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11-28-2011   #1 (permalink)
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So Dominion is probably the only thing I've been playing now cause I'm pretty much bored with Summoner's Rift. ;u;

Too many noobs getting scores like 3/12/4 and 0/9/2. It's so disappointing how people can be such noobs at level 30. I really just don't understand anymore lol.
 
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11-28-2011   #2 (permalink)
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Well it's understandable if they have those scores and they have like <10 dominion games played total, since dominion play style is much different classic and people are still getting used to the strategies and such.

However, it starts to get sad when you are a 20 wins dominion player vs a 300 wins dominion player who plays like it's their first time.
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11-28-2011   #3 (permalink)
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I probably play like that too depending on the champion. Some are just so inferior in dominion.
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11-28-2011   #4 (permalink)
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It really makes me sad. :'D
 
11-28-2011   #5 (permalink)
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ITT people still thinking that KDA matters in Dominion.
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11-28-2011   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil679
ITT people still thinking that KDA matters in Dominion.
It doesn't necessarily matter in terms of feeding exp/gold, but when you're 0/9/1 it's a pretty good indication that you've been doing pretty much nothing besides dying (that's ~180 secs spent dead, 3 minutes.)
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11-28-2011   #7 (permalink)
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Are they back-capping to mediocre success (as in neutralizing or complete capture)?
Are they going back and forth harassing bottom?
Are they keeping the enemy from taking Storm Shield?
Are they point-focused and spending all their time during teamfights as the guy that blocks the enemy turret so that you can safely kill the enemies?
Are they pushing lanes?

There's a lot of "jobs" you can do to win a Dominion game and have a complete crap KDA. I'd like to see a replay of what they're doing with the time they are alive before making a one-sided judgment of "They have a bad KDA, therefore they are bad players."

It's dumb to use KDA as a gauge for player skills in Classic, it still is in Dominion.
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11-28-2011   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil679
Are they back-capping to mediocre success (as in neutralizing or complete capture)?
Are they going back and forth harassing bottom?
Are they keeping the enemy from taking Storm Shield?
Are they point-focused and spending all their time during teamfights as the guy that blocks the enemy turret so that you can safely kill the enemies?
Are they pushing lanes?

There's a lot of "jobs" you can do to win a Dominion game and have a complete crap KDA. I'd like to see a replay of what they're doing with the time they are alive before making a one-sided judgment of "They have a bad KDA, therefore they are bad players."

It's dumb to use KDA as a gauge for player skills in Classic, it still is in Dominion.
I can agree if you have an "okay" (ie, lower than perfection) such as 3/4/2 or 9/12/5 because that shows you are definitely contributing in some way. But a 0/9/2? That means you are doing something wrong. 3/12/4 I can forgive to a degree (if we win), but a 0/9/2 means you are doing something wrong. If you're defending, that means you've probably lost your point a lot or nearly lost it. I suppose it may mean you're split-capping pretty well, but at the same time, to get no kills and that few assists in my eyes is quite strange.

While a KDA shouldn't measure one's skill, having a horrible one does show that you're doing something wrong (or that your opponent is just flat-out better than you). Not to mention 9 deaths on Dominion is just as bad, if not worse, than 9 deaths on Rift.
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11-28-2011   #9 (permalink)
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How can it be worse? 12 deaths in Dominion are not equivalent to 12 deaths in Classic. There is hardly any farm, you are not losing CS. The respawn timer is shorter, you are wasting less time dead in Dominion. There is only one "global" objective equivalent to Dragon and Baron, but even then, it fails to live up to being as important as either. You cannot contest it as a team either.

Again, I'd prefer to see a replay of how and what this person did before I call them a bad player simply because their KDA looks bad.
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11-28-2011   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil679
How can it be worse? 12 deaths in Dominion are not equivalent to 12 deaths in Classic. There is hardly any farm, you are not losing CS. The respawn timer is shorter, you are wasting less time dead in Dominion. There is only one "global" objective equivalent to Dragon and Baron, but even then, it fails to live up to being as important as either. You cannot contest it as a team either.

Again, I'd prefer to see a replay of how and what this person did before I call them a bad player simply because their KDA looks bad.
Because you snowball faster and harder in Dominion. You get a comparable amount of Gold and EXP, which when coupled with one player getting a large amount of kills (especially a hard hitter such as a carry, super-carry, or Akali), then that one player can basically just run circles around the team that gave him/her kills.

Yes you spend less time dead so the "you're useless because you're dead" factor is significantly reduced. But also at the same time, while the respawn time is shorter, the game durations are reduced as well.

The words of the inexperienced: Dying does not matter as much on Dominion.
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11-28-2011   #11 (permalink)
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Who is to say that it is one player getting the kills though? You're including factors that just lead back to "Hey, show me a replay."

