New Champion, Quinn

[Veloze]

Originally Posted by 0asis

League of the Ruined King yo

Too good not to build on everyone.

[Kenzor]

Played her quite a few games during free week and I have to say, this champion is in need of a buff and/or hotfixes (this isn't even related to the boring kit discussion I posted in a different thread).

Passive: Stupidly random, it's like dodge chance all over again.
Q: Slow projectile speed and casting animation, and it interferes with AA animation.

W: I'm not sure but I'm not feeling Quinn's attack speed boost from passive procs at all, it might be because her passive proc has a different animation. Eh Idk.

E: This skill is fun, but that's all and it's pretty contradictory. If you're using it to catch up to someone running away you still have to walk quite a distance after casting the skill, the animation is very long too = not good for an ADC. It's a gap closer that doesn't...actually close the gap. Since it's a very slow dash it can also get interrupted fairly easily too, and then there's also the problem with using it on a target who flashes...GL. The slow is a decaying slow too so it's not as good as it could be. Putting an ADC in melee range is contradictory anyway.

R: Horribly contradictory ulti. Stupid design with the 80% move speed, people are just going to hold onto their ulti CD and use it to escape bad situations just like they did with Rengar. Also very disappointed that Valor shares cooldowns with Quinn (another contradiction), there could've been quite some potential if they had separate cooldowns. The huge attack speed buff is cool but...melee range and can't proc passive, oh look a champion who heavily relies on procing her passive but then her ulti doesn't let her proc her passive wut.

and of course, her damage is garbage when she's not proccing her passive (then again her passive is random anyway). Similar to Vayne as I expected, except Vayne has a reliable proc and doesn't do total garbage damage without it either.

Contradictory design, everywhere.

I usually instabuy AD carries, but as I didn't have enough I decided to wait it out a while but after playing her I think I'll just save my IP for Zac or Lissandra.

My 2 Cents.

[Destroyer68]

I agree I main AD and i literally played a single game with quinn and thought she was horrible in every way.

[Tardar]

Originally Posted by Kenzor

Played her quite a few games during free week and I have to say, this champion is in need of a buff and/or hotfixes (this isn't even related to the boring kit discussion I posted in a different thread).

Passive: Stupidly random, it's like dodge chance all over again.
Q: Slow projectile speed and casting animation, and it interferes with AA animation.

W: I'm not sure but I'm not feeling Quinn's attack speed boost from passive procs at all, it might be because her passive proc has a different animation. Eh Idk.

E: This skill is fun, but that's all and it's pretty contradictory. If you're using it to catch up to someone running away you still have to walk quite a distance after casting the skill, the animation is very long too = not good for an ADC. It's a gap closer that doesn't...actually close the gap. Since it's a very slow dash it can also get interrupted fairly easily too, and then there's also the problem with using it on a target who flashes...GL. The slow is a decaying slow too so it's not as good as it could be. Putting an ADC in melee range is contradictory anyway.

R: Horribly contradictory ulti. Stupid design with the 80% move speed, people are just going to hold onto their ulti CD and use it to escape bad situations just like they did with Rengar. Also very disappointed that Valor shares cooldowns with Quinn (another contradiction), there could've been quite some potential if they had separate cooldowns. The huge attack speed buff is cool but...melee range and can't proc passive, oh look a champion who heavily relies on procing her passive but then her ulti doesn't let her proc her passive wut.

and of course, her damage is garbage when she's not proccing her passive (then again her passive is random anyway). Similar to Vayne as I expected, except Vayne has a reliable proc and doesn't do total garbage damage without it either.

Contradictory design, everywhere.

I usually instabuy AD carries, but as I didn't have enough I decided to wait it out a while but after playing her I think I'll just save my IP for Zac or Lissandra.

My 2 Cents.

I agree with a lot of points but then I disagree with a bunch. It's not contradictory so much as it is counterproductive for the most part. She's one of the handful of caster-like carries (Vayne, Varus) and being reliant on her abilities can be a problem.

Passive: This is probably where I have the biggest complaints since I've been fighting opponents and Valor will go ahead and mark the minion next to me as vulnerable and I'm just like okay. You then have the problem of it doing diddly-squat while Valor as well. But then part of me agrees with it not proc'ing since Valor has so much more AS than Quinn does.

