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07-21-2013   #261 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Henreh
This. Out of all the F2P games I used to play (TERA, RIFT, APB, LoL, Dota2) there was never one time where I thought "Oh that guy is P2W".
APB and TERA are bad examples to use. The cash shop provides a massive advantage in these two games. Its not as noticeable in TERA since the economy is overflowing with items being sold at X prices from CS, but the said items puts you very far ahead of the competition.
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07-21-2013   #262 (permalink)
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The only F2P model I enjoy is Rift's. And that really only worked so well because it has been P2P for such a long time that enough people have been faithful to the game, as well as having quite a few people interested waiting on the outside. Then when they opened it up, a huge surge of people decided to try it out and were quite pleased with the meager $5 to unlock the Auction House.

I mean, at $13/month FFXIV isn't that bad
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07-21-2013   #263 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Faith
APB and TERA are bad examples to use. The cash shop provides a massive advantage in these two games. Its not as noticeable in TERA since the economy is overflowing with items being sold at X prices from CS, but the said items puts you very far ahead of the competition.
No. I didn't play TERA for more than 2 months but I still had no issue making money or dealing with instances. I've played APB for 3+ years now, the P2W perception is just ignorance. I haven't spent a dime on the game since I bought it 3 years ago and only used what was offered in the game. It's not a bad model to use because those two games are more skill based than FFXIV. You want to see p2w go look at the Nexon/Perfect World games.
 
07-21-2013   #264 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henreh
No. I didn't play TERA for more than 2 months but I still had no issue making money or dealing with instances. I've played APB for 3+ years now, the P2W perception is just ignorance. I haven't spent a dime on the game since I bought it 3 years ago and only used what was offered in the game. It's not a bad model to use because those two games are more skill based than FFXIV. You want to see p2w go look at the Nexon/Perfect World games.
Even Nexon games aren't pay2win, they're just pay2winfaster. A good player in a Nexon game can still succeed faster than someone who's cashing out week after week.

TERA is completely skill based this is true, and really you don't NEED to cash out to play it. I still paid a bit but that's because they had such nice costumes ;; But you already get mounts in game anyway, you don't need pets, you don't need strongbox keys, you don't NEED anything from their cash shop. A few of the things will help you earn money faster but by endgame you'll be earning money stupid fast anyway, and endgame takes less than a month to reach.

FFXIV absolutely not skill-based but it's still decently fun to play. I'm still undecided on whether or not I wanna pre-order it though, I'll wait until after the next CBT to make my decision.
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07-21-2013   #265 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlequin
Even Nexon games aren't pay2win, they're just pay2winfaster. A good player in a Nexon game can still succeed faster than someone who's cashing out week after week.
You funny guy! Mabi is definitely P2W to an extent, at the very least you need some pets because the inv space and etc. is practically mandatory. Some of the pets are OP as hell too, god damn. Also, faster rebirth etc. etc.

DFO was similar, need some money into stash, avatars mattered since they gave very desirable and effective stats, blah blah. Was better than mabi by a bit though, could at the very least very....very....very....very....very....very....ve ry................slowly farm up the items/gold needed to buy the avatars and such.
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07-21-2013   #266 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoflKnife
You funny guy! Mabi is definitely P2W to an extent, at the very least you need some pets because the inv space and etc. is practically mandatory. Some of the pets are OP as hell too, god damn. Also, faster rebirth etc. etc.

DFO was similar, need some money into stash, avatars mattered since they gave very desirable and effective stats, blah blah. Was better than mabi by a bit though, could at the very least very....very....very....very....very....very....ve ry................slowly farm up the items/gold needed to buy the avatars and such.
They've recently given free inventory plus in mabi, and with the fact that you can buy extra bags from other players or NPC shops, you can easily have enough space to live off of. The only reason I even have pets on there now is because I have hoarder tendencies, I could honestly do without anything outside of just my bag. Plus, free rebirths every 3 weeks. I know and am guildmates with people who don't pay at all and who many in our server would call some of the most successful players.
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07-21-2013   #267 (permalink)
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I thought that this was obvious. If you want to be good, you either dump a shitload of money or a shitload of time into mmos. No mmo has a high skill cap.

While I'm going there, this whole esports for mmo players thing has to stop. There's a simple reason for the failure of WoW pvp and FPS games as esports. It's not spectator friendly.
 
07-22-2013   #268 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowBro
I thought that this was obvious. If you want to be good, you either dump a shitload of money or a shitload of time into mmos. No mmo has a high skill cap.

While I'm going there, this whole esports for mmo players thing has to stop. There's a simple reason for the failure of WoW pvp and FPS games as esports. It's not spectator friendly.
Why are normal sports successful then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlequin
They've recently given free inventory plus in mabi, and with the fact that you can buy extra bags from other players or NPC shops, you can easily have enough space to live off of. The only reason I even have pets on there now is because I have hoarder tendencies, I could honestly do without anything outside of just my bag. Plus, free rebirths every 3 weeks. I know and am guildmates with people who don't pay at all and who many in our server would call some of the most successful players.
Have two players of equal skill play the game the same amount of time. Now give one money to spend on the cash shop. Who's going to be more "successful"?
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07-22-2013   #269 (permalink)
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Normal sports are spectator friendly though. You don't have to play the game or have commentators spoon feed you information to parse what's happening on the screen. Moreover physical sports are visually appealing.

