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02-04-2009   #1 (permalink)
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Default knowledge of how the world was created, developed, and regulated taught in school

in many public schools, Darwinian evolution is being taught in class (particularly biology)
creationism is taught in some private schools or church schools
should the religious (specifically christian) view of the origin of the universe be allowed equal footing with the scientific theories taught in public schools?
should only evolution, big bang theory, etc. be allowed to be taught in class?
should intelligent design be taught alongside unguided evolution and the students decide which view to adopt as their own?
this isn't about which view or theory is correct, it's about what should be taught in public schools

my opinion is:
it doesn't matter if we are taught that some guy named Bob farted the universe out of his ass or if we were all created in a giant factory. Knowledge of how the universe was created and developed is impractical. Your boss is never going to come up to you and ask, "so do you believe in intelligent design or darwinian evolution?" On a date with your significant other, you're not gonna be like, "hey baby, let's discuss the origins of the universe and how everything on earth was developed." Outside of the classroom, it has no practical use. The question is not whether religion should be taught alongside science in school, but rather why is evolution being taught in school in the first place? The information will neither help nor hinder your progress in life, so why learn it at all?
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02-04-2009   #2 (permalink)
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I think all of those should be taught (or at least introduced), so that the kids can decide which one they really want to believe in.
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02-04-2009   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lushe
I think all of those should be taught (or at least introduced), so that the kids can decide which one they really want to believe in.
but if what they believe in will never be useful in life, then why learn it?
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02-04-2009   #4 (permalink)
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People don't always only learn things that are useful. One is naturally curious and would like to know how (or at least the theories) the world started. I agree with you though, both evolution and creationism should be taught...but maybe in elementary schools or something. The thing is it's hard to bring up creationism without sounding like you're trying to force your religious view on other people, whereas evolution is just brought up in science subjects.
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Last edited by Point; 02-04-2009 at 10:29 PM. Reason: extra word
 
02-04-2009   #5 (permalink)
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Probably because in a Biology class you'd be introduced to basic genetics, and when you discuss Mendel you'll start talking about natural selection, which eventually leads you to a discussion on evolution.

I think public schools should be secular since they cater to a broad spectrum of students, believers and non-believers alike. Implementing standardized religious classes would be a nightmare...and pointless anyway. So yes, I think if you're in a science class in a public school it's reasonable to learn about Darwinian evolution. Pushing intelligent design/creationism would be better suited for a non-secular environment in a religious school.

As far as what should be taught...like I said, at an elementary level, it's good to be exposed to a wide range of secular subjects. As you get older you can decide for yourself if you want to equip yourself with skills for the corporate world or delve into academia.
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02-04-2009   #6 (permalink)
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i know alot of what we learn is not useful
so why learn it?

you say that people are "naturally curious"
how is that relevant to what should be taught?
even if curiosity is a valid reason to be taught something, does creationism, intelligent design, or evolution, etc. solve the curiosity of how the world was created and developed?
they give no solid answers, and even if they did the answer would be impractical
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02-04-2009   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatThePhuc
i know alot of what we learn is not useful
so why learn it?
So you can go on "Who wants to be a Millionare!?" of course. That's so obvious. Man you're stupid.
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02-04-2009   #8 (permalink)
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Keep the church-babble out of public school, and keep the evolution-babble out of religious school. Your teacher is going to end up biased one way or the other and I don't know about you, but I'd rather not get an A in class one year and a D in it next year because the two teachers had differing opinions on who farted what out their factory.
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02-04-2009   #9 (permalink)
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Darwinism belongs to the Science class, and Creationism in the Theology class. There's no reason they should not be both taught in the classroom.

The reason why people are so confused about these theories is that there isn't enough knowledge on them imparted in an OBJECTIVE manner. A science teacher would present the theory of Evolution with all its facts and flaws, while a Theology professor should present Creationism as a story in the Bible with all of its criticisms and implications.

If a child learns about Creationism from a very traditional pastor or a priest or even very devout parents, they might insist on them as unquestionable truth and take the Bible literally. However, if Creationism is taught properly in the classroom, the student would be able to bring up questions such as, "Was the world literally created in 7 days?" A worthwhile professor would be able to address these. "The story itself is metaphorical and serves to enunciate the omnipotence of God as a Creator," or "How are you so sure that the Genesis is not just a metaphor for the Big Bang Theory?" A healthy discourse is available within the classroom, and the student is given the chance to analyze something before coming to a conclusion.

A classroom setting for Theology is crucial, IMO. The kids will hear about Adam and Eve one way or another, so it's best that they learn about it properly.



(Moreover, I'm getting sick of all these kids running around saying one theory is bullshit when they don't know enough about EITHER of them to spout so much self-righteous indignation. It gives migraines to people with actual education on them.)
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02-04-2009   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentao
So you can go on "Who wants to be a Millionare!?" of course. That's so obvious. Man you're stupid.
yea i saw the episode with you in it
i'm gonna be on the show myself in a few days
my knowledge of darwinian evolution and intelligent design will finally come in handy
YES!
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02-04-2009   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatThePhuc
i know alot of what we learn is not useful
so why learn it?
Well..when we satisfy our curiosity it makes us happy right? Therefore we learn it to makes us feel good? Iono, this question seems dangerously close to a question like "why do we do things in life?"
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02-05-2009   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Point
Well..when we satisfy our curiosity it makes us happy right? Therefore we learn it to makes us feel good? Iono, this question seems dangerously close to a question like "why do we do things in life?"
if u read the rest of my post, i explained that any argument about the creation and development of the universe is flawed, so our curiosity ISN'T satisfied. Learning about creationism, intelligent design, or evolution does not give us any correct answer(s). If anything, it just gives more questions.
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02-05-2009   #13 (permalink)
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Well, not knowing the whole truth will drive some to finding the answer. For some, the basic theory can satisfy them enough that they can live happy knowing a bit about how the world started. For others, maybe they'll want to research more, until their greater curiosity is satisfied, and maybe eventually, one of them will find the answer. Saying how knowing half the answer just gives more questions and is not worthwhile is the attitude of a lazy man, one who gets frustrated when not able to answer the question.

