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11-05-2008   1 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #1 (permalink)
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Default Gavist Media LLC

I've already had a few questions about this. I didn't want to announce it before a few more things were complete but I want to avoid the alternative and having the community panic thinking the site was sold.

To dispel any fears of this, MMOG was not sold.

... but it is no longer owned by Paul (NoeJeko). It is owned by Gavist Media LLC. Paul (NoeJeko) owns Gavist Media.

Here's the tl;dr so you can stop reading if you don't really care:

I needed legal liability protection in case something goes wrong with our publisher affiliations. Something did go wrong with one, actually, and it could have been bad. I also need to protect myself financially so I don't have to pay thousands extra per year in taxes. tl;dr crowd can stop here, interested people can read on...

Q. What is Gavist Media?
From Gavist's "About Us" page:

Quote:
Gavist Media, LLC is a Limited Liability company organized in the state of California on October 25, 2008. Gavist's mission is to popularize and promote MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games) - focusing more specifically on Korean-developed MMORPGs brought to the global community by English/international publishers. Gavist provides the following services to MMORPG enthusiasts:
  • A common community for interaction among gamers
  • Promoting enjoyment of the "free-to-play" games by making content available to all users
  • Working with game publishers and developers in providing a more enjoyable gaming experience
  • Promotion of MMORPGs and their associated trade and fandom through an annual convention

Gavist Media, LLC seeks to attain its goals through the MMO community site, MyMMOGames.net, an annual MMORPG convention, and affiliation/partnership with game publishers and developers. MyMMOGames.net provides discussion forums, extensive wiki databases for games, member blogs, image galleries, and an online store for MMOG/game merchandise. MyMMOGames is a community run site staffed by volunteers. More information about MMOGCon will come as it exits the planning stage and enters the execution state.
Q. What "legal protection" do you need?
This one is pretty simple. We deal with copyrighted information (game logos, character renders, etc.). If the site is sued and a person owns it, the person is sued. If the site is sued and an LLC owns it, the LLC is sued and the person running it cannot be held personally liable.

Q. What "financial protection" do you need?
It would take much longer to explain the US tax system here than I have to write this post, so if you want more information on it read up on Google. In a nutshell, I am required by law to report any money anyone gives me as income and the government taxes me on it. If I report donations and ad revenue for this site alongside my personal income, I could potentially be liable for thousands extra per year in taxes.

As an LLC, the LLC (entity) is taxed separately from my personal income. This means it has no chance of hurting my personal cash flow.

Q. So because it's a company, do you plan to make money off the site?
You betcha. Why? The more money this site makes, the more things we can offer the community. At our current growth rate, we'll need to expand the webserver by about September 2009. This time, it won't be as simple as paying $200 extra a month and getting a more powerful machine. We're at our limit with single-server power. We'll be required to operate redundant webservers and dedicated backend database servers to handle the load. This will increase our monthly bill to somewhere around $1,500 per month. So yes, we plan to make more money so we can spend more money on the community. This is also why I changed the donation policy and told everyone that donations, starting November 1, 2008, will go to any expense MMOG requires to operate.
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11-05-2008   #2 (permalink)
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I asked because there wasn't really any information about it here - only some links to it, which I found one on affiliates page and today at the bottom of this site. I the whole time knew you own Gavist Media LLC, and in turn it owns both MMOG and MMOGCon. What made ask was when I read about our new donation's policy and their future spending (specifically on projects and the no longer updating our donations/expenses thread) - which led me to think like there's something being hidden from us - something that -might be- off the scope of MMOG. Since there's much information about the projects either up to what I know, I've felt the need to ask for it - to the best of my knowledge the biggest project I know here is MMOGCon - discussed here


edit: on a side notice - us, the public (our members) also needed to know about this a little at least - otherwise it would become shocking like now lol
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Last edited by Crypt; 11-05-2008 at 03:50 PM. Reason: side notice
 
11-05-2008   #3 (permalink)
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The donation/expense thread has always only contained donations and server expenses (except for the first month). It has never included ad revenue or marketing expenses and that's why it's a "Donation and Expense" report, not a "Monthly Financial Statement".

The lack of updates for the old donation/expense thread are really simple. Any time that I put anything that isn't "server fee" I get flooded with questions regarding it - like I'm the CFO of a public company that just authorized $100,000 in dry cleaning costs and the shareholders want to know why. It's both annoying and time consuming to answer these questions - especially when they come from people that either do not donate anything or have no understanding in just what it takes to run a site of this size. I do understand the donors wanting to know where their money went and that is why I did it in the first place - to give them peace of mind. Even now, your concern is understandable and that's why I'm taking the time to answer your questions.

