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10-27-2009   #1 (permalink)
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Default Yeah I'm Pretty New... o:

Just curious, I'm going to start playing DFO, and would like some insight in how the game works.

-Combo System

How exactly does it work?
From what I've seen, it's just putting skills together, and I realize level of skill effects height, but what else?

-Super Armor
So... You can't be hit during these frames correct?, Which skills have them, and or how can you tell?

-Build
I get that 1-17 or w/e is just free for all, but after that, Is their cookie cutter builds? or Does it just vary on what you want

-Pvp
Just curious, any difference between builds?

I might submit more questions as they come up, but I'm just currently getting the feel
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10-27-2009   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsRai
Just curious, I'm going to start playing DFO, and would like some insight in how the game works.

-Combo System

How exactly does it work?
From what I've seen, it's just putting skills together, and I realize level of skill effects height, but what else?

The combo system is... probably the simplest thing you'll ever do in your life. Many combos start out as the basic dial-X combo, meaning your full chain of X attacks (Slayer 3, Fighters 4, Mage 3, Gunner 4, Priest 4?). As you advance, you can Cancel passives that let you cancel your basic dial-X combo into whatever skill the passive corresponds to. For example, a level 15 Fighter with level 5 Muse's Uppercut can get the cancel, Cancel - Muse's Uppercut. Meaning the combo can be XXXX -> use Muse's Uppercut -> whatever else you want.

It's really something you just jump in and try out for yourself to learn, honestly.


-Super Armor
So... You can't be hit during these frames correct?, Which skills have them, and or how can you tell?

Okay, super armor. You CAN be hit during frames, HOWEVER, you will have NO flinch or hit stuns, meaning you're a tank. You'll take damage and everything, but you'll throw it off like rocks. The MOST NOTABLE skills that have them are MANY character launch attacks, the first attacks you get in the game. I think only the Mages have no super armor skills, Slayers have a couple more, Fighters have a nice number, Gunners have minimal, and Priests that become Exorcists have plenty. You can tell when you have super armor by the red and yellow outline on your character.

-Build
I get that 1-17 or w/e is just free for all, but after that, Is their cookie cutter builds? or Does it just vary on what you want

Honestly, I do not suggest a cookiecutter. There are the few "MUST GET" skills on each character and class, but everything else is sort of up to you to decide, which is what makes this game more fun and unique. Builds make up your combos, so it's all up to you.

-Pvp
Just curious, any difference between builds?

There's a few differences depending on each character. A majority of them have the same principal though. You can kind of figure them out by watching a bunch of clips of DnF PvP videos.

I might submit more questions as they come up, but I'm just currently getting the feel
Hope it helps.
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10-27-2009   #3 (permalink)
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Comboing: As long as you are hitting an enemy, the combo will go up. After a certain amount of time (5 seconds ish?) of not hitting an enemy, the combo will reset back to 0.

Super Armor: While you have super armor active, you can still be hit, but you will not get knocked out of attacks when you're hit by an enemy. Basically, lets say you have a 5 second cast for a spell. If you're hit, the spell cancels, you lose mp, and have to suffer through the cooldown. If you have super armor, when you get hit, your spell doesn't interrupt and it finishes. Hopefully that makes sense.

Builds: For the most part, you do whatever you want. My advice is find a skill simulator (there are plenty in the DFO section here at /gg), and pump points for what you want, then post the results in a thread, and have others critique it. Better to get it right the first time than mess up and have to fork out 25 bucks for a skill reset :U

PvP: It all really depends on a few things: what class did you pick (priest, fighter, etc), what subclass did you pick (2nd job, pretty much), and what skills you have. After that, its for the most part how skilled are you at PvP.

I hope this helps you out.
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10-27-2009   #4 (permalink)
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Adding a few points~

You can get grabbed out of Super Armor and most grabs have invincibility frames (assuming they hit).

Every class has a launching skill given to them when you start the game, initially set to 'Z'. At level 15, you get the cancel for the skill which adds a whole new world of comboability. However, in pvp mostly, after comboing for too long, the enemy will fast fall. That's mostly to prevent infinites since they're not that hard to do.