In that same argument you use, I could say that the player is feeding a negative snowball champion and that their deaths might as well be executions.

The idea behind Dominion was, as far as I've heard from Rioters, if everyone had close to equal farm, levels, etc. - that the only independent variable was solely ITEMS, CHAMPIONS, SPELLS, TEAM, ETC., i.e., PLAYER-SPECIFIC FACTORS - how would they fair? Dominion is essentially hyper-teamfight Classic that skips the laning period and goes straight for level 3 teamfights.
Keeping this in mind, how do you snowball in Dominion? All players gain gold over time, experience over time, they're all loaded on buffs. Unless you having one champion just eats up EVERY SINGLE ENEMY TEAM MEMBER EVERY TIME IN A TEAMFIGHT, there significance of "snowball" is much less in Dominion than in Classic.
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I agree with dot that, without a replay, you can't say much about the score of a 0/9/4 person.
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11-28-2011   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil679
Who is to say that it is one player getting the kills though? You're including factors that just lead back to "Hey, show me a replay."

In that same argument you use, I could say that the player is feeding a negative snowball champion and that their deaths might as well be executions.

The idea behind Dominion was, as far as I've heard from Rioters, if everyone had close to equal farm, levels, etc. - that the only independent variable was solely ITEMS, CHAMPIONS, SPELLS, TEAM, ETC., i.e., PLAYER-SPECIFIC FACTORS - how would they fair? Dominion is essentially hyper-teamfight Classic that skips the laning period and goes straight for level 3 teamfights.
Keeping this in mind, how do you snowball in Dominion? All players gain gold over time, experience over time, they're all loaded on buffs. Unless you having one champion just eats up EVERY SINGLE ENEMY TEAM MEMBER EVERY TIME IN A TEAMFIGHT, there significance of "snowball" is much less in Dominion than in Classic.
Well okay, I suppose the kills aren't going to be shoved all onto one player. But even still, feeding the entire enemy team or a large portion of the enemy team is probably worse than just feeding one person. I do also think Cloud was exaggerating and making up the stats for these people and was just generalizing a bad player.

I don't know of a negative snowball champion aside from maybe supports. As far as I understand, there isn't any champion that doesn't become more useful with more gold and more EXP.

If they wanted equal levels, then there would be no EXP gain other than the static EXP gain over-time. Snowballing is more prevalent in Dominion because of the smaller team fights and the value of excellent duelists over more sustained damage champions. Given the fact that you don't really farm much, most gold comes from champion kills and capping points as well as the static gold gain. When an enemy champion (or even you?) can get a consistent gold and EXP advantage over your opponent, you're bound to fare better overall. Since the games don't last as long as Classic games, you're also less likely to hit that "you rebound because you're all equal level equal gold now" (e.g., those games that go beyond 30-40 mins. max duration). If you rebound, it's because your enemy was reliant upon killing as a source of Nexus damage rather than capping and holding.

What I'm getting that is that because there is static EXP and Gold gain and little farm, it's harder to make a level/Gold comeback in Dominion than in Classic where you can hopefully just play it safe (i.e., not push, overextend, use them wards to hopefully catch incoming ganks). In Dominion, there are no wards, you have vision everywhere other than in the jungle, and there is no "play it safe" option. It's fight or die.
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11-28-2011   #14 (permalink)
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Negative snowball:
Amumu
Blitzcrank
Leona
Shen
Shyvana
Every support.
I don't know what they're going to do with that gold. Get hit by you more often?

There's a reason the snowball masteries (extra gold per kill in Defense, extra experience per kill in Utility) say reduced effect. If that's not indicating that they reduced the effects of snowballing to achieve previously stated equality, then I don't know what will. So while you can "snowball," I am pretty sure it requires something more than one person feeding 9 kills to another, and that is, as I've said, the entire team dying to one person, time and time again.

Have you not seen a Dominion game comeback? The first week of Dominion, League of Legends General Discussion had multiple "AMAZING COMEBACKS!" thread filled with 1 - 0 and 0 - 1 screenshots. Even now, comebacks are not difficult to come by in Dominion and it's not because a team was reliant on kills over turrets. They stated that kills stop influencing Nexus health at a number WELL before 1.

Defensive play is simple in Dominion. You capture 3 and hold them.
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11-29-2011   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil679
How can it be worse? 12 deaths in Dominion are not equivalent to 12 deaths in Classic. There is hardly any farm, you are not losing CS. The respawn timer is shorter, you are wasting less time dead in Dominion. There is only one "global" objective equivalent to Dragon and Baron, but even then, it fails to live up to being as important as either. You cannot contest it as a team either.

