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-   -   1144 or 3123? (http://ggftw.com/forum/charm-type/117813-1144-3123-a.html)

kikupapi 10-08-2012 01:46 PM

1144 or 3123?
 
EDIT: I'm planning on a Diva :P
I want this character to be fully PvP equiped. She will be most likely pure HP, but I'm having a small dilemma between that and HV. The reason I think 1144 is good is because it's relatively easy to get high AP in-game anyway, and the extra LK and WT gives you more room for Cards and crits. My only concern is AC, and possibly DX. My equipment will mostly be comped with HP and HV, and AP for early levels. I don't have any concerns for grinding since I consider myself to be pretty patient.

As a secondary question, which one is better, pure HV or HP? I'm leaning more towards HP, but I'm not sure.
All help appreciated, thanks!

Valese 10-08-2012 02:21 PM

HP for PvM, HV for PvP. Btw, are you a Raccoon or a Cat, might help if you add that in your first post. :3

(Also I think you meant 3124, since you can't go 3123) :py44:

Esper 10-08-2012 02:24 PM

If you're going the PVP route, I would go with 1144 or 2134 (if you're worried about AC).

From experience, you don't really need crazy amounts of AC to hit players. You don't even need much against HV players because it's just going to be a lot of miss between the two of you.

As for the DX stat. You shouldn't even have to worry about that kind of stat. You're not going to go around smacking people in between skills. It's not like you're going to be using Elemental Attribute in duels.

Like you said, AP is pretty easy to obtain so there's no need to worry about that. Even a refined weapon will give you a huge chunk of AP and that's more than enough. Once you get the HP/HV to back it up, there's no problem.

I view it as HP for PVP and HV for PVM. No point in having crazy amounts of HP if you can survive against the strongest monsters with a lower amount. If you can do that, you might as well have higher AP/HV to deal damage with other skills.

R 10-08-2012 02:31 PM

If you're not going to be able to manage 1,000 HV or so; it's best to just go HP in PvP. Personally, I feel that 3124 is the best build for any Charm Type (except Gambler), but if you're that worried about WT, then go 2134.

Cards weigh 0. Charms don't need more than 200 AC. You'll gain more (technically less) DX as you level, so you don't need gear for it.

Valese 10-08-2012 02:50 PM

HV for PvP.

You use 150k HP in PvP (impossible atm), but what's the point if you get ohko'd by some bunny using tetra because you have no HV to tank the hits?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Care (Post 1774710)
Personally, I feel that 3124 is the best build for any Charm Type (except Gambler), but if you're that worried about WT, then go 2134.

My Gambler is 3124 :py62::py19:

kikupapi 10-08-2012 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valese (Post 1774706)
HP for PvM, HV for PvP. Btw, are you a Raccoon or a Cat, might help if you add that in your first post. :3

(Also I think you meant 3124, since you can't go 3123) :py44:

Oh, whoops! Thanks a lot. :P I edited the post, haha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Care (Post 1774710)
If you're not going to be able to manage 1,000 HV or so; it's best to just go HP in PvP. Personally, I feel that 3124 is the best build for any Charm Type (except Gambler), but if you're that worried about WT, then go 2134.

Cards weigh 0. Charms don't need more than 200 AC. You'll gain more (technically less) DX as you level, so you don't need gear for it.

Ohh, okay, alright. I don't think it used to weigh 0, I guess that changed. XD Thanks a lot!
Like Valese said though, if you can't dodge a Tetra, what good would HP do?

R 10-08-2012 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valese (Post 1774715)
HV for PvP.

You use 150k HP in PvP (impossible atm), but what's the point if you get ohko'd by some bunny using tetra because you have no HV to tank the hits?

That's like saying what's the point of going HV if you can't get a considerable amount. Power Types have an easier time reaching above and beyond 1,000 AC than Charms do reaching 1,000 HV. With it being 1:1 between the two.. it's not exactly a good story.

