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08-09-2008   #21 (permalink)
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umm magorz phail?
Show me Warlord.
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08-09-2008   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtothef
umm magorz phail?
Show me Warlord.
Besides the point. She just proved to you that you can learn both 1st and 2nd job skills.

Or else, how would we get per-requisites? Orz your theory failz.

You're making guides?
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08-09-2008   #23 (permalink)
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ƒƒ†ƒƒ€槍‚‚ƒƒ*ƒƒ‰…丸‚ƒ*€ ƒ‹‚ƒ‹‚‹•”(夏)

:u

this thread isn't even about warlord either
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08-09-2008   #24 (permalink)
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To tell you the absoulte truth and I could care less what anyone truely thinks.
It isn't hard at all to put together skill trees for 1st job for LaTale, it just takes time (I'll get to it V_V). I truely still don't quite understand what you mean, mostly because I didn't click on any of the link (ignorance is such sweet bliss..)

But a system where you can get 1st job skills in 2nd class in this game didn't sit right with me.. seems like it cheapens the 2nd job.. V_V



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edit: Im not signing up for tha site~! >!< I keep seeing you post it.
Youtube ftw
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08-09-2008   #25 (permalink)
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Good lord, it'd take you 2 mins to sign up on nico. And really, only if Aelya were here, she'd give a lecture on why nico is better than yt.


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08-10-2008   #26 (permalink)
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Because I was bored, I went ahead and tinkered with some skill theory for the Combo Mage (I decided that if this build was going to be finished in time for 2nd Job, I had could take on no more than 3 elements in the 1st). My first attempt is Power-emphatic (primary offensive element is Fire), and as such it aims for Sorceror. If you do not feel like reading my reasoning, scroll down to the makeshift theoretical build now. First, to explain my reasoning. As has been stated time and again, multiple elements are discouraged because (1) you can't get the strongest of one particular element and (2) it takes you longer to get a certain element up to snuff at a particular level bracket. Because of this, I found that no matter what I did, there was no avoiding pushing things back; this includes several support abilities, general skills, additional elemental attacks, and of course, party usefulness. So, I had to start things off with a solo mentality, at least up until the Level 30-40 bracket. By then, things start looking up. At this time, I focus on adding a secondary elemental attack into the mix, as well as finally introducing and/or upgrading support skills so that they are up to speed.

Second, my elemental choices. I decided that Water would be purely support--no offense. So, no need for the Water Mastery branch. I took only Healing spells for this purpose. Since this is Power-emphatic, Fire will be the offensive element, and I build on that first. I decide to master its novice elemental mastery to improve its hit rate, since I won't be going further than Novice. I have to decide which of the other two I'll focus on based on their elemental buffs: earth and its defense or wind and its maneuverability--fight or flight, basically. I choose earth in the end, because the spells are stronger, and Stone Armor + healing abilities should be sufficient for most training.

From 40 onward, I start focusing on maxing my support abilities and discerning my path. The Magic Upgrade branch is appealing, because it improves SP and damage (since pumping fire's elemental damage boost is too costly), boosts evasion, and there's a buff that provides temporary magic immunity at the end of the path as well as temporary HP/SP recovery. I get Earth up to its 2nd offensive skill and raise Fire up to the first level of its highest 1st Job offensive skill, so that at the very least, it can somewhat be prepared to advance its skills further. This is where the skill build is, currently. The next paragraph is what may happen based on how 2nd Job looks.

From here on, it is working towards the end of the 1st Job Magic Upgrade branch, building up the Fire skills of 2nd Job as well as I can, improving the 1st Job single and party heals, learning the 1st Job antidote spells, maybe getting the Earth spells to their next level, learning the alternative evasion skill in the Elemental Mastery branch, and working on the 2nd Job General skills.

And now... the skill build.

