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04-11-2011   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k0n
Red people must be famous now :V
Lulz that's exactly what I thought.

Although this doesn't affect me much (all the neg rep I've ever received were either blank or really insignificant), I hope the removal of neg rep will make people more conscientious about how they rep
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04-11-2011   #22 (permalink)
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nice update ^^
i like this one,it can help prevent drama too
no more random de-reppers that de-rep you for fun
its annoying that ppl de-rep you without reasons and it hurts in my part
figuring the reason why they de-rep you is kinda hard in my part

thanks for the update,i really like it ^^
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04-11-2011   #23 (permalink)
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I prefer it this way actually.

we have more than enough ways to show disapproval of each other's actions: aka our words.

But ways to encourage positive action in a community is always a benefit.

Many people say the best way to deal with a troll is to ignore them; yet the option to de-rep someone was always around to let them know their ways successfully bothered somebody.

Now rep exists in a more positive format: People who constantly make guides or strong posts will amass rep much faster than the average member or member who -cough- still needs to work on some things.

In other words: I now see rep as meter of site contribution, which sounds like a much better system to me, with much less room for abuse.
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04-11-2011   #24 (permalink)
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I like this change. It would have been too big of hassle punishing users who abuse the system. That is, checking to see what post it is from and which user did it.

I'm for a reputation system, but unfortunately its difficult if not impossible to work as intended. Especially on a large forum.

I used to moderate a small private forum that had moderators give users reputation score based on post constructiveness. So the users would look to a user's score rather than post count as a gauge of how much contribution a user did.
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04-11-2011   #25 (permalink)
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the rep should be more visual rather then 1 box that changes color for the latest 2 rep recieved, maybe a % factor rather then number of boxs youtube introduced something sort of similar with the likes maybe we should convert to that nextime the rep changeg, I get a bunch of negative rep and half the time its completly uncalled for and mostly they dont even comment, just a blank its pretty annoying, cause they troling when i like to improve and i have to figure out what i did wrong more on the post...

i dont like this new update because - cant see whos a more on a bad case manner or troll. althought mods are very active on forum and they can mark the trolls =D
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Last edited by redvalentines; 04-11-2011 at 09:54 PM. Reason: last sentance :)
 
04-11-2011   #26 (permalink)
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You know, I still think the best solution would just to not allow people who disabled rep to view their rep comments.

Lock a user's ability to disable/enable rep after switching to/from it for a few days.

Only pay attention to people who truly left offensive/bannable comments in reps, any and all other "drama fest" reports would be ignored and even punished with either temp. ban and/or force disable their rep for a few days. Eventually people would leave GMs alone about it.

Problem solved. Ohhhhhh well.
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04-11-2011   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lime
I prefer it this way actually.

we have more than enough ways to show disapproval of each other's actions: aka our words.

But ways to encourage positive action in a community is always a benefit.

Many people say the best way to deal with a troll is to ignore them; yet the option to de-rep someone was always around to let them know their ways successfully bothered somebody.

Now rep exists in a more positive format: People who constantly make guides or strong posts will amass rep much faster than the average member or member who -cough- still needs to work on some things.

In other words: I now see rep as meter of site contribution, which sounds like a much better system to me, with much less room for abuse.
Took the words right out of my keyboard.
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04-11-2011   #28 (permalink)
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Darnit, I loved trolling people who cared about rep. ]:
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04-11-2011   #29 (permalink)
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I'm... a bit sad about this update, actually. D: Why can't it be possible to just change that staff members can't view who dereped who in that case, if one thinks that they will cause drama? You can just pretty much talk to them instead of going all "Okay, no more dereps for everyone thanks to a certain few!"

Rep is pretty much still a fun system, IMO. There are very nice people with low rep bars like TonSensei and Sharpe for a few, and big jerks with high rep bars. (SORRY NOT SAYING WHO) Point I'm trying to say is, little green blips doesn't determine who you are, and you shouldn't turn away someone who has red blips either. It's almost like...

