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09-23-2009   #1 (permalink)
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Default Why is PVP so predictable? Why are people so arrogant because of it?

Rant ahead followed by advice to some of the cockier GGFTWers at the end. (I'm the girl who LIVES on Team Fortress 2 and Halo, so yeah, I enjoy PVP more-so than the actual game.) Feel free to comment, this is just for funsies/something to do while waiting for a friend to come over.

ON TOPIC TIME!1one1one!

Referring back to the topic title; I was wondering why this is. I understand if something works, use it, but I suppose there is no limit when it comes to being cheap... Eh? Anyway, to start off. Hello, my name is A. Phenyl, and I'm a PVPholic. Not to toot my own horn, but I'm very good at it... Like, way better then most wizards around my level, and sometimes even better then some people above my level. I keep track of my wins and losses by using two different etc items, just to see if I'm getting any better. So far today, I have lost 8 battles, and won 23 of them(this is very good for an EARTH WIZARD). So as you can see, I'm slightly serious about PVPing, but I usually do it to have fun. Unless I'm in point-gathering mode, then I'm basically feral.

Basically everyone I faced, sans JigglyBones(warrior), Bridget(bard) and Flask(guardian), were so easy to read that I actually knew what to do to fight them with ease. Now that doesn't mean I won... But if YOUR moves are predictable, you should practice or just stop PVPing. So, out of PROBABLY over 100 people, only 3 stood out to have a different style. I'd like to know what's up with this community and their lack of skill. You can't push a few buttons while jumping around like a rabbit, win a bunch of matches by using the same cheap tactic, then get cocky about what you did. Yet they still do. I understand kids play this game, but most PVPers are old enough to know that being a douche = bad.

Typical Fight With A Cheap Idiot:
Him: *Airskills, Airskills, Airskills* or *Jumps behind me and tries to attack*
Me: *Run back a bit, attack when they land. Rinse and repeat.*
Him: OMFG YOU'RE RUNNING YOU SUCK
Me: *Decides not to "run" to humor them and gets killed so they are in the lead*
Him: *They keep running so I can't hit them*

(I say "HIM" because most PVPers are males. Which to be honest, does not help clear up the whole stereotype of "males are arrogant", because most of these idiots sure are.)

Now from here, the fight goes one of two ways~
Me: *Catches them. Kicks their ass. Makes them cry. Says "Good Game." anyway*
or
Me: *Doesn't catch them. Loses. Makes a sly comment on their running (if in feral mode xD) or I just say "Good game." Start another PVP match.*

The average PVPer tactics include: Basically what was mentioned. Airskilling or running. Sometimes whining.

My tactics include: Dodging, ducking, jumping, airskilling when needed, running to heal WHEN NEEDED, protecting a platform to gain more ground, not falling for bait, baiting the opponent, running around to surprise the opponent, waiting for the opponent to follow ME, not following the opponent, sniping the opponent when the least expect it, not abusing the same tactic over and over and over for the same match unless it is NEEDED to keep me from getting stunlocked. (If the fight is very one sided, I just give up or leave to cannon AFK. It's not fun to not get an attack in, and it just means i need to practice more or it means they are very good or very cheap.)

A side tactic of mine: Chide the player if they are being cheap, hoping to make them STOP being cheap and do something else. This can actually work and get them to be reckless. It's like using taunt in GodHand.

Win or lose, I can still keep a smile on my face because at least I tried and I still had fun.

Yeah, I guess I sound like I boasted a bit in the beginning. But it's true, how many wizards do you see PVPing? How many wizards do you see with over 10K honor points that was gotten WITHOUT much help (I party PVP sporadically, but I do carry my own weight). If that doesn't say "Phenyl is a good PVPer", then I suppose nothing can. And I'd be fine with that because it's all about fun in the first place. Which no, you can't have fun if you're just setting out to WIN because it makes each loss more frustrating than the last.

