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09-28-2009   #1 (permalink)
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Default SandHandle's epic post.

I don't really have any major problems with the game, but I thought that this post was too epic to be ignored.

In case you don't wish to visit the Nexon forums (I don't blame you), here's the post in a quote.

Originally Posted by 7ophbeifong
could someone point me in the direction to the post where the issues are posted? I don't play this that much but it does take a long time to level, I mean like a very long time.
Originally Posted by SandHandle
After reading a LOT into this, I'll summarize it for you (people feel free to repost this for everyone that doesn't know):
  • The EXP curve is bad. I mean, really bad. As some players have mentioned, the requirements for leveling more than triple around level 30. Some players do not have a problem with the system so far, but the fact is this system tends to bore new players to tears, while also alienating the original players of the Korean version (or KDNF). ADDED to this fact, Nexon has not made any mention of changing it back to the original experience curve, and Hime (one of the forum moderators) has made an official announcement with the tone that this change will not be temporary.
  • Building on the above complaint, as you know, the game has a "fatigue" bar, which sets a limit to how much progress you can make in a single day. This, unfortunately, has not been scaled in tandem with the increased EXP requirements, causing a much more painful grind in certain levels (22-30 has been cited quite a bit as being the worst). Again, some players have mentioned that this system is fine, and that they are even glad that it has been implemented, because they could care less about the grind, and simply enjoy partying with their friends. This, however, is severely hampered by...
  • LAG. As you may or may not be aware, DNF and DFO is a game that runs in P2P mode in dungeons (the same protocols that MAME is run with). This means that information is distributed from player to player, as opposed to Player to server to Player. This does two things: First, it allows the game to run much smoother, as there is no lag from the server. Using this system allows for much better PVP as button presses are communicated immediately without needing to go through a mediator. Secondly, it eases load on the servers themselves, which is always a good thing. This system is excellent in Korea, where all of the internet networks are very well integrated and connected to one another. UNFORTUNATELY, this system absolutely fails in the US. P2P is not necessarily looked upon fondly by ISPs in the US, and some companies actually block P2P connection on their networks, which means that players cannot play in parties at all. This was not apparent to players of the Closed Beta of DFO, because at the time, the number of players was small, so the game was being run server-based, instead of P2P. For those who can use P2P connections, another problem arises. There are many different types of connections within the US, Canada, and Mexico, and, again unfortunately, P2P MMOs suffer TREMENDOUSLY from even the smallest drop in network synchronization, causing exponential lag. What this all means is that for the majority of players, parties of 3+ are almost unheard-of, because the chance of lag and dungeon-freeze increases drastically with each new party member, leading to further aggravation because of the "Frustration" status effect, and lost "Fatigue" points essentially wasted when you are forced to exit a dungeon. The chance of lag also increases the longer a party stays in a dungeon, meaning that many, many players will experience lag only at the boss of the dungeon, because it usually takes the longest to complete. ANOTHER problem is that players on the same connection can not play with people on different connections, so forget about playing with your friend in the same room, unless they have expensive, crappy 3G access. This would all be solved if Nexon shelled out the money for dungeon-only servers. P2P MMOs were created as a HACK (a buggy one), for use only by those with the knowledge and technical skill to get around the limitations of using such a system. Most players of F2P games are argueably not so tech-savvy, which leads to major lag.
  • The Coin system. This was an interesting, unique system, only allowing players 5 coins at the start of the game, and resetting the coins to 3 each day (assuming you used more than 2 coins since you began), regardless of whether or not you had used them. This was implemented to make the game feel like more of a coin-operated arcade machine, giving the players incentive to finish levels without using any coins (lives), but also not punishing those who did (using a coin instantly increases your completion rank for a dungeon by a whole letter). Players can also revive party members if they need the help and can spare the coins. BUT, the NA version (DFO) has reduced the amount of maximum coins to ONE per day, as opposed to 3. This has angered a lot of players for the reason that the fundamental way the coin system operates is now turned on its head. The Item Menu in-game will now show either a 1 or a 0 for the amount of coins you have, as a constant reminder that KDNF has a purpose for the 's' in "coins", and players will now be much stingier with their coins (especially if a coin cash-shop item is released), which leads to confrontation between players ("dude, i gave you that coin and you wasted it!!! That was my last ****ing coin! I swear this is the last time I res you")
  • Players are also angry because it is well known that NA Nexon has a track record for messing with game-changing algorithms (EXP rate, drop rate, etc.), fixed within the original game to be BALANCED, not to make the game more fun, but to greedilly pressure players to buy items with real money just to make the game play like the foreign counterpart (EXP cards, drop cards, probably coin cards soon too). This balance is completely destroyed, because anyone who plays games a lot knows that the smallest changes can create drastically different gameplay if implemented without thinking about the consequences (and often even when the developers know what they are doing), so Nexon DOUBLING the EXP requirements for some levels is almost unfathomable, and throws everything off, causing a domino-effect of frustration in players and PVPer's.
  • The Captcha System. Captchas are useful for slowing the progress of bots in games, but in DFO, captchas serve only to annoy players with absurd amounts of checking, leaving in-town spammers scott-free to flood the message boxes of players with links to pay-per-gold sites. IF the captcha system is to remain implemented, it is absurd to ask the players to enter the captcha in the MIDDLE OF A BOSS BATTLE OR ANY OTHER BATTLE FOR THAT MATTER. Not to mention the sheer amount of captchas that appear, which is ridiculous as a bot would have failed after some 10 captchas at most (some players mention having to respond to captcha requests every few seconds). The captcha system is made so that if a player who enters the wrong code 3 times in a row will be booted from the game, which is fine, but any player who gets more than 10 wrong captchas during the entire game will be permanently banned. Mistakes do happen! This system as it stands means that it is not a matter of if you will be banned, but when. Some people argue that the dungeon-going bots are the source of the gold, but it is just as easy for chinese gold-selling companies to hire players that can easilly bypass captchas and be paid almost nothing, and still turn a huge profit. ONE moderator would be enough to handle the bots in towns, just one!