^ is not suppose to be insulting, just speaking my mind.
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02-05-2009   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Point
Well, not knowing the whole truth will drive some to finding the answer. For some, the basic theory can satisfy them enough that they can live happy knowing a bit about how the world started. For others, maybe they'll want to research more, until their greater curiosity is satisfied, and maybe eventually, one of them will find the answer. Saying how knowing half the answer just gives more questions and is not worthwhile is the attitude of a lazy man, one who gets frustrated when not able to answer the question.

^ is not suppose to be insulting, just speaking my mind.
well yea, you're speaking YOUR mind, but what about everyone else?
will EVERYONE be satisfied with learning only "possible answers"?
we're talking about public schools, not just a school for only you
if YOU are satisfied with not knowing the whole truth, that doesn't say much about what should be taught for everyone else
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02-05-2009   #15 (permalink)
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I think I posted earlier that I agree with you, that both theories should be taught. I was only disagreeing with you when you said that it's pointless to learn them because they don't give you the actual answer (since no one knows). I just think that, when given a half-solved problem, instead of saying it's a waste of time and abandoning it, we should try to solve it instead, since we're already half way there.
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02-05-2009   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Point
I think I posted earlier that I agree with you, that both theories should be taught. I was only disagreeing with you when you said that it's pointless to learn them because they don't give you the actual answer (since no one knows). I just think that, when given a half-solved problem, instead of saying it's a waste of time and abandoning it, we should try to solve it instead, since we're already half way there.
EDIT:
oh, there's a misunderstanding
my opinion is that nothing should be taught at all regarding the creation and development of the universe
not that both should be taught
and i said that it's pointless to learn because the information is not USEFUL, not that it's not correct
i'm arguing based on practicality
knowing how the universe was created will not help nor hinder your progress in life

see, i thought u were saying that public schools should be taught intelligent design and darwinian evolution because EVERYONE'S curiosity would be satisfied with knowing those possible solutions
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02-05-2009   #17 (permalink)
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*I can't speak much for creationism, which I don't believe in, but I do agree that they (creationism, big bang theory, etc) should stay in there repective fields of study (ie. big bang theory-science, creationism-theology). There is also the "Seperation of Church and State" thing for us in the U.S.

Isn't school (especially biology, which I think is a core class in high/middle school, which just happens to have the Big bang theory and Darwinism for its subjects) suppose to teach a wide range of subjects so that students can decide for themselves what they are interested in and want to pursue. By removing/not teaching a subject, you are not exposing the students to something they might be interested in however practical or impractical (according to you) it is in real/common life.
*If you look at sience/astonomy/etc., there are a lot of topics/subjects that would seem impractical in real/common life that people love and work in.

You kind of sound like some of the people that ask "Why are they teaching this? They should just stop teaching this" just because its boring and they are not intersted in it.
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02-05-2009   #18 (permalink)
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o.O
i never said anything about "boring" or "not interested"
no one has yet to give an example of how knowing how the universe was created and developed is useful in life
i'm talking about USEFULNESS, not how boring or uninteresting it is

as for "subjects that would seem impractical that people love and work in", that still does not say anything about what OUGHT to be because it's only saying what IS
some people like the smell of gasoline. SHOULD they?
some people believe the holocaust did not exist. SHOULD they?
some people don't eat pork. SHOULD they?
the way things ARE and the way things SHOULD be are two different things, unless you believe that everything happens for a reason
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02-05-2009   #19 (permalink)
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Your definition of what is "useful" is too utilitarian, IMO. Yes, you will never need it in your future job or in your daily affairs. However, humans are not all about utilitarianism and productivity. If that were the case, people wouldn't wonder about the so-called "meaning of life" and going on journeys to "find myself and my purpose". Countless students wouldn't be taking bachelor degrees in Philosophy and Humanities.

People have questions. Some feel restless when they're unaware of their origins, since they connect it to their purpose in life. Getting some information from an academic source feeds them something to chew on, to start with in their own personal quests for answers and self-discovery.

There are others who just don't care about things that not "practical", students who would not bother with taking up units in Pop Culture, Metaphysics, and other studies that are not useful in day-to-day tasks compared to courses like Advertising 101, Macroeconomics, and Statistics. They don't even care if there is a God, or if the Earth came from a cereal box since it's irrelevant to their activities. Still, "usefulness", much like the economists' perception of utility, varies depending on the person's interests and goals.
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02-05-2009   #20 (permalink)
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since "usefulness" varies depending on the person, should it still be mandatory to learn about the origins of the world?
or voluntary?
from personal experience, learning about darwinism in biology in high school was mandatory, not voluntary
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