Power Combo Mage Theory (Sorceror Path)

By Level 6
Undine (Low)- 1 Point
Fire Elemental Mastery (Novice) Lv. 3- 3 Points
Magic Upgrade Lv. 1- 1 Point
Fire Burst Lv. 1- 1 Point

By Level 10
Magic Upgrade Lv. 3- 2 Points
Fire Burst Lv. 3- 2 Points

By Level 20
Undine (Med)- 1 Point
Earth Elemental Mastery (Novice) Lv. 5- 5 Points
Flame Burst Lv. 1- 1 Point
Earth Elemental Mastery (Skilled) Lv. 3- 3 Points

By Level 30
Flame Burst Lv. 3- 2 Points
Earth Elemental Mastery (Skilled) Lv. 10- 7 Points
Stone Armor Lv. 1- 1 Point

By Level 40
Stone Armor Lv. 4- 3 Points
F. Undine (Low) Lv. 1- 1 Point
Undine (High)- 1 Point
Earth Dragon Lv. 3- 3 Points
Sky Dragon Lv. 1- 1 Point
Illusion Fire Lv. 1- 1 Point

By Level 50
Stone Armor Lv. 5- 1 Point
Fire Elemental Master (Novice) Lv. 5- 2 Points
Magic Upgrade Lv. 6- 3 Points
Elemental Master Lv. 4- 4 Points

By Level 60
Magic Upgrade Lv. 10- 5 Points
Illusion Fire Lv. 3- 2 Points
Elemental Master Lv. 7- 3 Points

By Level 80
Elemental Master Lv. 10- 3 Points
Stone Armor Lv. 10- 5 Points
F. Undine (Med)- 1 Point
F. Undine (High)- 1 Point
Elemental Harmony Lv. 9- 9 Points
Fire Blaster Lvl. 1- 2 Points

It needs some trimming down, and the order of the skills isn't something absolute, just a list of things to have by each level bracket in no particular order (though getting certain skills first will definitely be more advantageous). I've got a lot of work to do to get this into some working order.
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Last edited by fieryshadowcard; 08-10-2008 at 12:33 AM.
 
08-10-2008   #27 (permalink)
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Wind armor by far is the best elemental buff imo.
Stone armor doesn't cut it since mages already have low defense. (Solo-wise)
Wind also has a very low sp cost compared to the other elements which would complement fire due to having the highest sp cost.
(The armors are you own choice and I suggest you leave them alone till you get a test drive from other mages.)

I also discourage the use of party healing skills in your build as that is best left to a pure healer. Think, what would a party choose for healing purposes? Those couple of points could be put into something that can boost your damage or the stronger single heals.

You also have to consider how well you'll be in instance dungeons. In instance dungeons, I assume you'll be the damage dealer as your healing most likely can't keep up with the damage thus those extra points being poured for more damage. Also consider the closer you get to 80, your party heals will lose their use over time as they will not be able to keep up at all.

Meh, my opinions. x.x
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Last edited by JelloTime; 08-10-2008 at 01:00 AM. Reason: Changed stuff o.o
 
08-10-2008   #28 (permalink)
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It's always good to be diverse. But sometimes a lack of specialty ( lol WoW q_q ) can make you weaker in certain situations. But, it's always nice to have hybrids, it's just they can't be the best healers, nor the best damage dealers D8 Good luck with your build fiery~

But yeah, once you start getting AoE's and multi-hitting spells you should be fine when leveling. You just need to find a nice spot, or party, and leech erm sads i mean train 8D *is shot*

@rtothief:
Misinformation is a pet-peeve. There are plenty of youtube videos out there you can look at, niconico just has better quality :B
But yeah, I hate it when people post wrong information because it's like a rumor. Once it starts, it's almost impossible to stop. And thus, people get harmed because such a action.

Ohh and you said you don't care what people think >_> Look at Bush and see how much he cares about what we think, and look where we are now.
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08-10-2008   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JelloTime
Its possible to get maxed lvl of the strongest spell of each element and have 15 skill points left over with 1 point in each basic element mastery. FYI if anyone needs this info.
i'm not quite sure of what are you saying, but
http://www.mymmogames.net/forum/lata...ills-page.html

i made this calc, you can't even get one element to master with all basic skills

edit: i got it, but in that case:

1) you would have really low magic (really a lot of skills that raise magic and you would miss, like +50% magic, maybe more)
2) you can wear only 1 magic stone, so 3 elements are further weakened
3) you will miss miss REALLY a lot ! (magic for some reason miss greatly, and i was having +10% accuracy too..)


this kind of build could be nice from lev 1 to 80, but after that i think it wouldn't be useful, at lev 80 you already can have lots of spell to combo with 1 element, having more will not help you in any manner, having them powerful does.
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08-10-2008   #30 (permalink)
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lol, Fiery's posts are always fun to read /o/ I have some things to add.