"Oh, bunnies are fist type characters. They punch. =D"
"No, this green blip guy says Bunnies use swords."
"That's not true. =l"
"Well I believe him because you have a red blip. >=l"

Well, you get what I mean, don't you? D:

Now it almost feels like "The Staff is the Law. The Staff determines if one person is good or bad.". What turned into a fun system turned into a system which is... well. Inconsistent.

I pretty much sense in the future, some high rep bar people will boast their rep bar for their "contribution and pride" because the rep system seems to have gotten... serious and there's no negative rep anymore. =l

Oh well. Fun times must come to an end. ._.;
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04-11-2011   #30 (permalink)
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Please think of it from this point of view.
Ability to view who gave -rep is taken away (except Management and Operations) with -rep system still in place.
Those who use to be able to view -rep can now longer view them. With that change, the drama of negative rep wars has dropped (notice I didn't say 100% gone). Members now no longer know who is giving who the +/-.

If the -rep system is still kept in place, members will still leave comments like " - " or " (pretend this is blank)." Now this so called member may do either of these two things:
  1. Kindly send a PM to staff saying "Please check into this and remove it" when the true feeling is "REMOVE THAT UGLY RED BAR. I WANT MY GREEN BARS BACK!"
  2. Create a thread in Questions, Feedback & Suggestions demanding that someone on Staff do something (infraction, ban, whatever the member states) for whoever gave that negative rep. The next thing you know, a bunch of members come in to create a flame war/drama. It's happened before.

Personally, the drama should have ended a long time ago. People feel proud to give negative reps because they won't be found out. The end result, just more unwanted drama for both parties (if found).

I am saying this as a member and not in a staff position. Staff is not meant to be your big brother/sister to punch the person who's been bullying you. Drama should be taken elsewhere because people that create the drama is just asking to create a big audience here.


End result: We have a lovely HR called Yuki. She's a nice person and is willing to help out because that's the kind of person she is.
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04-11-2011   #31 (permalink)
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At the end of the day, nothing we do with this will please everyone. It's just not possible.

What we've done is for the best. You wouldn't believe the absolutely ridiculous and childish things we have to deal with concerning rep.

There's a very, VERY good reason that Facebook never implemented a "dislike" button. I can see that very clearly now that we've had the forum equivalent of such for the last couple of years.

It's really simple -- if you don't like something that someone says then you can show that by not adding to their reputation. If you do like it, show by adding reputation. If your reputation suddenly drops by 6+ bars, you know that someone with a grey or blue name did it and I assure you there'll be a reason.
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04-12-2011   #32 (permalink)
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It should have always been this way.
Facebook and lots of comment systems have went through the same exact issue.
And their solution is just to put a Like or a Thumbs Up
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04-12-2011   #33 (permalink)
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People take reputation systems too serious, its just some fun system to give marks to ppl, can be just as same as saying a good/bad word instead.

Its so sad that i compare it to something like that but its like fame in MapleStory(if it still exists i dunno O_O), there is nothing special that reputation does or no1 special that gives it to you.

Never bothered about it o-o either i had negative or positive rept, says absolutely nothing about the person. (noticed that almost all who do care about it has high rept....)
 
04-12-2011   #34 (permalink)
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ahah with the few posts I wrote I still managed to get a lot of those random troll -reps... at first I was more concerned, but then I just forgot about it.
I admit that I felt kinda sad when someone -repped me writing "hate you"
but really, we shouldn't take these things seriously.
 
04-12-2011   #35 (permalink)
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Trolling via rep is more discrete than trolling via posts/PMs. Workload will move to forum moderators. It shall be an interesting transition.
 
04-12-2011   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirae
If the -rep system is still kept in place, members will still leave comments like " - " or " (pretend this is blank)."
I never quite understood why the forum insist on comments for neg reps while it is not required for positive reps. If that is allowed, then there will be a lot less drama about the rep already.

Obviously, this move reduces the potential drama bait and the workload of Yuki. I do welcome this move speaking from a moderator point of view.

