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11-17-2010   #1 (permalink)
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Default Bard or Sorc?

So one of my characters is a level 16 Wizard. I intended to become a water-based Sorceror, but the guild I'm in already has a wind Wizard. To balance things out, I decided I'd go with a Bard.

Early on, what is it important to focus on as far as skills, in this case?


topic change:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umby
Instead of making a new topic, I just edited this one, since it was just sitting there.

I think I'll take a break from my Meister once I reach close to lvl 100 to work on my Wizard. However, I'm wondering which class change is better for my playstyle. It might be an awkward request, but are there any guidelines/rules of thumb for deciding whether I should become a Bard/Minstrel or a Sorc/EM? I was originally going to become a Bard but given that I'm currently using a dual magic tree (Fire/Wind) skillset for leveling, I might be more Sorc oriented.

What do you guys think?
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Last edited by Umby; 01-07-2011 at 08:28 AM.
 
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11-17-2010   #2 (permalink)
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I wouldn't start off with water skills when making a wizard. The skills itself is slow since you only have access to 1~2 attacks.

For me, I learned Dagger skills since there are two trees for easier combo. I stayed as a Dagger until level 6x. Once I reached level 6x, I started to learn some Wind attacks with the Dagger to mix the killing combination.
It really helps since both Dagger and Wind skills have fast animations and decent damage.
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11-18-2010   #3 (permalink)
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Hmm, I had alread started putting skill points in the water magic tree...

edit: I went ahead and racked up the cash to reset. I'll try out daggers and wind magic.

Last edited by Umby; 11-18-2010 at 08:05 PM.
 
01-07-2011   #4 (permalink)
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Instead of making a new topic, I just edited this one, since it was just sitting there.

I think I'll take a break from my Meister once I reach close to lvl 100 to work on my Wizard. However, I'm wondering which class change is better for my playstyle. It might be an awkward request, but are there any guidelines/rules of thumb for deciding whether I should become a Bard/Minstrel or a Sorc/EM? I was originally going to become a Bard but given that I'm currently using a dual magic tree (Fire/Wind) skillset for leveling, I might be more Sorc oriented.

What do you guys think?
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01-07-2011   #5 (permalink)
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I always thought this was a pretty easy choice: Do you prefer pure offensive power (sorc) or great supportive skills (bard)? Bard is also nice if you're stuck inbetween, since you can be a hybrid or offensive bard to keep heals and/or buffs while still being damage-oriented. I like being support but I also love ice magic: I went with bard since they could do both.
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01-07-2011   #6 (permalink)
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Yeah, I was pretty much stuck in between, though it's more of a 60% leaning towards offensive, 40% leaning towards supportive type of thing. What's the general consensus on Hybrid/offensive bards? Are they effective at damage dealing? Are they common choices when making a Bard?
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01-07-2011   #7 (permalink)
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Bards are mainly seen as a healing slave /o/. Especially when you get to the point where you only coli to lvl up. In coli everyone just wants the bard to heal Q_Q. Though i was talking to a friend of mine that was minstrel that picked to be crit/offensive bard and he did hax damage. Imo any one [sorc/bard] can be "hax/good damage dealers" as long as they have the right equips. Bards can be = to sorc since ice skills do pretty good damage. But once again; you have to be nicely equipped to do so. Bards/Minstrels have nice buffs as well. The Hp,Def,Stat buffs are nice. They help your party a lot as well as yourself. Especially the HP & Def buff since bards can be squishy. And when you get to be a minstrel your buffs are wayyyy OP. Hp buff gives like 2k hp, def gives like... 1k more def. Nice stuff. Especially that monkey playing buff.. that increases your attack.. With that buff, my AP skill which throws a rock can do blank damage on a bamboo. [Doing blank damage on bamboo is fun 8'D]

For me the only reason i liked bard for the heals. But after getting my bard to lv134 i got bored .-. because my bard is super weaksauce with crap equips. So i made a sorc. I found sorc more fun... especially since i had higher dps compared to my bard. And i didn't really worry about healing since i was funded enough to buy spam pots ;3;

Last edited by Aubree; 01-07-2011 at 10:10 AM.
 