Stone Armor is only useful at lower levels. Stone Armor does not add to your current defense. In fact, this skill basically takes off 2 damage per level. Meaning that once you have it mastered, it will only take off 20 damages. It was useful when I was leveling in CB, I can solo certain mobs because I have this buff. But I would think that once you get to 80 and higher..20 damages may seem inferior. (I haven't checked out Stone Armor II, however. I'll let you know \o/)

Another point I just remembered, from reading KouNeeSama's post. I'm not entirely sure how the elemental stones work. But when I unequipped my earth stone to test out the damage...it turns out that the game won't let me use my earth spells! this includes Stone armor too. But I know players with 2 or more elements can play..I just don't know how. lol.
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08-10-2008   #31 (permalink)
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Btw, Kuda. I was perusing the Wizard Guide section and saw that Chesters made a post that expanded upon what you were saying about skill resets at job change. If he's right, then that means that after level 80, characters get no more skill points?

If that's true, then that may be the single, unavoidable flaw to my idea. It would also explain why everyone argues mediocrity between two elements. And thank you so much for explaining how Stone Armor really works. I can see why others push for Wind Walk with that, but like you said, there's no info on Stone Armor II yet, so time will tell. I'm seriously hoping that the skill point system is based on a total of 200, and not 80. D:
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Valeria, sworn only to her sword and herself, traverses Erinn in Mabinogi with her pet silver fox, Truesilver.

"Whoa, TrueSilverFox, girl! Anyone ever tell you you look like some sun-bronzed Greek Goddess these days?"


Last edited by fieryshadowcard; 08-10-2008 at 12:43 PM.
 
08-10-2008   #32 (permalink)
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No, you still get more skill points as you level up. At least..I don't think the skill points are cutoff once you get to 2nd job. There are videos of higher level plays with both first and second jobs skills, and from the looks of it...they are mastered. If the skill points really do get cut off once you change job..hell will break loose.

and it's 199, first skill point is from level 2 onward.


..or did I remember this wrong ?_?
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08-10-2008   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudaranai
..or did I remember this wrong ?_?
Lol, I think you're right about that. Thanks for clarifying on the skill points beyond level 80. :3 *resumes speculation*

But you also gave me an interesting idea with your Stone Armor insights. I think I'll continue with Earth throughout 1st Job, then invest in the Wind equivalent during 2nd Job from the skill reset. Shaving off 20 damage--even 10 damage--can make a huge difference through the 1st Job levels, something my Knight can attest to. Then, from 2nd onward, it'll be Wind Walk instead of Stone Armor unless of course Stone Armor II owns. I can't help but love defense more than evasion (which is one of the reasons TO saddened me). I'm also not sure if I'll take up the Wind offensive skills at that point, which would tack on four more ability points.

I'm still trying to reason out the 2nd Job General skills I would take to complement this, though. Because of what you said, I know for certain now that, ignoring the Fire buffs, I can learn and max all other relevant Fire-related skills without worry and still have about 60 points left. I'd also be able to max out all self-heal spells, and I could consider strengthening my healing abilities with the 1st Job General skills, as well as maybe, just maybe investing farther in the party heals and the antidotes. F. Dione (High) in my build might not heal as much HP as, say, an Artist devoted to support, but I'd like to think that F. Dione (High), fortified by Spirit of Holiness Lv. 10 could still heal a good amount and be an invaluable service to other party members.

I'll also look into what you were saying about the elemental stones and see how that would affect the build.

Also, this was my Power-Emphatic idea. A Defense-Emphatic path (Earth with Wind as secondary) seems more appealing to me due to how I like to play MMOs. And I can still consider a Speed-Emphatic path (Wind with Earth or Fire as secondary). No matter what, I like the idea of drawing from Water's Healing and Antidote spells. So, I'll probably speculate about that as well. It feels good to have something to fully explore again. I haven't felt this way since Trickster Open Beta. :3
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TrueSilverFox and Mon_Ami roamed Caballa together in Trickster Online, searching its ruins of splendor.

Valeria, sworn only to her sword and herself, traverses Erinn in Mabinogi with her pet silver fox, Truesilver.

"Whoa, TrueSilverFox, girl! Anyone ever tell you you look like some sun-bronzed Greek Goddess these days?"

 
08-10-2008   #34 (permalink)
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And fortunately, you can reset your skill points just about whenever, assuming you have the Ely for it. Skill reset scroll is only 100k + the cost of skills you need to relearn.
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08-10-2008   #35 (permalink)
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Yep. I won't make the same mistake I made with my Knight, though. If I decide to skill reset, I'll be certain to have farmed enough money to at least get back on the same page. Those Ely costs get insane later on.
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TrueSilverFox and Mon_Ami roamed Caballa together in Trickster Online, searching its ruins of splendor.

