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RoflKnife 02-11-2013 07:43 AM

Disturbing video game industry speech
 


So this was rather offputting to me. If anyone on this site has any love for video games at all, which I assume you all do since you're here, then take a look at the video. At a video game conference, his speech consisted of:

Advising developers to release only trailers, and no demos of their games and putting out a demo with or without a trailer about halves your sales:
What the hell? Does anyone else see how ****ed up this is? Perhaps it's because people found the game wasn't very good? Doesn't it strike anyone as scummish, greedy, and bullshit to be purposely trying to sell their product by releasing as little information ad possible about it? What the hell? Jesus all mighty...and god forbid that a good game with a good demo doesn't convince people to buy the game, eh?

"It's not enough to make a good game anymore":
I'm speechless by this. This is absurd. As absurd as, "It's not enough to make a good movie anymore, it's not enough to make a TV anymore, it's not enough to make a good bed anymore, it's not enough to make a good house anymore..." etc. What kind of bullshit...

A magical interface is needed:
His daughter example with the old fashioned controller and the camera interface made me cringe. Look here, the PS Move and the Kinect was a joke, sure they were cool while being developed and are a neat idea, but no one really gives a shit because they aren't perfect, and most importantly, their games suck. Oh, the Wii, the 3DS, the NDS sold well? It certainly wasn't also because they had good games. Nope. No way. It's never the quality of the games, the dev is never at fault.

God damn.

LauraMix 02-11-2013 10:02 AM

This really scares me about Future of Gaming.

Saibak 02-11-2013 10:34 AM

Games get more sales with trailers only than games with trailers and a demo? Of course. With very well made trailers you can create a hype for even the crappiest games. Then the customers´ remorse kicks in, because they realize the newly bought game sucks.
I´d like to see a graph, which shows how many more times a game gets pirated when a demo is available or not.

SlowBro 02-11-2013 12:55 PM

brb utopia

Veloze 02-11-2013 01:24 PM

"Don't let the world know how shitty your game is until after they paid for it!"

Firzin 02-11-2013 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoflKnife (Post 1804206)
Advising developers to release only trailers, and no demos of their games and putting out a demo with or without a trailer about halves your sales:
What the hell? Does anyone else see how ****ed up this is? Perhaps it's because people found the game wasn't very good? Doesn't it strike anyone as scummish, greedy, and bullshit to be purposely trying to sell their product by releasing as little information ad possible about it? What the hell? Jesus all mighty...and god forbid that a good game with a good demo doesn't convince people to buy the game, eh?

He didn't advise developers to just release trailers at all. All he did was show statistics from EEDAR regarding how people reacted to demos/trailers. If he was openly telling developers to just release trailers it would be a different story but he didn't even do that. Hell, one of the major points of the presentation was telling developers NOT to screw the players over. Not only that the whole point of showing that graph in the first place was to illustrate that developers should give players goals in a game.

The whole video is about mechanisms that should be looked into for game development. What you're doing is applying what he said to a totally different subject. Granted, the graph may have given developers the idea of just releasing trailers but that does not mean he was endorsing it at all.


Quote:

Originally Posted by RoflKnife (Post 1804206)
"It's not enough to make a good game anymore":
I'm speechless by this. This is absurd. As absurd as, "It's not enough to make a good movie anymore, it's not enough to make a TV anymore, it's not enough to make a good bed anymore, it's not enough to make a good house anymore..." etc. What kind of bullshit...

You just took one sentence out of what was a whole monologue out of context. Right after that sentence was to tell developers to make games that makes people drawn into it and consider life changing;all that Utopia stuff he was spouting out. It's the same way how many of the movies considered good nowadays give people new viewpoints on various issues in the world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoflKnife (Post 1804206)
A magical interface is needed:
His daughter example with the old fashioned controller and the camera interface made me cringe. Look here, the PS Move and the Kinect was a joke, sure they were cool while being developed and are a neat idea, but no one really gives a shit because they aren't perfect, and most importantly, their games suck. Oh, the Wii, the 3DS, the NDS sold well? It certainly wasn't also because they had good games. Nope. No way. It's never the quality of the games, the dev is never at fault.

"The world is changing, we need more magical interfaces."

Another way to look at that is just saying that the new generation of gamers want more ways to interact with games.

RoflKnife 02-11-2013 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firzin (Post 1804307)
He didn't advise developers to just release trailers at all. All he did was show statistics from EEDAR regarding how people reacted to demos/trailers. If he was openly telling developers to just release trailers it would be a different story but he didn't even do that. Hell, one of the major points of the presentation was telling developers NOT to screw the players over. Not only that the whole point of showing that graph in the first place was to illustrate that developers should give players goals in a game.

The whole video is about mechanisms that should be looked into for game development. What you're doing is applying what he said to a totally different subject. Granted, the graph may have given developers the idea of just releasing trailers but that does not mean he was endorsing it at all.

It's the same as if I just brought up casually in a conversation, "Hey, did you know that X actually has more DPS than Y?" to a person playing a DPS class. You're telling a certain group of people a piece of information that is in 99% of their best interests. You don't have to outright straight up tell people what to do to suggest them to do something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firzin (Post 1804307)
You just took one sentence out of what was a whole monologue out of context. Right after that sentence was to tell developers to make games that makes people drawn into it and consider life changing;all that Utopia stuff he was spouting out. It's the same way how many of the movies considered good nowadays give people new viewpoints on various issues in the world.

A game doesn't have to change your life to be good, and every game doesn't have to aim to do that. What's wrong with just a genuinely good game? I like games. You like games. I assume we enjoy playing good games. The utopia topic just seems like a way to push in the subtext.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firzin (Post 1804307)
"The world is changing, we need more magical interfaces."