01-07-2011   #8 (permalink)
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Being a hybrid Bard is hard when you are low leveled with barely any skill points, especially in Colosseum.
Colosseum eventually becomes the new leveling ground for level 160+ players. So many Colosseum parties like a Bard who can heal high values, which kind of require going down the Purification tree. I don't know many high level parties that take low level Bards.

I'm currently a hybrid/offensive Minstrel but seriously, I never attack in Colosseum except with Fortissimo. I only use Ice skills to lure the White Wolves into the corner...

When grinding, it's better to be full offensive to deal the highest damage.
I never used points on the Defense buff. All I had as a Bard was Sound of Heart/Spirit for buffs. The rest was Group Guitar Heal, Evil Sound, Ice skills, and Crit tree.

PS Aubree: Voice of Holy Spirit (new name for Sound of Spirit) is 3k HP total, not 2k.
Minstrel's buff are hax though. Energetic Performance + Performance of Harmony gives crazy min/max buff.
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01-07-2011   #9 (permalink)
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If you like soloing and doing damage, consider Bard.

If you plan to party at all as a Bard, you will not be doing much attacks/damages at all. Even if you try, you might get kicked from you party if they're not competent enough to understand you can heal and do damage at the same time... (Which most people are in free games)

So, yeah. If you go offensive Bard, you're gonna' be stuck soloing. Bards are epic to party with, save a ton of pots and give awesome buffs, including a short-lasting nifty EXP. one.

Sorcs are definitely more powerful on the offensive front. Their Fire and Wind trees easily overpower offensive Bards. I'm going to assume that an epic geared water Sorc would easily do more damage than epic geared offensive Bard. It just makes sense.

But when I'M partying, I rarely invite Sorcs. I feel way more inclined to invite a WL, Blader, GS, Templar, or Bard over a Sorc any day. I'm not saying Sorcs aren't awesome, but, I just feel more comfortable with other jobs I guess. It's a sad truth. But maybe other people feel differently. XD
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01-07-2011   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirae
PS Aubree: Voice of Holy Spirit (new name for Sound of Spirit) is 3k HP total, not 2k.

Yea.. i didn't remember exactly how much it gave, so i was just guessing xD.

And also; Sorcs are the flashiest with their big shiny effects when using skills 8'D We're a hawt lag bomb ♥ Especially in coli with other EMs. I usually have to put my effects to lowest when i coli so i don't lag as much ;_;

Last edited by Aubree; 01-07-2011 at 11:36 AM.
 
01-07-2011   #11 (permalink)
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Gah, I wish I could test run both classes. There's a lot to consider.
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01-07-2011   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umby
Gah, I wish I could test run both classes. There's a lot to consider.
I have both a bard and a sorcerer, the level gap is huge but I can show some of my skills and whatnot if you like.

I personally like my sorc better, she is much more fun to play than my bard, has a much better dps (i'm oh so cookie cutter wind). also wind walk II.
 
01-07-2011   #13 (permalink)
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Well I think most people say soloing Bard is just pressing your Evil Sound key every few seconds and that's literally just all you do. If you don't like the sound of that, then..
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01-07-2011   #14 (permalink)
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^On my bard:

BUFFS>EVIL SOUND>EVIL SOUND>surf the internet>EVIL SOUND EVIL SOUND>chat on msn>EVIL SOUND>SPAM HEAL>watch a movie>EVIL SOUND>repeat.

Seriously.
 
01-07-2011   #15 (permalink)
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That didn't happen for me. .__.
Then again, I grinded with Pie since level 1 so I just used the elemental attacks.
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01-07-2011   #16 (permalink)
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First of all, let me start with this: The harder the character is to raise, the better it will be in the end. With that said, both magic classes are the harder to raise ones. Obviously, sorcerers are much harder due to them being hard to fund as well as find parties with. Also, all 3rd jobbers become super pros at what they're SUPPOSED to do. For example, bards get crazier buffs and their evil sound is more helpful/speedier. Sorcerers get a huge damage boost and cooldown decrease so they can constantly push back 3-6 monsters without much of a problem (unless you use wind, soooooorry! "Pick a better element and stop PvPing, Phenyl.")