Q: It's slow, true, but then again it also Blinds. I mean, I don't think you're going to be poking with it...? No problem with it as Valor.

W: It does proc an AS bonus when you hit a vulnerable target. Free AS is fine as Valor.

E: Bigger slow, faster leap, make her scoot back half of her range. That'd make it easier for her to keep up.

R: Lower the cooldown. I honestly can't say Valor is gamebreaking enough to warrant a 140 cooldown at rank 1. And I honestly can't say Skyfall is worth a 140 second cooldown either. I also feel like it needs to do more than just give her a finisher and a huge AS steroid since Valor's fighting in melee range and Quinn's pretty squishy.

She could be a lot better if they fixed that "random" element of her passive and made her ultimate have a lower cooldown.

[Nihil679]

I found Quinn to be one of the more enjoyable AD carries I've played. Her skillset gives a fresher take on AD carries than any other AD carry before her.

The few changes Quinn needs are that her passive animation needs to come out faster, because Valor takes ****ing forever to properly mark a target, and that her Q ability should activate her passive on the primary target. It's a little silly that it doesn't and would remove a lot of the "random" element of her passive because you can now direct it.

[Faith]

Originally Posted by Tardar

I agree with a lot of points but then I disagree with a bunch. It's not contradictory so much as it is counterproductive for the most part. She's one of the handful of caster-like carries (Vayne, Varus) and being reliant on her abilities can be a problem.

Passive: This is probably where I have the biggest complaints since I've been fighting opponents and Valor will go ahead and mark the minion next to me as vulnerable and I'm just like okay. You then have the problem of it doing diddly-squat while Valor as well. But then part of me agrees with it not proc'ing since Valor has so much more AS than Quinn does.

Q: It's slow, true, but then again it also Blinds. I mean, I don't think you're going to be poking with it...? No problem with it as Valor.

W: It does proc an AS bonus when you hit a vulnerable target. Free AS is fine as Valor.

E: Bigger slow, faster leap, make her scoot back half of her range. That'd make it easier for her to keep up.

R: Lower the cooldown. I honestly can't say Valor is gamebreaking enough to warrant a 140 cooldown at rank 1. And I honestly can't say Skyfall is worth a 140 second cooldown either. I also feel like it needs to do more than just give her a finisher and a huge AS steroid since Valor's fighting in melee range and Quinn's pretty squishy.

She could be a lot better if they fixed that "random" element of her passive and made her ultimate have a lower cooldown.

Q: Good for trading/poke (Q+auto) if you have support with hard cc or shield except vs graves or caitlyn.

W: Really nice bonus in aspd, especially when you hit marked unit. Very strong for trading. Combine with something like a phage or BT and good things happen.

E: Very situational skill, but great for setting up ganks and chasing (bypassing minions as well). Slow debuff, but not much usage outside of it. Best used as a tool for setting up ganks, or after you mark with Q, E, then proc with w and trade (strong poke).

R: Strong burst and chasing ability, with some minor downsides. Best used to initiate on half hp champ or as finisher. To initiate just use like 2s before, blow skillset and swap back to normal then proceed to chase. Don't recommend to use as initiate tool on full hp champ unless you have taric, janna, thresh, or sona as support. Also great disengage tool and escaping ganks.

[Kenzor]

Originally Posted by Faith

Q: Good for trading/poke (Q+auto) if you have support with hard cc or shield except vs graves or caitlyn.

W: Really nice bonus in aspd, especially when you hit marked unit. Very strong for trading. Combine with something like a phage or BT and good things happen.

E: Very situational skill, but great for setting up ganks and chasing (bypassing minions as well). Slow debuff, but not much usage outside of it. Best used as a tool for setting up ganks, or after you mark with Q, E, then proc with w and trade (strong poke).

R: Strong burst and chasing ability, with some minor downsides. Best used to initiate on half hp champ or as finisher. To initiate just use like 2s before, blow skillset and swap back to normal then proceed to chase. Don't recommend to use as initiate tool on full hp champ unless you have taric, janna, thresh, or sona as support. Also great disengage tool and escaping ganks.

Q: Wat. Quinn is the only champ that can trade well with a hard CC support now?