Valeria, sworn only to her sword and herself, traverses Erinn in Mabinogi with her pet silver fox, Truesilver.

"Whoa, TrueSilverFox, girl! Anyone ever tell you you look like some sun-bronzed Greek Goddess these days?"

 
08-10-2008   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieryshadowcard
Btw, Kuda. I was perusing the Wizard Guide section and saw that Chesters made a post that expanded upon what you were saying about skill resets at job change. If she's right, then that means that after level 80, characters get no more skill points?
Are you referring to this post? If you are, I think you misunderstood me a bit. When I meant you get no bonus for leveling further, I meant, if you go above level 80 and job advance, you don't get any special reward of sorts than if you just had done it at 80. As far as I know, skill points continue as normal. :s But I don't really know as much as Kuda.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chesters
Are you referring to this post? If you are, I think you misunderstood me a bit. When I meant you get no bonus for leveling further, I meant, if you go above level 80 and job advance, you don't get any special reward of sorts than if you just had done it at 80. As far as I know, skill points continue as normal. :s But I don't really know as much as Kuda.
Ah, okay! So that also helps clear things up. :3 *now fiery goes back to fix a typo regarding a certain member's gender in his earlier post*
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TrueSilverFox and Mon_Ami roamed Caballa together in Trickster Online, searching its ruins of splendor.

Valeria, sworn only to her sword and herself, traverses Erinn in Mabinogi with her pet silver fox, Truesilver.

"Whoa, TrueSilverFox, girl! Anyone ever tell you you look like some sun-bronzed Greek Goddess these days?"

 
08-10-2008   #38 (permalink)
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Well the reason I prefer Youtube is quite simple.
There is a code that enables everyone to see it on the forum using the YT code.


It makes it so that not every single individual person has to sign up to see the videos.



And I could tell 3 seconds into the video your quite right (not that I doubted you as much as it seemed I did)... There is duplicate skill icons in the hot bar (light blue=1st job) (dark blue=2nd).


I guess I'll be fine with my guide creation up to level 80 without any problems, then after meaby I'll grasp the idea of skills after 2nd. I applogize for the "lawlokbaibbq" way I was going on.

(Bangor - Maine + super 8 motel + lack of sleep=grumpy Rto).






Because it was the Mage section that kicked my butt the Wizard version of my guide will receive a large overhaul tomorrow. If someone could though, could someone tell me the pro/cons of each element?

I know Fire costs the most MP and has the most damage, and that Earth is sexy. But thats about it..
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08-10-2008   #39 (permalink)
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From what I know..
For first job:

Fire - highest damage,highest sp cost
Earth - 2nd highest sp cost
Wind - lowest sp cost
Water - 2nd lowest sp cost, horrible range(first 2 spells)
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08-12-2008   #40 (permalink)
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o..o I pity Rto For having the Legs kicked out from under him like that D:.. there is another more painful way of illustration what those two girlies did to his manhood but thats too vulgar for the context of this thread.

as an aside. Now on to business.

fire: high SP consumption backed by the highest Damage output of any element, Medium speed, Good range. Highly offensively oriented.

Earth: Med-high SP consumption, decent damage. Buff aids in early level soloing, Has some of the Best ranges Spells out of all the elements. o..o downside : rocks = slowzors D: but its not actually that slow... just slower in comparison. (and yes, the art work pwns :3 GO dragons)

Water: very little SP needed per cast.. the range sucks though D: However, they are the quintessential healers of the early level bossing. They also provide decent recovery buffs and later on some other kick ass HP buffs and etc o..o But not recommended for soloing... More like the pure support class of latale.

Wind: Weeeee our spells are free ( well almost ). Decent range with the worse DMg modifiers out of them all, it none-the-less makes up for it with the fastest cast times and Strikes per skill out of all the elements o..o. It is the magely equivalent of the knuckle knight. they also get to have super human speed, so there are alot of up sides to having one around.

Thats about what everyone will tell you are the fundamentals of Magics. Its pretty simple and straight forward, so i am not worried about being castrated like Rto *wears a cup anyways* D:
__________________
Being dragged to play: laTale (?????) Halp!
Currently playing: eSO 17x knight
TO Formerly 2xx/2xx Full HV Coon monkopeace and 1xx/1xx Full AC Lion monastary
 

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