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12-21-2010   #1 (permalink)
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How variable are permanent Engineers? Is this something that players do for fun or does it actually have some kind of advantage (which I doubt)?

Last edited by Zayith; 12-25-2010 at 12:42 AM.
 
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12-23-2010   #2 (permalink)
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I don't think people have an answer because tool boxes are, well, boring. Most people make an Engineer simply because they want to use MGs as a Meister. The tool boxes and dependency on turrets are often seen as "I want to hurry this up as fast as possible and reach second job so I can use my real weapon" like many other second jobs.

I can't say you'll be the first to try permanent Engineer, but I don't really know why you would -want- to other than to just be different. AFAIK, Meisters can use all the same and even more turrets than Engineers. The only real thing you're losing are the skills like machine gun, ect.. I don't know what an official Meister skill set is so I don't know if they get upgraded versions of it, but they can't use those skills when they're in an MG. They do, however, get their own MG specific skills which are vastly more powerful and effective than any of the Engineer tool box skills.
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12-23-2010   #3 (permalink)
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A permanent engineer actually has okayish DPS due to their 4th mastery, and their bulk is equally decent thanks to certain misc. skills. However, if you're going to make a permanent engineer, then you're wasting your time on the fun factor. Being a permanent engineer doesn't mean you'll suck, but you're going to need some good friends to invite you into parties or you're going to need loads of ely to become bulky/strong enough to level on your own. In the end, it's a class rich people make to own in PvP - since Engineers (especially cali/good latency ones) are just as broken as gunslinger when funded properly. So they can be super OP without people thinking they're OP at first, which makes their e-penor bigger or something.

Just go with a meister and leave it at that. There's also subclasses which changes up the meister melee combos and gives you decently ranged ones instead (similar to engineers in a way, actually).
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12-25-2010   #4 (permalink)
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I have no interest in becoming a Engineer even though I know it was a safe assumption to think I wanted to be one. In the future, I would be careful on what assumptions to make as it could lead to bad results (which I see often in other forum boards). Also, trying to sway my opinion on whats fun and not fun is very dumb. If its fun at that current time for me or somebody else, don't try to force your opinions down my throat about something thats completely judgemental and nothing to do with facts. Especially you KOC. No mean to point fingers but you do this often to me and you call me "stubborn". It is true that I'm stubborn but so are you for trying to tell me whats fun and not fun such as tanking bossing when under leveled or becoming a perma Engineer.

This is for my friend as hes a new LaTale who loves Toolboxes. He has no interested in using MGs at all as he saids they look "stupid" as well as many other bad things. Therefore, I did some research on theses Engineers.

To my surprise, Engineers are actually good in PvP? I would like to know why. Theres 2 tier skills seems incredibly slow and seems to leave you variable and their Machine Gun skill seems to lack that KB on a frontal attack. Without that good KB, machine gun would either hit only partial or hit fully and you'll take a ton of damage. I lack knowledge of Thunder Trap as I only seen it used in PvE and I never seen the fourth tier skill of the Engineer. Maybe those skills will shine light.

Would somebody give me a explanation on why Engineers are actually "good" at PvP?

Last edited by Zayith; 12-25-2010 at 12:41 AM.
 
12-25-2010   #5 (permalink)
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Actually you made an attack against people because we didn't reply to your thread. I was defending because of why no one replied. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I recently PvP'd with a 190+ perma Engineer. As expected, with enough functional fashion, special titles, multiple good pet buffs and super puzzled gear, they PvP just as well as any other class. Unfortunately it was in a 4 FFA and her only real challenge (considering I was 98) was a 130 Blader (not much of a threat to a 190+) and a 180+ Wind Elemental Master. Of course third jobs are still bugged in PvP, so the third job couldn't do anywhere near as well as he potentially could. What I noticed, though, is her PvP techniques. She would often keep a Warlord's distance and "trap" her oppontent's in the corners of the map. (of the three times we PvP'd, we had the same participants and it was always the Toad Island map) All of her hits KB'd and did heavy damage. If she knocked someone down, she'd close in Blader/GS style with her Machine Gun skill and immediately KB you again with each hit. Their "throw eveything" skill has a lengthly animation and amount of hits, and her laser skill did an extreme amount of damage. She was not third or even second job. She was still first job I believe.

As good as she was, I still don't see her being able to take out proper 2nd jobs that are 190+. Her range is her biggest flaw, and when she has used all her strong skills, she's forced to use Machine Gun which I'm assuming thst a proper PvPer could run through easily. Anyone with really good movement speed could outrun her attacks with little effort as well.