W: "especially when you hit a marked unit"? You HAVE to hit a marked unit to get the bonus attack speed. Combined with BT you say? No shit, she's an ADC. Phage is a bad item for ADCs that don't benefit from Triforce/Iceborn much, Quinn doesn't spam skills for Sheen procs like Ezreal or Corki so those items aren't good for her.

E: NO NO NO, ADCs SHOULD NOT be the one to initiate a gank with a gap closer, the only time this would be a good idea is when the enemy laners are almost dead or if you're ahead (but even if you're ahead it's risky) but in that case why would you need a gank anyway? I don't even want to say it's good for following up ganks since it puts you out of range which is the complete opposite of what you need during a gank.

R: Burst? What. Valor form is all about small, fast attacks over time. Quinn is the one with burst with her passive and E proc combo. I already mentioned the disengage part.

[Destroyer68]

Originally Posted by Kenzor

Q: Wat. Quinn is the only champ that can trade well with a hard CC support now?

W: "especially when you hit a marked unit"? You HAVE to hit a marked unit to get the bonus attack speed. Combined with BT you say? No shit, she's an ADC. Phage is a bad item for ADCs that don't benefit from Triforce/Iceborn much, Quinn doesn't spam skills for Sheen procs like Ezreal or Corki so those items aren't good for her.

E: NO NO NO, ADCs SHOULD NOT be the one to initiate a gank with a gap closer, the only time this would be a good idea is when the enemy laners are almost dead or if you're ahead (but even if you're ahead it's risky) but in that case why would you need a gank anyway? I don't even want to say it's good for following up ganks since it puts you out of range which is the complete opposite of what you need during a gank.

R: Burst? What. Valor form is all about small, fast attacks over time. Quinn is the one with burst with her passive and E proc combo. I already mentioned the disengage part.

I agree with each one of your points here.

[Nihil679]

Have you considered the fact that Quinn might be an attempt to change the way you think about AD carries? Just because no other AD carry has initiated in the past, should that hold you back from trying it now?

"Burst" can refer to different things, in this case, Valor offers a "burst" in damage output because of his always-on passive from W. This results in a burst amount of damage that you wouldn't have otherwise as Quinn.

[Kenzor]

Originally Posted by Nihil679

Have you considered the fact that Quinn might be an attempt to change the way you think about AD carries? Just because no other AD carry has initiated in the past, should that hold you back from trying it now?

"Burst" can refer to different things, in this case, Valor offers a "burst" in damage output because of his always-on passive from W. This results in a burst amount of damage that you wouldn't have otherwise as Quinn.

Quinn is an AD carry designed like a bruiser, not the best of ways to go about changing the way I think about AD carries, since bruisers and AD carries are literally polar opposite play styles. Initiating with a gap closer as an AD carry is the same as getting grabbed by Blitzcrank, i.e. it's not good. The only difference here being that the enemy support (or Blitzcrank) doesn't even need to use their CDs to bring you in the middle of their team.

The term "burst" is debatable yes.

[Nihil679]

Simply because the design is different from the standard doesn't mean it is bad. It is an attempt at changing the meta, just as Xypherous had done with Riven's design.

Quinn's design is that of a dueling, assassin AD carry. Nothing about her says, "This is a champion you want to pick for teamfights."
The AOE on her Q is minimal. Her passive only works on one enemy. Her E chases down a single target. Her R gives her increased fighting capabilities on one target, although the second cast makes it a nice teamfight finisher.
From what I understand of her design, Quinn is a mid-game champion that excels at pushing her advantage when you have it. She has great laning potential and is better off as a kill lane than a simple "farm to power" AD carry. Her design appears contradictory only because of the static and closed definition of AD carries. That is why she is designed like a bruiser, because the mindset is meant to appeal to people that play bruisers now playing AD carries. Like bruisers, both have mid-game power and strong laning phases and more focused on beating down the enemy more than simply farming.

[Tardar]

I honestly just wish they'd take the randomness off her passive (or at least make it so that it'll target what you're fighting over anything else) and decrease the cooldown of her ultimate.

[Nihil679]

It's supposed to be priority-based and focus on your target, the lowest health champion, or the lowest health minion. Probably good idea to test and send in a report.

[Veloze]

One thing I don't like about Quinn is that she's just unremarkable. There's nothing she can do that another ADC can't do better, besides suiciding into the enemy team I guess.

Her low AA range definitely doesn't help her either.