My advice to people like that: lern2bhumble and it's okay to be serious, but try not to be TOO serious to the point of raging over something gone wrong. It's a great ability to have in the game and in real life.
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Last edited by LilPhenyl; 09-23-2009 at 02:56 PM.
 
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09-23-2009   #2 (permalink)
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Heh, you know Jigglybones too, the 1st thing she did when i met her was beat the life out of me.

Well, you also have to observe, if most of the community uses those same cheap tactics, there isn't much push in the community to try harder is there? Running when you're winning is the meta-game amongst the majority of the pvp community and airskilling after someone misses as well. Hypocrisy is also the mental meta-game too, running while dissing others for running too, gotta be free to do what you want while making people feel dumb for doing what they do to increase the odds of them screwing up.

Then to top it off, in a game filled with latency it's hard to think of using "skill" in this game when lag could mess you up at any given second, which demotivates from trying to be more creative.

I'm not a PvPer, i tend to hate PvP-based communities, Grand Chase comes to mind. So i only speak from what little experience i have there.

As far being cheap, which i assume to be using the same tactic over and over again, i think, if someone keeps falling into it over and over despite having so many opportunities to find a counter to it they deserve to be owned by it repeatedly. But judging by the way you were refering to saying that to make them reckless maybe you don't really believe in "Cheap" anyway.
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09-23-2009   #3 (permalink)
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Well the definition of being cheap can differ from person to person. To me, being cheap is using the same "thing" again and again. And if the person isn't falling for it any more, they sit and wait or they swing around their weapons hoping to knock you out of the air or something. Which, to be honest, is better than just airskilling over and over and over again. Using the same tactic over and over again is like snaking in Mario Kart. Anyone can snake, since anyone can use that little grind-boost. But using it too much gives you an unfair advantage. The same applies to Latale and any other game with PVP sans RO, since in RO, there is no running or jumping, only attack attack attack attack and don't get killed.

I usually don't feed into any of their bull-sh*t anymore when it comes to them whining. If they have a problem with me using my own way to kick their butts, then they can just use a warp capsule and leave the match. Or better yet, don't come back into the PVP arena until they learn it's not all about winning. If they are just doing it for points, they can get friends to help them to get points. So as you can tell, I'm serious about PVP, as in I don't want people who are just there for points. I wanna fight someone who is there for sh*ts and giggles. If they beat me/I beat them, then we can laugh it up. Or call each other names and later laugh it up. Or if need be, meet up at a public location, beat the crap out of each other with wiffleball bats and then laugh it up.
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09-23-2009   #4 (permalink)
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I live in australia.

Freeze frames and delay are uncontrolable.

I couldn't care less if my opponent thought i was skilless because i cant even double tap or guard properly, let alone airskill at the right time.

I personally have my own way of fighting because i know i lag, so suck it up.

And to those who (not specific to anyone in this thread - just my personal rant) think healing is not 'fair', it's a skill i take advantage of because i can.
If you're a GS, use your range to win me.
If you're lag is little to none, use your guarding etc.
 
09-23-2009   #5 (permalink)
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Haha, yeah I know JigglyBones is crazy good at pvp, because he (yes he) has lots of practice with warriors, since he has both a blader AND warlord e__e

I'm not that good at pvp, and I lag so much that I can't airskill properly

What I really hate is when I lose so badly that the winner gets all cocky and starts dissing me that losers like me should go back to grinding ==

Ne, you want someone more unpredictable? Try fighting TaegaIV, 'cos he attacks like no other dagger TH. I don't know if he still plays with that char anymore though @.@

Last edited by Jady; 09-23-2009 at 04:46 PM. Reason: Grammar, it's bad today Q_Q
 
09-23-2009   #6 (permalink)
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Who really cares if you're having fun? I think you whine too much and should stop playing the game if it frustrates you so much. And I mean "you" as in "you all" or "anyone who this may apply to".
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09-23-2009   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azusa
Who really cares if you're having fun? I think you whine too much and should stop playing the game if it frustrates you so much. And I mean "you" as in "you all" or "anyone who this may apply to".
Good point made there

Though it's still rather frustrating when dealing with some people can't stand losing and spam your whisper for about half an hour D:

I've made some pretty good friends from there too though.