However, speaking as a user, I am disappointed that obvious trolls will no longer get their deserved neg reps. MMOsite without it's huge honking red rep bar? GGFTW will never be the same again. And obviously, it makes it easy for newcomers to spot forum trolls, because there will only be 2 reason why the accounts with huge neg reps get them.

1. They are legitimate trolls pissing people off.
2. They requested to be neg-repped to be unique, which I believe is the case for Ken, although I am not too sure.

The lack of feature to identify trolls will undoubtedly be a loss to the forum site.

Ultimately, I believe this is due to the fact that the overall community is still not mature enough to handle the neg-rep system, and a handful of users are obsessively anal about it. There's a forum I surf that encounters no such problem with a reputation system that PUBLICLY DISPLAYS who reps who.
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04-12-2011   #37 (permalink)
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It was something, maybe, implemented for fun, however I believed the leaving of negative reputation actually took it away. There were quite an amount of people actually that didn't see the reputation thing as fun and actually took them seriously, that it really meant something, with that including the negative reps that were received as well.

I always thought there was no need for something like this to begin with, I've stated it before as well, if people appreciate or even are dissatisfied with a person's post they could very well just state that through a post, pm or even visitor messages. In reality however quite some people don't seem to, this especially goes for leaving some criticism or having a change of views. I've gotten quite some negative reputations just like as an "-" comment as well, thinking what might even be the reason for that, but I stopped caring when you've been told over and over again it's just a fun system and is within the rules.

Just a little piece of advice, one should disregard the green bar and actually start caring more and noticing what the person actually says, how and in what form. The green bar is nothing but for some show thingie in my opinion and it doesn't say anything about the person, just like how I've been de-repped randomly, I've been repped randomly as well at times, however I know this is something that doesn't just apply to me.

People should stop whining now, with this recent change, for people that disliked it or got fed up with it, you can say it's pretty much disabled now. For people that actually want a real rep system, you should realize there is a lot of work involved in managing something like that, which I doubt just Yuki could handle by herself, not to mention picking the right people to handle such issues.

In short, I think this was a good decision.
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04-12-2011   #38 (permalink)
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This really isn't up for debate. Even within staff, there's absolutely no way that we'll agree on a single course of action.

The fact is, however, that I don't have time to deal with this and it's really stupid. I JUST got a PM from a member who was legitimately upset over being called a "derp" in a reputation comment. This member IMMEDIATELY blamed zgmfx19a and then proceeded to go on about HK TW and clans at which point I finally knew what the hell he was talking about. Now, let's look at this objectively:

1. Derp isn't even in the Oxford dictionary. It's not a word. I'm wasting my time trying to console someone over an Internet meme that wasn't intended to be serious from the beginning? Bad use of time.

2. I had to go research a reputation comment so I could say 100% sure that it wasn't a staff member that left it (it wasn't by the way, but even if it was SO WHAT?) Bad use of time.

Instead of trying to do something to make the site better, I have to go on a rep witch hunt because little Johnny got called a "derp". Are you freaking kidding me?

Here's why a comment length won't work: It'll kill off positive reps. People are lazy; especially ggFTW.com members. These guys wouldn't even invite 10 people to join for chances to win $50 gift cards. However, someone fueled by rage and hate will write paragraphs and novels (see:rant forum). Once they calm down, it's back to lazy.

I kinda see the point about identifying trolls but two things. 1) there's no red bar floating above peoples' head in real life labeling them as trolls and bullies yet still somehow they get this reputation. I'm pretty confident that word of mouth will do the same thing here. 2) It's not the trolls and bullies that *get* de-reps, they're usually the ones that give them inciting massive BAW that I must take time out of trying to make this place better to go investigate. Even if I pass the buck to Yuki (which I oh-so-often do), I still have to interrupt and react.

