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08-14-2011   7 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #1 (permalink)
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Default PVP ladder rankings! Top players on CN and KR.

What I posted on dragonnestsource.

Originally by Scar

Now. Can anyone explain to me why some people on these forums keep stressing Moonlords are OP and the absolute best in pvp? Perhaps moonlords are the best for average lvl 50 pvper, but from the results of both Chinese and Korean tournaments and rankings, they seem far from OP in top tier competitive play. Also, the link people provided for their tier list was made by a Selena, probably not a top player, and put Selenas as weak against everyone.

I believe rankings and results from Tournaments show a much more clear view of who is the best in the end for competitive play rather than biased observers or players. Viewing results and rankings allows you to make your own judgement. As for me, I believe the game's 1 v 1 pvp would be quite balanced, though perhaps a few classes might be not suitable for competitive play.

The 1v1 RATED PVP ranks (where you earn rating by winning, and lose rating when losing) are shown in-game.:

Chinese DN:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...i/4f472943.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...i/547202fa.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...i/cc568e3a.jpg

Korean DN:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...i/c83788ca.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...i/9cd154ee.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...i/f3256029.jpg


Chinese DN rated PVP rankings:

#1 Sniper
#2 Crusader
#3 Tempest
#4 Crusader
#5 Destroyer
#6 Crusader
#7 Destroyer
#8 Barbarian
#9 Elestra
#10 Elestra

Korean DN:

#1 Guardian
#2 Tempest
#3 Guardian
#4 Tempest
#5 Destroyer
#6 Barbarian
#7 Tempest
#8 Gladiator
#9 Barbarian
#10 Destroyer
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Last edited by Eternal; 08-14-2011 at 11:38 PM.
 
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08-15-2011   #2 (permalink)
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Both of these lists, show a good mix of classes, with the exception of a few. Only one Gaurdian and only one Crusader ; - ;....
 
08-16-2011   #3 (permalink)
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By Sniper does it mean a Sharpshooter or Acrobat? Because I've seen some videos of PvP saying "sharpshooter vs mercenary" or something, and the Sharpshooter is actually an Acrobat.
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08-16-2011   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theosis
By Sniper does it mean a Sharpshooter or Acrobat? Because I've seen some videos of PvP saying "sharpshooter vs mercenary" or something, and the Sharpshooter is actually an Acrobat.
Snipers are a job advancement of Sharpshooters.
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08-16-2011   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noperative
Snipers are a job advancement of Sharpshooters.
Yes I know, but since it's translated from another server, might be different.

Just like if you watch this video



Says Timer Stopper vs Sharpshooter but its actually an acrobat.
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08-16-2011   #6 (permalink)
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Because Moonlords have absurd damage and range. OP in the fact that they're strong without much effort. At least that's what I hear.

I don't believe in basing class rankings on foreign servers. Not only is there a huge gap between content and patches that could have potentially changed classes, but there's the difference in playstyles, mentality, and overall playerbase.
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08-16-2011   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theosis
Yes I know, but since it's translated from another server, might be different.

Just like if you watch this video

Says Timer Stopper vs Sharpshooter but its actually an acrobat.
I think it's just the person who uploaded it. I mean, they called that Smasher a Time Stopper.
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08-17-2011   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil679
Because Moonlords have absurd damage and range. OP in the fact that they're strong without much effort. At least that's what I hear.

I don't believe in basing class rankings on foreign servers. Not only is there a huge gap between content and patches that could have potentially changed classes, but there's the difference in playstyles, mentality, and overall playerbase.
yeah, thats the thing. Moonlords are assumed to be OP from a pvp chart a single Selena player made and few random pvp videos. These are also server based and we are not even near to getting our 2nd class advancement.

Lots of people are already assuming moonlords are OP with little result evidence or even pvped vs them themselves. This is just BS, since Moonlords are most likely not top tier in competitive play of other versions as seen from tournaments and rankings.