Last edited by Jady; 09-23-2009 at 04:55 PM.
 
09-23-2009   #8 (permalink)
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I beat gunslingers with my engineer.

Suck on that.
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09-23-2009   #9 (permalink)
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So is Latale PVP similar to that of fighting games or is it completely different?
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09-23-2009   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azusa
Who really cares if you're having fun? I think you whine too much and should stop playing the game if it frustrates you so much. And I mean "you" as in "you all" or "anyone who this may apply to".
QFT.

Anyways, why does it matter if people airskill over and over? If that's what they have to do to win, then be it. You have your strategy, they have theirs; you have your definition of "cheap" others have theirs. I understand if the people you face in pvp start yelling and throwing insults, I get annoyed at that too but if you play in mainly to have "fun", then just have "fun" and ignore these problems.

Quote:
But if YOUR moves are predictable, you should practice or just stop PVPing. So, out of PROBABLY over 100 people, only 3 stood out to have a different style. I'd like to know what's up with this community and their lack of skill. You can't push a few buttons while jumping around like a rabbit, win a bunch of matches by using the same cheap tactic, then get cocky about what you did. Yet they still do.
...what??? so basically... if someone who is decent in PvP but have predictable moves... they should just stop pvping. Aaaaaaand why is that?
I'm guessing people should try different styles even if they start losing. Now I'm not flaming on you, I'm just confused. Although, if you're describing the "cheap" people who also get cocky then I agree, I'm with that.

Again, I'm not saying your points are totally invalid. I'm siding on the part on which people start to whine, bash and insult because of losing. But to say people should stop pvping because they're airskilling/running too much or use the same "tactics" - I don't think so.

Happy LaTale-ing
 
09-23-2009   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azusa
Who really cares if you're having fun? I think you whine too much and should stop playing the game if it frustrates you so much. And I mean "you" as in "you all" or "anyone who this may apply to".
This^

And original poster is contradictory

Really phenyl, really..?
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09-23-2009   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viral
This^
But you're a meister. .-.



To me pvp is fun until some douche with 1k something stamina comes in, and seeing how I'm an east coast blader with dsl, you can imagine how annoying it'd be getting less than 2 hits in before I die.

It's why I'm still sitting on 83k pvp points (I can't even remember anymore), it's been that way ever since super puzzles came out, when templars can do 2k crits, gunslingers doing 1.5k crits each shot and how most people just can't be budged anymore.

Sickening.
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09-23-2009   #13 (permalink)
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This is why I don't PvP.
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09-23-2009   #14 (permalink)
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^ Same `-`
People pvp on my char sometimes though \o/
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09-23-2009   #15 (permalink)
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I kinda think it's hard to NOT suck in PvP, unless you live on the West Coast!

Dodging and ducking are really nice ways to PvP well, but that kind of stuff is limited to West Coast players/players with fantastic internet. Ducking and dodging properly is just impossible if you have even a little bit of latency. Not to mention latency tends to affect how well you can combo your skills together!

From what I can tell, PvP in LaTale is mainly based on connection and then gear. If you have a good connection and decent gear, you're good to go! (Practice will make you better!) For those who have awesome gear but non-west-coast connections, you can do well overall (awesome gears just makes it hard to lose sometimes ) but latency will always cap the potential of a player, no matter how skilled they may be.

You can judge the players you feel are predictable all you want, but take into account that some (more like MOST) people are limited in their capacity to PvP by more than just lack of skill.
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09-23-2009   #16 (permalink)
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^ Truth be told.
 