PvP has different stats for skills as well. That's to prevent some skills from being too overpowered (though some of them still are anyways).
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10-27-2009   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsRai
Just curious, I'm going to start playing DFO, and would like some insight in how the game works.

-Combo System

How exactly does it work?
From what I've seen, it's just putting skills together, and I realize level of skill effects height, but what else?

-Super Armor
So... You can't be hit during these frames correct?, Which skills have them, and or how can you tell?

-Build
I get that 1-17 or w/e is just free for all, but after that, Is their cookie cutter builds? or Does it just vary on what you want

-Pvp
Just curious, any difference between builds?

I might submit more questions as they come up, but I'm just currently getting the feel
By definition, a combo is a chain of hits that cannot be broken in the middle. In which case, combos largely vary depending on the class. For some classes like the Blademaster and Ranger, the bulk of their combo is their normal melee attack string, with skills that raise height inbetween. With classes like the Soul Bender, you set several AoEs that buff your stats and paralyze your enemies, allowing you to spam your strongest skills. It really depends on the class.

Super Armor is noted when your character has a red-orange outline around them, signifying that they won't flinch. You will still take damage, but your attack will still go through. In PvP, it's a valuable attribute to some skills that allow some characters to interrupt their enemies without being interrupted themselves.

For the skill build, it also depends on the class. There's obviously some necessities, i.e. a skeleton build to go by, but for most classes, there is plenty of SP left over to choose what you want to max.

For PvP, it mainly depends on your skill rather than your build. Your build should cater to your style, yes, but skill is still the main factor here.
 
10-28-2009   #6 (permalink)
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oh hi Rai =]

jus a curious question, what are you planning to be?
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10-29-2009   #7 (permalink)
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-Build
I get that 1-17 or w/e is just free for all, but after that, Is their cookie cutter builds? or Does it just vary on what you want


Just about every build, for every class, contains Backstep + Backstep cancel, and Quick Rebound. I think the only class that doesn't need Backstep is the Monk, since they get a superior version (called Sway) at level 30. I can't imagine going from 18 - 30 without BS+Cancel though, so I got it on my Monk. It's only 100 points(And I have plenty of points left over in my build, especially since all Priest subclasses are basically incomplete at the moment, and missing a ton of skills).

Easiest thing to do I think, is to get all of your skills that are prerequisites for higher level skills, then start raising the skills that you like using.

The only skills that have invincibility frames, as far as I know, are grab skills. Grapplers get a ton of them, while most other classes get 1.
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10-29-2009   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaveroth
-Build
I get that 1-17 or w/e is just free for all, but after that, Is their cookie cutter builds? or Does it just vary on what you want


Just about every build, for every class, contains Backstep + Backstep cancel, and Quick Rebound. I think the only class that doesn't need Backstep is the Monk, since they get a superior version (called Sway) at level 30. I can't imagine going from 18 - 30 without BS+Cancel though, so I got it on my Monk. It's only 100 points(And I have plenty of points left over in my build, especially since all Priest subclasses are basically incomplete at the moment, and missing a ton of skills).

Easiest thing to do I think, is to get all of your skills that are prerequisites for higher level skills, then start raising the skills that you like using.

The only skills that have invincibility frames, as far as I know, are grab skills. Grapplers get a ton of them, while most other classes get 1.
I must disagree with you about Backstep and Quick Rebound, and here is why.
Putting aside reduced SP cost/Backstep + Cancel from the start patch in DnF, Backstep and Cancel costs 100 SP. This is vital SP that could be used in other skills, perhaps five levels into an active for the Cancel with extra SP, maybe last three levels to late-level skills. Not every class needs it.
Fighters, it is debatable. Personally, I don't think we need it. Our mobility is high already, it's neither used for combos, which is what we should focus on, nor is it really used to avoid attacks at all.
Mages, it would depend. Summoners and Elementalists don't need it, they shouldn't exactly be in close-range combat. Battlemages and Witches could find uses it in, but Witches tend to dash into air combos automatically, while Battlemages usually run and slam enemies with their long forward range.
Gunners probably have the best use for this. They spam shots and cancel to continue quickly.
Priests have some uses since their attacks are usually slow to cancel, but physical Exorcists spam super armor, magical Exorcists are asses with their circle crap, Monks have Sway like you said, and Crusaders... ANYWAYS.
Slayers primarily only use it for Backstep Cutter. Cancel - Triple Slash would serve better with more adjustable SP usage and multi-purposed anyways.