The most prominent issue, however is:

Nexon. Long-time players of Nexon games know that the head people at NA Nexon care little about the concerns of their players, choosing to release patches or port games only if they think it will make more money. They don't care about the game, they don't care about the developers, and, most importantly, they don't care about you, the players. They are not interested in making a game "fun", only in making it profitable. Unfortunately, what Nexon doesn't seem to understand and fails to understand time and time again, is that the point of Free to Play (F2P) games is to make a game that is inherently fun to play, and charge players real money to get in-game items that are (ready for this?) NOT NECESSARY TO PLAY THE GAME AS IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED. We are not angry that Nexon is charging real money for in-game items, we are angry because we are being charged money to play the same way that Koreans with DNF can play for FREE, like we are being punished for not living in Korea or something (we are really essentially punished for being apathetic, and not joining together to make ourselves heard. The company should be formed around the buyers, not the other way around. Happier players will spend more money, this is not rocket science).

The Korean model of DNF is a very good example of how to run a F2P game. Players are not pressured to buy items with real money, especially if they do not plan to PVP. Basically it's the true interpretation of NA Nexon's goal of letting players buy items only if they are having fun. These aesthetic equipments can be bought separately, letting you buy exactly what you want, and giving you the option to buy it FOREVER (someone said that most players don't even touch the temporary items in KDNF). This is exactly opposite of what NA Nexon likes to do, and rarely, if ever, offers the option to buy something permanently, choosing to charge players every 30 or 60 days for some pixels, just because they can. This AND the fact that we will be using the retarded gachapon system (which forces you to spend money on a RANDOM item) is what has the community in uproar.

The tone of our cash shop is completely different from that of KDNF. Instead of:

"Wow, look at that cute outfit! That would be fun to wear, I'm going to buy it"

we have:

"Oh man, now I have to buy ANOTHER EXP card from the cash shop, so much for that new outfit"

essentially causing players to generally hate the cash shop, seeing it as a chore instead of a privilege.