Im a physical swordsman going for infinity edge( not even magic like moonlord), and I bet some are gonna complain swordsman are OP if they lose because they think Moonlords are op.
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08-19-2011   #9 (permalink)
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Because Moonlords (and pretty much Warriors in general...) have everything they need to be theoretically the best class. They can run, they have ranged, they have AoE, they have combos, they have passive and auto guards with counters, they have damage...they have everything.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoflKnife
Because Moonlords (and pretty much Warriors in general...) have everything they need to be theoretically the best class. They can run, they have ranged, they have AoE, they have combos, they have passive and auto guards with counters, they have damage...they have everything.
You forgot the super armor part so they can attack through your own attacks.
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08-20-2011   #11 (permalink)
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why doesnt someone who has everything and theoretically the best win tournies and be top 10 then... it just doesnt make sense if you view it that way, an unbiased factual way.

anyways, no point in arguing if no aruging with results. There are way too many factors in an actual pvp to point out. Theoretically, acrobats have tons of escapes to keep their enemies at bay and drain away their hp. Theoretically, Paladins can block face on attacks then combo warriors. You can't say theoretically the best if you fail to list their weaknesses to other classes or fail to list other classes strong points.

Someone on Dragonnestsource replied that moonlords are in neither top 10 because all the moonlords in China and Korea are not that good( because NA pvpers wil be miracle moonlords). Assumptions.. Assumptions. assumptions turned into fake facts in the back of their mind to support their view.

Gonna get my acrobat to 24 today.
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08-20-2011   #12 (permalink)
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Because tier-whoring doesn't give auto-win if you suck ass compared to a stronger player.

e.g., Super Street Fighter IV Arcade Edition, 70% of Yuns suck ass because they're tier-*****s even though everyone knows Yun is OP as shit.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil679
Because tier-whoring doesn't give auto-win if you suck ass compared to a stronger player.

e.g., Super Street Fighter IV Arcade Edition, 70% of Yuns suck ass because they're tier-*****s even though everyone knows Yun is OP as shit.
not sure what that had to do with this arguement...we are not talking about the average user, but the top players. If Yun is OP( considering other characters are not), then there must be Yun players among top players( as in those who have the highest chance of winning since skill is subjective) unless there are bannings of Yun or restrictions placed upon them

If you are saying moonlord players are shit and thats why there is 0 moonlords in top 10 for both China and Korea, then again, as I previously said, you are assuming all moonlords are not that good in Korea and China.

Come on! Its a swordsman!!! The Swordsman class is about like the most populated character in most games that have them. China DFO is like filled with Slayers last time I checked. To assume that moonlords are not in top 10 in a competitive massively playerbased( for asia) game, though being of desirable class and OP, is preposterous!

Especially when you think about the mindset of a lot of top competitive pvp players. They WANT to win. This is why I am making an acrobat because they get so strong later and fun as well. If a class is OP in pvp, smart and fast learners will play him.
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08-20-2011   #14 (permalink)
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People say they're broken cause they're THEORETICALLY broken. Weaknesses? What weaknesses? Moonlords cover everything. If there's a weakness other classes have, they're already theoretically not as great as Moonlords, unless their strengths outweigh their weaknesses enough.

If you just completely rely on results and nothing else, your view will also be biased and skewed.

As for why they aren't on the top 10, because in a tournament setting, despite people wanting to win, they will not always choose the best character. Not a surefire reason, but a possibility. The Evo2011 BlazBlue results had only 1 player in the top 8 using the "broken" character, and they didn't even win. Some people are just incredibly, incredibly, good, able to overtake the advantage their opponents have and come out on top with a character not as good.

This is rated PvP too, so it would be helpful if we could find the results of tournaments instead.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoflKnife
People say they're broken cause they're THEORETICALLY broken. Weaknesses? What weaknesses? Moonlords cover everything. If there's a weakness other classes have, they're already theoretically not as great as Moonlords, unless their strengths outweigh their weaknesses enough.

If you just completely rely on results and nothing else, your view will also be biased and skewed.

As for why they aren't on the top 10, because in a tournament setting, despite people wanting to win, they will not always choose the best character. Not a surefire reason, but a possibility. The Evo2011 BlazBlue results had only 1 player in the top 8 using the "broken" character, and they didn't even win. Some people are just incredibly, incredibly, good, able to overtake the advantage their opponents have and come out on top with a character not as good.

This is rated PvP too, so it would be helpful if we could find the results of tournaments instead.
Ofcourse, Moonlords WOULD be OP if they have less weaknesses than every other class and more strengths as well... but

What do WE know about the game or balance at higher levels to judge who is OP and who isnt?

What do we know about the strengths and weaknesses of tier 2 classes after they evolved? Have you played against many moonlords? Have you played as a moonlord?