Another way to look at that is just saying that the new generation of gamers want more ways to interact with games.

My two brothers have no problem playing with their Wii, 360, DS, or PC at all. If his anecdote is legit, so is mine. And the way he used his anecdote and the way he said it indicates a disapproving tone or one of dislike. Why couldn't he just say what you said then?

Firzin 02-11-2013 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoflKnife (Post 1804334)
It's the same as if I just brought up casually in a conversation, "Hey, did you know that X actually has more DPS than Y?" to a person playing a DPS class. You're telling a certain group of people a piece of information that is in 99% of their best interests. You don't have to outright straight up tell people what to do to suggest them to do something.

Yes, you don't have to outright tell people to suggest something. But if his intention was to be greedy as you said he was why would he tell the game developers to make fair payments as one of his key points. He even touches on some of the problems of F2P/DLC that we all know too well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoflKnife (Post 1804334)
A game doesn't have to change your life to be good, and every game doesn't have to aim to do that. What's wrong with just a genuinely good game? I like games. You like games. I assume we enjoy playing good games. The utopia topic just seems like a way to push in the subtext.

Except all great game series most likely have changed your life in some way, shape or form. Playing a good game can make you fall in love with a new genre of games that you never even though of touching before. It can make you a dedicated fan of a series/developer. An even more basic example is that you played a good game back when you were young and fell in love with gaming because of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoflKnife (Post 1804334)
My two brothers have no problem playing with their Wii, 360, DS, or PC at all. If his anecdote is legit, so is mine. And the way he used his anecdote and the way he said it indicates a disapproving tone or one of dislike. Why couldn't he just say what you said then?

The DS and Wii certainly have good games yet a majority of their top selling titles are ones that utilize the new control scheme perfectly. So yes, good games made the consoles sell but the new type of game play by touchscreen and Wii-mote were also a large part of it. It does seem like he has a disapproving view of game pads but that doesn't take away from his main point which is finding new methods to interact with games.

RoflKnife 02-12-2013 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firzin (Post 1804352)
Yes, you don't have to outright tell people to suggest something. But if his intention was to be greedy as you said he was why would he tell the game developers to make fair payments as one of his key points. He even touches on some of the problems of F2P/DLC that we all know too well.

There's nothing wrong with F2P, unless it's actually P2W with cash shop. He touched on it with D3, but pinged it on the fact that you don't "play" the game for it, instead of P2W. Both reasons are no no's for games, but it strikes me very odd he only covered one side of the problem. If the DLC part you're talking about is the pay per ride instead of pay for everything, there's nothing wrong with that type of payment model either if done right. DDO and LOTRO changed to that exact payment model, where they give you a base set of content for free, then you pay for whatever content you choose after a bit. The content could be paid for by playing the game or with real money, granted the amount of time it would take for you to gather enough cash shop points from playing the game could be instead spent on the much more efficient method of just working a job and then paying with real cash. Buy what features I want, buy what content I want, skip what I'm not interested in. What's not to like?

That type of payment model is probably my favourite kind, on par with F2P with cosmetic cash shopping. It raked in more money for the company as well. What he didn't address, was the DLC that actually causes problems. Day 1 DLC, overpriced crap like $15 for 6 maps and a handful of weapons or something. Again, strikes me as odd, but pair it up with the other oddities...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firzin (Post 1804352)
Except all great game series most likely have changed your life in some way, shape or form. Playing a good game can make you fall in love with a new genre of games that you never even though of touching before. It can make you a dedicated fan of a series/developer. An even more basic example is that you played a good game back when you were young and fell in love with gaming because of it.

If they made me a fan of a series or developer, or made me love games because of it, it was because the game in question was good. The game was fun, I enjoyed it, I want to see more of similar games or a continuation of it from this developer! Our points kind of go hand in hand in this one actually. Yes it technically did change my life this way, but it was because the game was good.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Firzin (Post 1804352)
The DS and Wii certainly have good games yet a majority of their top selling titles are ones that utilize the new control scheme perfectly. So yes, good games made the consoles sell but the new type of game play by touchscreen and Wii-mote were also a large part of it. It does seem like he has a disapproving view of game pads but that doesn't take away from his main point which is finding new methods to interact with games.

I'd say the fact the games were good was a far bigger part, and the interaction type was the supporting role. Again, look at the PS Move and the Kinect. I haven't heard anything newsworthy about those two mechanics since a month or so after it launched, much less any fun games that used it well. However, for the the NDS and Wii, you hear plenty of great games on them. The World Ends With You, Skyward Sword, Castlevanias, etc. So isolating the differences, which is the quality of the game, the conclusion should be that the control schemes of the NDS/Wii were successful largely in part the games library was good. And because other consoles and games without more interactive controls are also successful like the PS2 and such, the different interaction mechanics is actually completely optional.

He talks a lot about the Utopia analogy, but never does he ever specifically mention the quality of the games, or the actual real problems of low sales and what not. Coupled with the oddities I pointed out and the things he talks about, this leads me to believe he's just using this seemingly nice facade for the subtext. And as a backup flimsy but technically arguable defense in case he's called out.

Tardar 02-12-2013 02:44 PM

I kind of lol'd.

poringslasher 02-14-2013 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saibak (Post 1804227)
Games get more sales with trailers only than games with trailers and a demo? Of course. With very well made trailers you can create a hype for even the crappiest games. Then the customers´ remorse kicks in, because they realize the newly bought game sucks.
I´d like to see a graph, which shows how many more times a game gets pirated when a demo is available or not.

this is oh so true. there are a lot of crappy games out there that sold a lot of copies because of the hype those trailers caused. i agree with you 100% brother.

Sanichi 02-14-2013 10:46 AM



I'll leave this here.


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