Again, I'd prefer to see a replay of how and what this person did before I call them a bad player simply because their KDA looks bad.
Lol this. It's worse because you're feeding. Just because it takes less time for you to spawn doesn't mean it's worth any less. CS is still important, but not as much as it does in SR. More gold means you get your items faster. Players just don't concentrate as much on this because there are more important goals and Dominion is just really more team-based than SR.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesie
The words of the inexperienced: Dying does not matter as much on Dominion.
Lol I totally agree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesie
I do also think Cloud was exaggerating and making up the stats for these people and was just generalizing a bad player.
Yes, I was.



Why can't you people just understand that if you're 0/9/2 for a game, then you did badly. Regardless if your role is capturing or holding, you're not supposed to have that kind of score, especially if you're level 30. Seriously? It's just unacceptable.

Last edited by Scathach; 11-29-2011 at 05:33 AM.
 
11-29-2011   #16 (permalink)
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So you're telling me all the times I've won with a troll backdoor-er teammate in Classic with a score of 0 - x - x have been bad players?
And that all the times I've lost because of a troll backdoor-er enemy with a similar score is because they're a bad player?

There are a severe shortage of minions in Dominion compared to Classic. Even if you were a pusher (i.e., the only people that actually get CS full-time), I doubt your CS to go any higher than 100-120, but I seriously wonder if anyone even makes it past 70.

A point I've left out up until now, but 9 deaths means "I'm worth no gold." ESPECIALLY without a single kill and only two assists.
Again, why does death matter in either Classic or Dominion?
Because you're giving gold to the enemy team, you're dragging your team down one player in teamfights.
Dominion has reduced gold per champion kill, so death matters less in Dominion than Classic.
If you're backdoor capturing, you've essentially given the enemy team "come get me, or lose this." That is pulling away at least ONE enemy from teamfights, making the odds even.
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11-29-2011   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil679
So you're telling me all the times I've won with a troll backdoor-er teammate in Classic with a score of 0 - x - x have been bad players?
And that all the times I've lost because of a troll backdoor-er enemy with a similar score is because they're a bad player?
Let's say Person A has a score of 0/9/2. And his role was a capturer. Then Person A didn't really do a good job. He could've done better if he didn't die as much if all he does anyway is capture. The point of a capturer is to distract the team, forcing them to go for him. But if he keeps dying and if Person A's team is winning, then he's wasting his time if all he does is he keeps dying. A good capturer would go in, and at least neutralize the turret and get away without dying.

Besides, capturing isn't all that a capturer should do. He should have the ability to participate in team fights or ganks. He should be able to 1 vs 1 squishies and people with low HP by the middle of the game.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil679
There are a severe shortage of minions in Dominion compared to Classic. Even if you were a pusher (i.e., the only people that actually get CS full-time), I doubt your CS to go any higher than 100-120, but I seriously wonder if anyone even makes it past 70.
Uhh, okay? Doesn't change the fact that the money you gain from them is important. When you get the chance, you kill them and push.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil679
A point I've left out up until now, but 9 deaths means "I'm worth no gold." ESPECIALLY without a single kill and only two assists.
Again, why does death matter in either Classic or Dominion?
Because you're giving gold to the enemy team, you're dragging your team down one player in teamfights.
Dominion has reduced gold per champion kill, so death matters less in Dominion than Classic.
If you're backdoor capturing, you've essentially given the enemy team "come get me, or lose this." That is pulling away at least ONE enemy from teamfights, making the odds even.
If you're saying that death doesn't matter, then everybody should just choose high mobile characters and squishies that move fast to capture things and ignore team fights. But no, they don't.

"I'm worth no gold." Lol. If all you do is die, then the game is practically a 4 vs 5.

The odds aren't even if you've already fed. You've already given them the advantage of capturing points once you've died. Given them gold and experience.
 
11-29-2011   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudBiscuit

The odds aren't even if you've already fed. You've already given them the advantage once you've died. Given them gold and experience.
This.


This is the reason why dying ****s up entire teams, almost always feeders don't think about pushing lanes/capturing/backdooring so they just end your game.
 
11-29-2011   #19 (permalink)
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Kenzor has a brilliant futureKenzor has a brilliant futureKenzor has a brilliant futureKenzor has a brilliant futureKenzor has a brilliant futureKenzor has a brilliant futureKenzor has a brilliant futureKenzor has a brilliant futureKenzor has a brilliant futureKenzor has a brilliant futureKenzor has a brilliant future
IGN: Kenzor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal
dominion is boring, you can't troll
play AD annie
still win game
successful troll?
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Path of Exile Ambush League - Lvl 93 Ball Lightning Witch - zKenzorz
League of Legends (EU WEST)[Active] - Kenzorz
NA GrandChase - Kenzor
 

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