As for Quick Rebound, I honestly don't know why you would waste a nice 10 SP on it. Not only are you restricted from doing ANYTHING in the time of your invincibility, enemies can do a prolong frame attack that will hit you as soon as Quick Rebound goes away. SURE, it MAY be useful to avoid OTG strings or relaunches, but the use of it is still limited, as you'll probably eat more damage after they re-combo you out of Quick Rebound than if you took OTG/relaunch.

Going by prerequisites is just... ehhhhhhhhhhh.
It's better to go based on a combo you'd attempt to try, because more than likely, you'll be getting skills that have a Cancel (other than maybe non-Ranger-like Gunners) that strings together.

No skills give invincibility frame on activation. The only skills giving invincibility frames are those that give grab decision and ACTUALLY LAND, thus Grapplers have too much of that. Brawler Explosive Hook gives invincibility frame on explosion. Nen Master's Nen Guard is TECHNICALLY invincible, even if you can destroy the dome. Priest grab thing that slams you into an invisible wall. Slayer Neutral Wave Wheel and Bloodlust. Gunner Punisher on hit. Witches with ICE CAR I think.
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Last edited by Nihil679; 10-29-2009 at 10:56 PM.
 
10-29-2009   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dotKaZE
I must disagree with you about Backstep and Quick Rebound, and here is why.
Putting aside reduced SP cost/Backstep + Cancel from the start patch in DnF, Backstep and Cancel costs 100 SP. This is vital SP that could be used in other skills, perhaps five levels into an active for the Cancel with extra SP, maybe last three levels to late-level skills. Not every class needs it.
Fighters, it is debatable. Personally, I don't think we need it. Our mobility is high already, it's neither used for combos, which is what we should focus on, nor is it really used to avoid attacks at all.
Mages, it would depend. Summoners and Elementalists don't need it, they shouldn't exactly be in close-range combat. Battlemages and Witches could find uses it in, but Witches tend to dash into air combos automatically, while Battlemages usually run and slam enemies with their long forward range.
Gunners probably have the best use for this. They spam shots and cancel to continue quickly.
Priests have some uses since their attacks are usually slow to cancel, but physical Exorcists spam super armor, magical Exorcists are asses with their circle crap, Monks have Sway like you said, and Crusaders... ANYWAYS.
Slayers primarily only use it for Backstep Cutter. Cancel - Triple Slash would serve better with more adjustable SP usage and multi-purposed anyways.

As for Quick Rebound, I honestly don't know why you would waste a nice 10 SP on it. Not only are you restricted from doing ANYTHING in the time of your invincibility, enemies can do a prolong frame attack that will hit you as soon as Quick Rebound goes away. SURE, it MAY be useful to avoid OTG strings or relaunches, but the use of it is still limited, as you'll probably eat more damage after they re-combo you out of Quick Rebound than if you took OTG/relaunch.

Going by prerequisites is just... ehhhhhhhhhhh.
It's better to go based on a combo you'd attempt to try, because more than likely, you'll be getting skills that have a Cancel (other than maybe non-Ranger-like Gunners) that strings together.

