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01-10-2011   #1 (permalink)
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Default Elemental Trouble (Water folks, get in hurr)

What a surprise, Ms Fickle McFickle can't stick to one element - AGAIN

From what I've seen, all the elements have damage that is very similar to one another, the only difference is amount of hits/balance factor. There's also 100-500 more damage in between, which would result in 1k-2k higher crits.

As of now, I'm having a problem figuring out how to use water. I really want to use it, especially since the crown works for bards too. It's also hella pretty, and it's 5th tier skill sis possibly the best of them all due to how it works (6 monsters, no balance factor, hits 4 times, hits hard since it's only 4 times as apposed to 5/6 like wind/earth, shoots straight forward but also upward and downward). So basically, how do any of you water EMs out there use water, KB effectively, AND not resort to ice storm usage? Ice storm is a party killer, ya know. I think I'm missing something since I can't seem to get it down right. :|

I'm still bouncing in between earth/fire/wind, but I like water the best - so if I can use it correctly, then bouncing-be-gone! D:
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01-11-2011   #2 (permalink)
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okay uhms your a sorc right? so i'm actually a bard well im speaking from my opinion okay so don't have any high hopes. So once you got your Water skills, you could try adding the masteries. Ice storm is actually rather useless except that it increases water stats a lil so you might wanna add that too. Uhms try to get a water elemental. a +0 at the very least. And then get a good stone wiv min/max water dmg. try to get a 40/40 [im using 32/30 i think but i have sound of water element so thats not a prob for me] and then weapons you can try to like get min max magic damage i think. [cant really remember. havent gone on for a while cors of sch] then you can get the magic set and coli accessory of mana. If you wanna KB more and depend on luck i suggest coli accessory of luck. If you think crit is more important then get the accessories of luck. And yea so uhms lets see...

And try to learn to combo with water as it reduces chances of allowing the monster to attack. Try using this method weak>strong>weak>strong>strong
well example:
Bubblebubble> Ice storm> ice fear> Hailstone>shattered berg.
well thats just an example. Note: To combo with ice storm is not impossible, you'll just have to make sure ur magic accuracy is good in case it misses and it breaks ur combo.
So for example you are using my example of combo-ing so you would press bubblebubble. and before the skill even finishes, IMMEDIATELY press ice storm. That would make a smoother combo and stuffs and the timing is VERY important. If ur ping isn't good then good luck to you. Mine is Grade B so if you are Grade B/A then there shudn't be much of a prob for you. Hope it helps 8D
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01-11-2011   #3 (permalink)
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I'm not an EM but I'll try to give some advice, as a bard who leveled water when I was a wizard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilPhenyl
So basically, how do any of you water EMs out there use water, KB effectively, AND not resort to ice storm usage? Ice storm is a party killer, ya know.
The only reason not to use ice storm is if you're in a party, in which case your party members should be making up for the lack of KB by not using it. Otherwise, you shouldn't have to use too much filler in between your strong skills, since the cooldowns are pretty short (bubble bubble II and hailstorm I are nice, ice fear I may be depending on if you KB with it). I don't know much of EMs but I think you also have other skills to include in the mix. If you have magic concentration, ice storm and hailstorm go well with JAS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by utauhoshino
Ice storm is actually rather useless except that it increases water stats a lil so you might wanna add that too.
...What? Ice storm doesn't add water stats. And it's not useless, it's a nice stun and does a ton of damage with no balance factor, but it's not good to use in parties since the enemies are invulnerable during the stun (but if you're alone, you're doing your animation during the invulnerability anyway so it doesn't matter). You need it anyway to get the stronger ice skills.
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01-11-2011   #4 (permalink)
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Hmmm back when I played...

Water was quite strong for a sorcerer, especially PVP-wise.

There shouldn't be any problem KBing with water, unless your gear is really really bad. The only disadvantage is the range of water skills. This was easily amended by the use of wind-walk.

Ice-storm wise, I only ever used it if mobs got too close. It's definitely not too hard to combo with hailstones, ice-fear II and bubblebubble II alone. If i remember correctly I always used Hailstone II first (due to long CD), then icefearII, bubble, hailstone, icefearII again. Icestorm II to finish off mobs.