Bard - primarily for support, and as such, is party dependent for a good portion of the game. They can still solo quite well. All in all, their buffs and healing are unmatched in terms of 'being useful'. Their element is water, which has a very decent balance factor/base damage - so that's always good. (Stat distribution: 15% strength, 25% stamina, 40% magic, 20% luck)

Sorcerer - primarily used for attacking and mobbing, but do not shine until 95 (if wind or water) or 110 (if earth or fire). They solo extremely well after 95/110, and are valuable in parties with folks who can't KB much. Magic in general has some of the best balance factors in the game unless you use wind - then it's the second worst. (Stat distribution: 15% strength, 20% stamina, 40% magic, 25% luck)

TL;DR
I LIKE BEING AN INVALUABLE SUPPORTER!!! Bard.
I LIKE BOOM BOOM BIG NUMBERS!!! Sorcerer.
I LIKE BOTH!!! Make both.
I LIKE BOTH BUT I AM LAZY!!! Flip a coin.
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01-07-2011   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilPhenyl
...Magic in general has some of the best balance factors in the game unless you use wind - then it's the second worst.
Just to clarify (For Umby), in La Tale terms, "balance factor" means how many enemies/players/targets a particular skill/attack can hit at once.

So like my Blader's normal attacks can usually hit up to 3 targets at once (but not 4 or more), so that would mean my Blader's normal attacks have a balance factor of 3.

If my Warlord's Double Blade II skill hits up to 5 enemies (but not more), then it has a balance factor of 5, and so on.
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01-07-2011   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOC
Just to clarify (For Umby), in La Tale terms, "balance factor" means how many enemies/players/targets a particular skill/attack can hit at once.

So like my Blader's normal attacks can usually hit up to 3 targets at once (but not 4 or more), so that would mean my Blader's normal attacks have a balance factor of 3.

If my Warlord's Double Blade II skill hits up to 5 enemies (but not more), then it has a balance factor of 5, and so on.
No, the balance factor is how many monsters you can hit at FULL damage before your damage starts slipping down the drain.

For example, evil sound has a balance factor of like 3. IF you hit more than 3, your damage is gonna suffer because it gets spread out on 4-6 targets. (at least for me, if I hit more than 3 I die, because I lose too much damage and can't kb)

So:
(Single Target damage) * (Balance Factor) / (Number of Targets)
10,000*3/2=15,000=10,000 (since you can't do more than single target damage)
10,000*3/3=10,000
10,000*3/4=7,500
10,000*3/6= 5,000

Last edited by Sandrie; 01-07-2011 at 02:51 PM. Reason: yay for maths
 
01-07-2011   #19 (permalink)
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I have both a bard (now minstrel) and sorc and personally I enjoy bard more. I was hybrid bard (water + crit tree + buffs + ES) until I changed to minstrel. I'm still semi-hybrid bard even now (traded all my water skills, but invested points into the crit tree enough for 3% magic crit rate) and I enjoy playing it.

My buffs as a bard: Holy Sound (30% def buff, 6min), Sound of Spirit (+30% or a random stat), Sound of Heart (+700hp). Ditched sound of spirit equivalent when I changed to Minstrel since its buff sucked (+400 str and magic instead of 30% random stat). Maxed (lv20) Sound of Heart equivalent since it gives +3000 hp. Performance of Harmony is a must for minstrels since you want it maxed for the +75% exp (lasts 10min).
Annnd, like someone above said, most bards are wanted in colo for heal slave. So I went down Purification tree when I changed in minstrel and I don't regret it. That new hp buff + def buff + puri = woo /o/
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01-07-2011   #20 (permalink)
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Thanks for the feedback guys.

I've got plenty of time to change my mind, but right now I'm leaning towards Bard. I just enjoy party play a lot more than solo, and it seems Bard is the preferred choice in that scenario. After that, I'll still have time to decide if I want to go Hybrid/Offensive.
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