For gods sake, pvp being out for a day in NA with lvl 24 cap and we already know who is OP and who isnt at lvl 50

Also, I never said I base my judgments purely off of results. I am not accusing any character of being OP. I try to consider all aspects because making a judgement, and even then, I think of it as an opinion and not a fact. Have you considered that.. Moonlords may have some bit of everything, but specialize in nothing? Mercs dominate front up. Acro escapes and short combos. Elementalists spam AOEs and elemental effects. Paladins blocking attacks like a monster. Jack of all trades, master of none.

I don't like to accuse. I really don't, especially if its a negative. Thats why it frustrates me how we know so much about pvp balance for classes and later levels as lvl 24s who only witnessed 1 day of pvp.

also.. this is an online and changing game. There are patches and updates for this popular game... If Moonlords are so broken, developers can nerf them. If Moonlords are so OP, by the time we get third tier, they should be quieted down somewhat( if they are OP). The developers probably want to balance the game, even adding differences to pvp and pve components of skills.

As someone who has witnessed so many changes in perspectives as one rises through the ranks, I can say I know almost nothing about pvp in this game...

Lunia, back when beta. Siegs were getting dominated at early lvls. So I made a dainn and went on to pwning pvp ... until I reached lvl 60( was like 5th lvl 60 dainn) and faced Siegs like Zyris, xvertigo, and shadow, who uses nados, IH, and do loads of damage with nado combos while I feel my lvl 50+ skills are way subpar.

Same with League of Legends( though I sold my main account), when I stared, Ryze + Yi so OP for 1 v 1. New players, thats where 1 v 1 mattered the most. Then Riot changes Ryze because he is not viable for high elo play/1?! Then, I rise through the ranks, seeing so many shifts and changes.

Even last time I check League. 1400- Omg rammus so op do everything. 1400-1600 ban amumu pls #1 everything. 1600-1800 Mordekaiser OP at this elo please ban, #1 in brasil. 1800-2000, omg gg they got pirate. 2k+ omg you didnt ban fiddle?? PICK JANNA NOW.
There are just so many different perspectives and changes due to your skill level while balance should be revolving around high elo.

So Honestly, I can't accuse while being a lvl 24 with 1 day of pvp. And I'm not even frustrated over what you think, but the way and how you think.

Its like sheeps ready to believe, and ready to be led by another Hitler. It wasn't Hitler who is fully responsible for the massacres; Hitler led, the people committed. Educated people, smart people, dumb ones, lawyers, doctors, people from all aspects part of life gullible just because they believe opinions as facts, and ready to stand up for what they believe in. 70 years ago and now... current news and history

won't reply anymore since I have already stated my point.
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08-20-2011   #16 (permalink)
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CosmicBreak English:
-High cost, heavy tuned powerhouses only. OP.

CosmicBreak Japan:
-Low cost, min/max tuning. OP.

Have you considered the differences in psychology between different servers at all? Americans are so well known for being the all-out attack gamers with aggressive play. Moonlords give EVERYTHING to support that. Super armor, range to zone and cover, dashes to get in, relentless attacks, absolutely absurd damage.
As far as I know, Asians have the more tactful approach to fighting. That is not to say all (looking at Korean Street Fighter's Poongko), but the general idea is that Asians are more or less opposite of Americans in playstyle. From what I can see, that is true. Abundance of characters that require more thought to not get hurt or more passive play than something like Moonlords.

TL;DR American Moonlords OP. Real talk.
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You're thinking people are basing this off their day 1 PvP experience in NA DN. There are foreign versions of DN, and that's where people get their info and experience from. Of course people know about the balance and content in the future, we're taking it from the foreign version.

Moonlords are pretty god damn good in almost everything though. A tornado set up will destroy you. Their zoning is almost bar none (Snipers and Artillery are the contenders here), due to the huge range AND AoE of their skills, not to mention the damage. They have the required skills to be excellent at both far, mid, and close range.

Many online games don't fix balancing even when it's obviously needed. The few that attempt to are horrible at it. There are hardly any that can actually balance well. 3rd jobs have been out for a couple of months in the foreign servers now, I haven't heard of any balance patches since then, so I'm assuming there wasn't one. Nexon is on a roll and is updating their games very quickly, so I wouldn't be surprised to have the 3rd job patch in a few months. Chances are, Moonlords aren't getting a nerf/other classes aren't getting a buff.

And finally,

Quote:
So Honestly, I can't accuse while being a lvl 24 with 1 day of pvp. And I'm not even frustrated over what you think, but the way and how you think.
Likewise can be said, you can drop the high horse act and attack the argument, not the person.
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