For peace of mind, the only projects Gavist Media operates is MyMMOGames and MMOGCon. Any future projects we take on will be formally announced - the only time a project will ever remain "under the radar" is if we're planning something that can be easily stolen from us - and we'll announce it in due time. Nothing will ever be planned and executed "under the radar" - you have my personal guarantee on that.

Gavist Media LLC is a MMORPG community services company. Anything it does must relate to MMO community services or the Articles of Organization are violated and I could face severe legal action.
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11-05-2008   #4 (permalink)
gah lol
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its about time
when i had told my boss about this site he had many accounting questions about it
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11-05-2008   #5 (permalink)
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so complex and confusing... ._.;
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11-05-2008   #6 (permalink)
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It is confusing - that's why I've tried to avoid making this announcement =[
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11-05-2008   #7 (permalink)
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I learned from my father at a young age. I understand.
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11-05-2008   #8 (permalink)
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it's not really that confusing - it's like placing a company -Gavist Media LLC in this case- in the middle and the owner stepping on it - NoeJeko still owns MMOG but not that directly anymore - he owns it thru Gavist Media LLC - which he owns now - same with MMOGCon

about my last reply - kinda sorry if it sounded kinda idk - was pissed off when I accidentally pressed the lower left mouse button (shortcut for back) and lost what I wrote - so I rewrote it lol - but my idea of what I wanted to say was half-lost
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11-05-2008   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crypt
it's not really that confusing - it's like placing a company -Gavist Media LLC in this case- in the middle and the owner stepping on it - NoeJeko still owns MMOG but not that directly anymore - he owns it thru Gavist Media LLC - which he owns now - same with MMOGCon

about my last reply - kinda sorry if it sounded kinda idk - was pissed off when I accidentally pressed the lower left mouse button (shortcut for back) and lost what I wrote - so I rewrote it lol - but my idea of what I wanted to say was half-lost
I got the impression that you got the impression that I didn't want to answer you or that I thought you had no right to know =]

No harm no foul, and you aren't the only one to ask about this so I figured I may as well make one announcement instead of having to explain it one at a time to everyone that asked. The staff have all known about it for some time but we had to keep it quiet until some paperwork was complete for legal reasons.
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11-05-2008   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks Noe for all the hard work you've done so far, I understand what you had to do (on some levels) to keep MMOG going.

I like this site because the owner takes the time and tells the community what's happening with the site. I don't see that very much in some companies these days, but I think MOG will go far :3
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11-05-2008   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoeJeko
I got the impression that you got the impression that I didn't want to answer you or that I thought you had no right to know =]
to be more clear - I thought we had no right to know - there was really no announcement or anything about it at all - but the link still leaked - MyMMOGames - MyMMOGames Affiliate Program - that's how I found out
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Last edited by Borkborkbork; 11-05-2008 at 06:16 PM.
 
11-06-2008   #12 (permalink)
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it's good to have Gavist LLC around,
for legal liability protection in case something comes up

good to know what goes around with the forums,
keep up the good work guys ^__^
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11-06-2008   #13 (permalink)
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One question - why "Gavist Media LLC"?
 
11-06-2008   #14 (permalink)
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reminds me of a simpsons episode when mr burns makes a canary the legal owner of the power plant so he cant be sued for any damages lol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hueyple
so complex and confusing... ._.;
Not really. Let's say that if there are legal problems the only responsable is gravist, even the owners of gravist are not responsable.
Here is an example: let's say that neojeko try to do a fiscal evasion, normally if he got caught is going to be jailed for some time, but if he does have a limited liability company, it's the LLC who get jailed (well, it can not be jailed because has not a phisical body the alternative for jail is the patrimonial request to the LLC and not to neojeko).
sorry if this doesn't make any sense, but the english is not my main languaje. i just tried to help to understand how a LLC works.
 
11-06-2008   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aBstraCt
One question - why "Gavist Media LLC"?
Because all of the other ideas were poor/domain name for them were taken up.
 
11-06-2008   #17 (permalink)
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@.@
i have a question...it was too confusing...
but anyway, since you said that you are not liable [as the person running it] does this mean WE can be liable?

i better reread that terms of service again...
 
11-06-2008   #18 (permalink)
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No... no user of the forum can held liable for the site's financial debts >.>

You can *always* be held personally liable for things you post - and this isn't just an MMOG thing. It applies to any forum, any blog, any site on the internet.
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11-06-2008   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aBstraCt
One question - why "Gavist Media LLC"?
Referring to his first mmo char, if not mistaken :x
 
11-25-2008   #20 (permalink)
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You can think of a corporate entity as a golem in Diablo II. It takes damage for you, and dies to protect you.

You can also think of a corporate entity as a GF in FF8. When the GF dies, the summoner is still alive.
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