09-23-2009   #17 (permalink)
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I'm in that low percentage that lives in on the West coast with perfect connection [aka no lag 100%]. I still suck hardcore at pvp though/o/
b>moar practice.
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09-23-2009   #18 (permalink)
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TL;DR Version-
1) Dir r assignment
2) You basically been trawl'd... Maybe... Well, at least I know three people were.
3) You were indirectly used to help judge if it went well


A good writer can write one thing up based on one side of what they think, but not express their WHOLE VIEW(the actual details and the counter argument) of the situation. Thus making people see it as just another view, either agreeing with it or disagreeing with it. Or maybe even agreeing with it because it sounds right. It's also what propaganda would look like. Slightly stretched truth, if not just a random little tidbit that sounds like crap without the words to back it up... With a hint of irony in it. But a normal reader wouldn't be able to see that, now would they? (Which is the whole point).

The only person who came close was Viral, but he did not point out which part was contradictory. The answer is "the first post and the second post"! Or to be more specific, the serious intent saw in the first post, followed by the slightly free-spirited answer in the second post that almost says "I really don't care". I was only suppose to paste the first part of the paragraph, but forgot my actual intent(to stir up more posts) as I responded even further to a question I knew that was going to come up. Instead of editing it, I decided to keep it there because it:
1) Wasn't part of the initial project
2) Because it's my actual view on the whole deal
3) Might generate more posts or reactions to the whole ordeal


Still confused?

This was a writing exercise that was suppose to use one or more techniques used for writing up propaganda(Ex: One sided argument disguised as a normal blob of text). I had to come up with a topic. Cut out one side of the argument. Then stick to it and write four paragraphs worth of something. The other challenge was to include a BAD technique that should never be used for propaganda. I'm sure you know what that one is by now.

BUT! The second post was not a part of it. The contradiction/irony is also within the first post as well. The second post (blunder) makes it more obvious.

How it came about?

I struck a deal with my home schooling teacher and I came up with this. She was reluctant, but figured it would be best if I did it on a topic I could get into and nothing serious like immigrants, health care, abortion, etc (because I do enough of that already). She could also see if people responded negatively or positively to it, rather than just using her OWN insight to grade the assignment... It was also a good opportunity to troll a little bit. I was waiting for someone to say something like Azusa did to copy/paste this here, because she is right in a sense and is the last of the reactions I needed.

Uh? What Reactions?
Jady: She was the one who didn't disagree, rather, she agreed. Meaning it was a positive response. (Hook, line and sinker)

BreakFree: The "other" kind of negative response. They state their side of the story and justify why they do the thing they do, even though the main post says it's BAD.

Lime: The nonchalant response, which is another way of not agreeing, but not disagreeing either. It could be seen as an agreement because he DIDN'T disagree. Thus being a possibly unintentional positive response.

Azusa: She was the rebuttal that tore it all down. She had a point, and if it was a different subject and she did the same thing while the person was speaking, the room would probably go quiet. This being, the worst negative response possible.

I FIGURED these were the reactions I needed. I mean, that's basically all there is when it comes to things like this. Great, okay, bad, worse. There is no middle man. The best part is that they are plainly one of those four, so I can close out sooner before there's any BAW or RAWR. Thank you for being subjects and no you can't sue me for using you like that.

If you wanna know the grade, I can probably tell you tomorrow. I doubt it'll be good because I used some crude language amongst other mistakes... I should edit that out... But... Meh...


Edit: You can continue discussing if you want. I guess.
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Last edited by LilPhenyl; 09-23-2009 at 07:33 PM.
 
09-23-2009   #19 (permalink)
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i stay away from pvp since most of my experiences with it are bad Y.Y worest one was me VS a level 139 miester at level 88 and getting R@ped with 1 hit K.O's at the end of the match 43 kills to 0 and to top it off a wave of trash talk from him and his buddys -.-
 
09-23-2009   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azusa
Who really cares if you're having fun? I think you whine too much and should stop playing the game if it frustrates you so much. And I mean "you" as in "you all" or "anyone who this may apply to".
I have to quote this for awesomeness.. *peace
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