Add this to the fact that previews for the first items for sale in the cash shop look HORRENDOUS, and look nothing like the outfits on the various characters in Youtube videos of KDNF PVPer's. It is completely nonsensical to release inferior outfits in the NA version, and no excuse can be made to the counter.

NONE of this is helped by Nexon's blatant refusal to offer any sort of condolences or explanation to the players, or even showing any proof that anyone up there reads our complaints, offering instead generic responses that sound cold and emotionless. Something like the "revolution" we are facing could be EASILLY avoided if Nexon would bother to show any interest in the concerns of us, the players. Even something as simple as

"We understand that you want <insert feature here>, however unless our polling shows that the majority of our players want change, this will be the standard for the time being"

or even:

"We understand that you want <insert retarded request for free avatar clothes or something here>, but as a company, we need to make money to keep running our servers, and for the time being this seems like the best way to keep the game fun at the same time. We will take your request into consideration and keep the community updated on if if there is sufficient interest."

would suffice. A thread with over 1k responses was on this very board, and Hime responded, telling us that she would try to find out what was going on and get back to us. The players were overjoyed with this less-than-a-paragraph response (further proving there is something very wrong with our complaint system), and almost a week later made a post basically telling us, probably on behalf of the people higher up:

"This is the way things are, and this is how they will be. We don't want players of the original KDNF to have a better advantage, so we are nonsensically increasing the EXP rate to punish new players and cause a minor speed bump to KDNF immigrants. We have no idea why you people are complaining so much, but stop doing it. Oh, and don't forget to buy cash shop items. Kthxbai"

The sheer lack of communication would be akin to going to a movie theatre to see the movie you have been wanting to see since you first watched the preview.... if the movie required you to pay halfway through the movie without telling you... and if in the movie there is constant chattering of other people telling you you can get buy popcorn from them for only two dollars... and if you couldn't bring your friends... and if you had to sign a paper every few minutes while the movie was playing assuring the staff that you are, in fact, watching the movie... WHEN you complain to the management that their theatre is horrible and you tell them easy ways to improve it, you would have the door shut in your face, or you would be asked to leave and never come back.

Note that this is a complaint for ALL Nexon games, not just DFO. There are only 2 forum moderators, so you can only blame them so much (Hime is argueably the most active, the other one who's name I do not even know never posts, instead only banning members and locking threads), and NO IN-GAME MODERATORS, leading to massive amounts of spammers in towns (Maple is guilty of this as well), and tons of bugs that are never handled. It is not that Nexon does not have the money to hire more moderators, it is simply that doing so would be play-effective, not cost-effective.

And there you have it.

Last edited by Jon; 09-28-2009 at 09:39 PM.
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09-28-2009   #2 (permalink)
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09-28-2009   #3 (permalink)
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Dont play Dungeon Fighter, and Ive dwelled in a couple Nexon games, but all the same, that is very epic ._. It would be amazing if the company takes any of that to heart, but considering their track record, Im not holding my breath.

I do agree there is something severely wrong with our 'complaint system' however, and it doesnt even matter what game it is, the result is generally the same. All it takes is one comment from someone on staff, regardless of position, and regardless of how vague their response is, and it seems the playerbase is content and pleased with that. Its just... its infuriating, to say the least, when you want the company to acknowledge things, and the rest of the community is happy just to have some bullshit answer.

Havent been on Nexon forums in years though. I wonder if they do like Ntreev and delete well thought out posts that question what they do.


09-29-2009   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Megiddo

Havent been on Nexon forums in years though. I wonder if they do like Ntreev and delete well thought out posts that question what they do.

Yeah, they either delete or lock the post and you get warned for somehow writing "Inflammatory remarks"

How silly expected of them.
09-29-2009   #5 (permalink)
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Unfortunately, Nexon forums and Nexon itself is very disappointing though you can scratch off the coin token as that's been taken care of, I HATE that captcha system as well...but I mean if Nexon is willing to change things, it'll take years.

Well even though I'll still be on DFO, I'm not buying anything from Cash shop.

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09-30-2009   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dotKaZE
Buckets. I came them.

A tear came to my eye. Quickly, spam Nexon's Block Party's feedback form with this!

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