I don't see why she shouldn't be able to hold 2 still.


Anyway I might just be playing her the wrong way, but these are my opinions of the new Karma playing her how I play her on the live server as a "normal" support.

Nihil679 03-24-2013 03:42 PM

Karma is no longer a support, she's a support mage like Morgana... and kind of Kayle. I guess. Zilean as well.
In summary, a utility AP caster. You work as the team's primary AP, but you are used more for the utility you can provide more than your damage output.
Though honestly? I don't even think her current skillset does that. From what I'm reading, she only has ONE support skill and one utility spell which you can find on any other AP caster.

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