In short, and this is simply my opinion, the only way a perma Engineer could be viable in hardcore PvP standards is if their opponent is at least 2nd job (assuming 3rd jobs are fixed soon'sh, I don't see any perma first jobs killing any third jobs, much less any 2nd jobs that are close to levels), if the perma engineer is 190+ (meaning she should overcome 170- much easier), and if her opponent has worse latency than her.

Pleas forgive any typos, this was posted from my iPhone.
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12-25-2010   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOC
Actually you made an attack against people because we didn't reply to your thread. I was defending because of why no one replied. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I recently PvP'd with a 190+ perma Engineer. As expected, with enough functional fashion, special titles, multiple good pet buffs and super puzzled gear, they PvP just as well as any other class. Unfortunately it was in a 4 FFA and her only real challenge (considering I was 98) was a 130 Blader (not much of a threat to a 190+) and a 180+ Wind Elemental Master. Of course third jobs are still bugged in PvP, so the third job couldn't do anywhere near as well as he potentially could. What I noticed, though, is her PvP techniques. She would often keep a Warlord's distance and "trap" her oppontent's in the corners of the map. (of the three times we PvP'd, we had the same participants and it was always the Toad Island map) All of her hits KB'd and did heavy damage. If she knocked someone down, she'd close in Blader/GS style with her Machine Gun skill and immediately KB you again with each hit. Their "throw eveything" skill has a lengthly animation and amount of hits, and her laser skill did an extreme amount of damage. She was not third or even second job. She was still first job I believe.

As good as she was, I still don't see her being able to take out proper 2nd jobs that are 190+. Her range is her biggest flaw, and when she has used all her strong skills, she's forced to use Machine Gun which I'm assuming thst a proper PvPer could run through easily. Anyone with really good movement speed could outrun her attacks with little effort as well.

In short, and this is simply my opinion, the only way a perma Engineer could be viable in hardcore PvP standards is if their opponent is at least 2nd job (assuming 3rd jobs are fixed soon'sh, I don't see any perma first jobs killing any third jobs, much less any 2nd jobs that are close to levels), if the perma engineer is 190+ (meaning she should overcome 170- much easier), and if her opponent has worse latency than her.

Pleas forgive any typos, this was posted from my iPhone.
It may of seem like a attack towards you of my post (and I do apologize) but I do feel like you attack me towards our last chat in-game. I shouldn't of brought the "stubborn" issue out towards people who have no idea where the conversation came in. But I do feel like swaying a judgement on me to determine a class (or subclass)to be very annoying. It is fine to tell people your opinions such as saying a class or a quest is boring but I think its disrespectful to tell me that me or my friend shouldn't do it because it is boring. If it wasn't for this attitude from the LaTale community then I believe that we would have more classes such as Templars in the mix (just a theory). We all know theres a lack of Templars, Engineers, etc. because of one of the mains reasons is from this judgement. I for one find joy in some things as do my friend despite everybody opinions and if it wasn't for our confidence, your invalid judgement would of sway me or my friend. We need less of this in the LaTale community.

Oh, and I would like to ask how I attacked the rest of the community when nobody replied to this thread. I have edited my post but all the post contained that it didn't before was "Oh. I figured the answer out. Tool Box Mastery maxes at the rank of 50 making them variable." I don't see how this is even somewhat offensive.

As far as your information about Engineer PvP, your insight was quite helpful. I'm a unexperience player so I wouldn't of known about Machine Gun actually being useful for KB. Those type of skills can't KB because of our low levels. I take it, with the right enchants, you can cause those skills to KB quite well. Would I ask if the Templar Skill "Mystery Rod" to be the same way as "Machine Gun"? This knowledge would help me a lot. Thank you sir.

Last edited by Zayith; 12-25-2010 at 02:26 AM.
 
12-25-2010   #7 (permalink)
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If you want to discuss the personal stuff further, I would love to, but please PM me about it.

On topic, Machine Gun isn't normally meant to KB. Like you said, it's more like a Mystery Rod. But because of how functional fashion, special titles, multiple pet buffs, and super puzzles work (The cash shop unbalanced stuff that breaks the game), you can make ANY attack KB when you're 190+ fighting the right people, regardless of your job.

She wasn't good because of her skill or Engineer, she was good because of her cash shop unbalanced stuff and her level, and the fact she was fighting opponents that were bugged third job and NOT using cash shop unbalanced stuff.

Basically, and this is my opinion, I think for any first job to be variable in hardcore PvP, you have to be willing to spend a lot of Astros or else you'll be creamed by people who do spend a lot of Astros.

For non-Astro vs non-Astro, see above post.
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