Quite sure with the new 3rd job skills and stuff it would be a lot easier. Windwalk would be a must of you can still get it in 3rd job.

That's all I know.



edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by utauhoshino
Try using this method weak>strong>weak>strong>strong
well example:
Bubblebubble> Ice storm> ice fear> Hailstone>shattered berg.
well thats just an example.
It's better to start off with a strong, high damage/high cooldown skill. No point using 5 skills and overkilling when you can do it in 2-3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by utauhoshino
Note: To combo with ice storm is not impossible, you'll just have to make sure ur magic accuracy is good in case it misses and it breaks ur combo.
Quite sure icestorm has a combo breaking cast time, unless they made it easier to combo.
But regarding the OP, party wise it has it's pros and cons.
Ever thought about saving your friend's butt in a huge mob? Yeahhh not too bad to have either.

Last edited by ZeR; 01-11-2011 at 05:35 AM.
 
01-11-2011   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeR
There shouldn't be any problem KBing with water, unless your gear is really really bad. The only disadvantage is the range of water skills.
I'm easily one of the better Elemental Masters gear wise in the game. I'd be even more of a monster if I actually used foods or syrups like the other ones. Even then, my tier 1 water skills STILL had trouble KBing, especially Ice Fear I - god it's damage made me cringe. (However, I've come to terms with what a magic user is - if they aren't criting, they aren't being useful). So I just got to get more crit I guess, as well as TMRD.

But I guess the TL;DR of this is "Use a bunch of the skills and use ice storm if you have to, use a weakweak skill or don't do anything." I was hoping for a way around it, but I guess that's the price for having pretty magic and a sexy 5th tier.

/will probably have to stick with fire (which is super awesome) until I get enough cash for a brownie, then. :<

Weeeell, thanks for the replies.
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01-11-2011   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeR
Quite sure icestorm has a combo breaking cast time, unless they made it easier to combo.
They made it easier to combo awhile ago. Ice storm doesn't break combos anymore.
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01-15-2011   #7 (permalink)
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Water 5th actually hits five times. Its range is amazing, as it reaches slightly upward and very far downward. Be sure to abuse its downward range. It allows you to hit monsters on platforms BELOW you.

I'm quad element and I find my damage to be reasonable even with water alone. Your expectations might just be too high. Anyone who can knock back Rank 3 monsters (your level) with Ice Fear I or Cyclone Cutter I on a base hit is simply overpowered.

Ice Storm is one of the best moves in the game, so definitely don't ignore it. It cancels attacks from other players (trivia: it can even cancel your own Wind Blade if you do Ice Storm -> Wind Blade), but it can still be useful in parties as a life-saving skill (use it to delay huge mobs or hold off monsters so your party mates can grab a ladder). Also note that Rune of Meteo and Dark Hole both attack through Ice Storm, so now you have even more of a reason to use it in or out of a party. If you're fighting monsters like Fenrirs/Worsams, one Rune of Meteo + Ice Storm should be enough to take out a mob. It doesn't matter if it cancels everyone else's attacks then, because the monsters are going to drop dead after Rune anyway. Your party members have no reason to hit them. <_<

Knocking back is simple enough. You have Bubble Bubble II, Hailstone I and II, and Ice Fear II, in addition to the water meteor and Rune of Meteo. Use Bubble Bubble II and Ice Fear II first since they have shorter cooldowns. If you are solo, then you have no reason to skip Ice Storm. If you're in a party grinding somewhere like Coli, use your crown to get that 30-50% reduction on cooldowns. Should be enough to let you spam knockback skills that aren't Ice Storm. If you're grinding somewhere like Fenrirs/Worsams, use your meteor (pole) in the middle of combo strings.


By the way, Crowns only work for the person who cast them. Have tested and confirmed this myself.


If you still have issues knocking back, dual element is always an option. Getting a Coliseum dual stone will let you go water + another element without the need to switch stones. Keeping a strong knockback combo should be a non-issue then. My main advice would be to "relax". Water has a very nice rhythm to it, and it's best at delaying + back to back one-two combos.

Last edited by Mac2492; 01-15-2011 at 01:05 AM.
 

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