Let's go back to the "but you can't know if they're a troll". I submit to you that even with a long red bar, if you just assume that person is a troll the first time you speak with him or her then shame on you. Shame for not having the clarity of thought to make up your own mind and blindly following what others say like a lemming. A red bar should tell you a couple of things -- that a lot of people think the person is unhelpful -- but you should always make up your own mind about a person. What if they're just misunderstood? What if they play on the HK server instead of TW (to use a VERY relevant example)? What if they just joined at a time when everyone was going through a -rep spree "for the lulz"

Why is it so difficult for a community of grown, mature gamers to either say something nice about someone or nothing at all? Why are we even having this debate? All of the points I see raised are easily dismissed. So you can't look at a long red bar and make a prejudiced opinion that the person is stupid or trolling. You can still look at a short green bar and make at least one valid deduction: 1. Not a lot of people took the time to voice that this person's posts were helpful.

Likewise, you can look at a black box and see that a person probably either does not care what people think or cares too much what people think.

I'm actually going to agree with Adura partially for once. Trolling rep is more discreet. Forcing someone to either keep their negative comments to themselves or step out from behind the cloak of anonymity will almost certainly led to the decline of such comments. People love to hide behind the veil that is Internet anonymity and jeer, sneer, and take stabs at people they would otherwise not do if their names were attached. It's actually a bit sickening, rather, to see this side of my fellow human beings. Nevertheless, it happens.

My suggestion would be: If you don't like a comment someone has made, openly and maturely comment upon it and start a debate. Think that your guild is so much better than someone else's? Then why not talk about all your good points and then let the other person discuss his or her guild's good points? If you do like it, then why not add to the person's rep to show others how helpful you thought his or her post was?

Most of the lolrepdrama is either related to a person's guild or the game server on which they play. Is this really a solid measure of a person? Why should we facilitate a system of anonymous negativity and hate? Why should we create a system in which a new member can be made uncomfortable and perchance leave because someone was feeling "lulzy"?

ggFTW members are more mature than this.

This started as a response to a similar discussion in our staff forum but evolved to the point that I'd rather post it out here.
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04-12-2011   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoeJeko
I kinda see the point about identifying trolls but two things. 1) there's no red bar floating above peoples' head in real life labeling them as trolls and bullies yet still somehow they get this reputation. I'm pretty confident that word of mouth will do the same thing here. 2) It's not the trolls and bullies that *get* de-reps, they're usually the ones that give them inciting massive BAW that I must take time out of trying to make this place better to go investigate. Even if I pass the buck to Yuki (which I oh-so-often do), I still have to interrupt and react.

Let's go back to the "but you can't know if they're a troll". I submit to you that even with a long red bar, if you just assume that person is a troll the first time you speak with him or her then shame on you. Shame for not having the clarity of thought to make up your own mind and blindly following what others say like a lemming. A red bar should tell you a couple of things -- that a lot of people think the person is unhelpful -- but you should always make up your own mind about a person. What if they're just misunderstood? What if they play on the HK server instead of TW (to use a VERY relevant example)? What if they just joined at a time when everyone was going through a -rep spree "for the lulz"
Let me first state that I have no problem against this decision of yours. What I am trying to say is that it is a waste for this feature to be disabled, and I am just stating my opinion regarding it. Considering the circumstances that brought about this change, I agree it is the right decision.

About the troll thing, granted, you don't need the rep bar to judge a person. I am just saying that it serves as a useful warning for new members who just had entered the community. Say, they ask a question, and a member with a huge negative rep bar joins the discussion. They can at least be aware that the member can be potentially trolling.

It's not a big loss, and the neg rep does create more trouble than its worth in this forum, but it just leaves you standing there and noticing the benefits that disappeared due to the changes.
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Last edited by zgmfx19a; 04-12-2011 at 09:37 AM.
 
04-12-2011   #40 (permalink)
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i like the new change better this way then allowing people to - rep without reason comment my reputation lately was alot - rep without any comment made me wonder if that just 1 person - rep me all so weird not that i care about if my rep is down people know me it was just all those - rep without any comment that made me lol
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