Watching this WoW match is an exercise in frustration:
 
07-22-2013   #270 (permalink)
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WoW is a rather ugly game, just pick one with pretty graphics. You don't have to play games either, just know the rules. Like with normal sports. I know a lot of people that don't play a sport, but they watch it. If you watched a sport without knowing any of the rules, it'd be shitty too. The commentators don't have to spoonfeed you either, same as sports commentators don't have to.

I think the real problem is the popularity of games and their stigma. Everyone gets introduced to sports in school, everyone is told how great sports are for you, and it already has a well established sports league and fanbase. Meanwhile, not everyone plays games, and a lot of people think it's childish, or is bad for you, causes violence, etc. etc. The media doesn't help. You tell anyone you're a professional basketball player, or skater, or something, and anyone will be impressed and praise you. You tell them you're a professional Counterstrike player, and at least half of them won't know what you're a professional in, and most of the others will be laughing at you, or give you an awkward respond. Enjoy your one or two people that actually understands.
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07-22-2013   #271 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoflKnife
WoW is a rather ugly game, just pick one with pretty graphics.
I played GW2 for a month and still don't know what's happening or who's winning. It doesn't even look pretty. I'm pretty sure it's the fault of the 3D view and how hard it is to show the "action" across the entire map.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RoflKnife
You don't have to play games either, just know the rules. Like with normal sports. I know a lot of people that don't play a sport, but they watch it. If you watched a sport without knowing any of the rules, it'd be shitty too. The commentators don't have to spoonfeed you either, same as sports commentators don't have to.
I know alot of people like that too. The problem is the effort involved in learning the rules. I can watch a hockey game at a bar and know who's winning and losing without ever playing it. For MMO's, it's alot of work to understand the strategy, skills being used, and which character does what. And the worst part is, most of the time the skills don't stand out. There are no obvious visual cues. League of legends has done well in this regard. And the in-game announcer hyping up kills and objectives helps too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoflKnife
I think the real problem is the popularity of games and their stigma. Everyone gets introduced to sports in school, everyone is told how great sports are for you, and it already has a well established sports league and fanbase. Meanwhile, not everyone plays games, and a lot of people think it's childish, or is bad for you, causes violence, etc. etc. The media doesn't help. You tell anyone you're a professional basketball player, or skater, or something, and anyone will be impressed and praise you. You tell them you're a professional Counterstrike player, and at least half of them won't know what you're a professional in, and most of the others will be laughing at you, or give you an awkward respond. Enjoy your one or two people that actually understands.
The stigma problem is apparent with any video game. Any gamer should have experienced it at least once. I'm talking about MMO's vs all the current esports like SC2, BW, fighting games, League, Dota2. It's not like MMO's aren't popular, they just aren't spectator sports.
 
07-22-2013   #272 (permalink)
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I would agree if you specify tab-target MMORPGs and the like only. You can tell who's winning with scoreboards in games as well. As for the strategy and etc, it depends on the game.

Quote:
And the worst part is, most of the time the skills don't stand out. There are no obvious visual cues. League of legends has done well in this regard.
Is pretty telling though. Yet, it's possibly the most popular game worldwide and nets huge audiences. The power of popularity.
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07-22-2013   #273 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoflKnife
I would agree if you specify tab-target MMORPGs and the like only. You can tell who's winning with scoreboards in games as well. As for the strategy and etc, it depends on the game.
Winning and losing can't always be expressed in numbers. Just like KDA doesn't paint a complete picture of a player's contribution to the team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoflKnife
Is pretty telling though. Yet, it's possibly the most popular game worldwide and nets huge audiences. The power of popularity.
Are you saying League's skills don't stand out...? Sorry if I wasn't clear.
 
07-23-2013   #274 (permalink)
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Quote:
Winning and losing can't always be expressed in numbers. Just like KDA doesn't paint a complete picture of a player's contribution to the team.
Majority can be, but yes it does depend on the game.

Thought you meant LoL skills didn't.



S4 should fit the bill as an FPS-- er TPS that would work. Maybe needs a bit of work here and there, but mostly fits.
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08-21-2013   #275 (permalink)
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Early access this weekend!

Some gee gees and I are playing on Gilgamesh, if anyone is wondering.
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08-22-2013   #276 (permalink)
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i hear gilgamesh is gonna be crowded as hell due to all the streamers and their fanbase joining that server. part of me doesnt want to attempt going there at all D:
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08-22-2013   #277 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tea
i hear gilgamesh is gonna be crowded as hell due to all the streamers and their fanbase joining that server. part of me doesnt want to attempt going there at all D:
Heh. Heh.
I kinda wanna to see a densely populated areas in games again actually.
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08-22-2013   #278 (permalink)
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I still prefer Cactuar because:



But I'll be moving I guess, and assuming RK will move too. If he's still gonna be playing anyway. I DUNNO. I WANT TO BE A CACTUS STILL.

Plus Tea just put the fear into me, fearing the streamers zzz
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08-22-2013   #279 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tea
i hear gilgamesh is gonna be crowded as hell due to all the streamers and their fanbase joining that server. part of me doesnt want to attempt going there at all D:
It's also the supposed RP server...
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08-22-2013   #280 (permalink)
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The population is bound to drop off quite a bit after the first month or so, so I'd rather play a server that is crowded now.

I honestly don't know anything about streamers, but I didn't run into anyone really obnoxious in P4.
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