No skills give invincibility frame on activation. The only skills giving invincibility frames are those that give grab decision and ACTUALLY LAND, thus Grapplers have too much of that. Brawler Explosive Hook gives invincibility frame on explosion. Nen Master's Nen Guard is TECHNICALLY invincible, even if you can destroy the dome. Priest grab thing that slams you into an invisible wall. Slayer Neutral Wave Wheel and Bloodlust. Gunner Punisher on hit. Witches with ICE CAR I think.
Waste 10 SP on it? It's only 10 SP for a skill that allows you to stand up faster and avoid horrible death. Yeah, it can get you into trouble sometimes but I rarely find the instance where using quick rebound is less safe than sitting on the ground. (Unless the enemy is far away and then it doesn't really matter!) If it says anything, a brawler would eat you alive if you didn't have quick rebound unless you like getting mounted.

Far as backstep is concerned, I've yet to find anyone who has gotten it and regretted getting it. It's just useful, overly pricey sure but unparalleled in it's usefulness.
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10-30-2009   #10 (permalink)
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I give examples of terrible situations with Quick Rebound.

Blade Masters aka RoflKnife.
Enjoy getting re-looped.

Grapplers also have a long enough grab animation to grab you as soon as you get out of Quick Rebound.
High-leveled and skilled Brawlers could also be able to time the invincibility on Rebound and punish with a standing Mount assuming they have Raging Vulcan and the status effect (because they should have inflicted one if they remotely hit you) would be there.

If you were knocked onto the ground by Gunners, it's usually by bullet spam or BBQ, grenades, or something similar. Bullet spam, you'll just Rebound right back into another round. BBQ, they'll just spam bullets like first time. Grenades are the same.

Priests can Smasher, or simply jump and Phoenix Hammer, which has a decent enough splash range to hit you as soon as you're able to move.

Every SP is useful.

I haven't gotten Backstep, and I regret it.
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10-30-2009   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dotKaZE
I give examples of terrible situations with Quick Rebound.

Blade Masters aka RoflKnife.
Enjoy getting re-looped.

Grapplers also have a long enough grab animation to grab you as soon as you get out of Quick Rebound.
High-leveled and skilled Brawlers could also be able to time the invincibility on Rebound and punish with a standing Mount assuming they have Raging Vulcan and the status effect (because they should have inflicted one if they remotely hit you) would be there.

If you were knocked onto the ground by Gunners, it's usually by bullet spam or BBQ, grenades, or something similar. Bullet spam, you'll just Rebound right back into another round. BBQ, they'll just spam bullets like first time. Grenades are the same.

Priests can Smasher, or simply jump and Phoenix Hammer, which has a decent enough splash range to hit you as soon as you're able to move.

Every SP is useful.

I haven't gotten Backstep, and I regret it.
If you're getting bullet spammed on the ground, then it's more reason for you to get up. I'd rather take only a few bullets while getting up than a full round of Magic Bullets from a Spitfire or a Headshot from a Ranger. Quick Rebound is also long enough to get through a grenade. The only way for it to hit you is if they knew you were quick standing and intentionally waited for you to get up.
 
10-30-2009   #12 (permalink)
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Protip: Hold C for Quick Rebound's full 1 sec invincibility in PvP.

Knowing how long to hold down Quick Rebound is essential to its use. Don't say it sucks just because you're tapping it and getting owned after your 0.3 sec invincibility; you're not using it to its full potential.
 
10-30-2009   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaiety
Protip: Hold C for Quick Rebound's full 1 sec invincibility in PvP.

Knowing how long to hold down Quick Rebound is essential to its use. Don't say it sucks just because you're tapping it and getting owned after your 0.3 sec invincibility; you're not using it to its full potential.
wat.

brb seppuku.

Okay, now I know Quick Rebound has more uses than what I give it credit for with the full second invincibility. But if you're already strained on SP, I really don't think it should be a top priority.
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10-30-2009   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dotKaZE
wat.

brb seppuku.

Okay, now I know Quick Rebound has more uses than what I give it credit for with the full second invincibility. But if you're already strained on SP, I really don't think it should be a top priority.
*Snickers*

That is all. 10 SP makes it a must have if you ever plan to PvP. 100% PvE people might not need it.
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10-30-2009   #15 (permalink)
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...Holy hell I didn't know you could hold it.

Excuse me while I go /headdesk repeatedly.
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