Also; HV was nerfed - just the same as LK was, so even if you somehow have 9000 HV, you're still going to be getting hit more often than you should.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Valese (Post 1774715)
My Gambler is 3124 :py62::py19:


Doesn't mean it's the best. I say it's not because Full House's recoil is based on AP. But everyone has their own opinion.


Quote:

Originally Posted by kikupapi
Like Valese said though, if you can't dodge a Tetra, what good would HP do?

For surviving everything else that isn't a Bunny or Hybrid Buffalo.

Esper 10-08-2012 03:12 PM

You're already balancing HP/HV so it's assumed that you'll have a decent amount of HV as a pure HP. No one is saying to go into PVP with 120k HP and 400 HV. The same can be said about the vice versa. What's the point of going into PVP with 20k HP and magically getting 1hko when your HV fails.

Common PVP sense shows that balancing stats is important and always will be.

Valese 10-08-2012 03:43 PM

HV will always be more important than HP in PvP (especially if you're going to be a Gambler who doesn't have Sumo to rely on). So if you're going to be a PvP'er, spending money shouldn't be an issue. That said, you shouldn't aim for anything less than 60k HP with 1.2k HV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Care (Post 1774721)
That's like saying what's the point of going HV if you can't get a considerable amount. Power Types have an easier time reaching above and beyond 1,000 AC than Charms do reaching 1,000 HV. With it being 1:1 between the two.. it's not exactly a good story.

Also; HV was nerfed - just the same as LK was, so even if you somehow have 9000 HV, you're still going to be getting hit more often than you should.

Never said that having tons of HV is going to make everyone miss every hit on you. It does help make them miss more, I would know since a lot of people test on my Raccoon and when I put on a little bit more HV (say 20 more than their AC) they start missing a lot more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Care (Post 1774721)

Doesn't mean it's the best. I say it's not because Full House's recoil is based on AP. But everyone has their own opinion.

Then we should just not wear any AP, I guess. Don't understand how 4114 would be a better build for Gamblers (in your opinion) than 3124 (cause that's the /worst/ build), since you say Full House's recoil is based on AP?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esper (Post 1774722)
You're already balancing HP/HV so it's assumed that you'll have a decent amount of HV as a pure HP. No one is saying to go into PVP with 120k HP and 400 HV. The same can be said about the vice versa. What's the point of going into PVP with 20k HP and magically getting 1hko when your HV fails.

Common PVP sense shows that balancing stats is important and always will be.

No one said anything about 120k HP with 400 HV or not balancing at all? All I was pointing out was that HV > HP. Everyone sees all those average Raccoons stack up on HP HP HP, but get in PvP and get a one-way pass back to the waiting room in 1 hit.


Also, this is purely based on vs Bunnies/Buffalo's etc, since those will probably be the hardest to fight against in PvP for kikupapi in the beginning.

Valese 10-08-2012 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kikupapi (Post 1774703)
EDIT: I'm planning on a Diva :P

Sorry for the double post, didn't wanna add this in the other one.

Since you're going hybrid you won't have FH to worry about, so you should go 3124. Your strongest skill will be One Pair, which is based on AP/HV if I'm not mistaken. You will have Sumo and Super Hips to rely on, so 50k to 60k HP would be more than enough in PvP and PvM.

You would feel the loss of AP and AC at higher levels if you would go 1144, so I advice against it. Sure you would have great WT, but you will miss out on a great deal of AP and AC (DX isn't that important after a while).

The rest of your stats/equipments should be focused on HV. And most of your AP will come from base equipment stats and your weapon.

R 10-08-2012 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valese
Don't understand how 4114 would be a better build for Gamblers (in your opinion) than 3124 (cause that's the /worst/ build), since you say Full House's recoil is based on AP?

I never mentioned anything about 4114 or even stated which build I thought was the better choice for a Gambler.

Anyway. You seem kind of biased on the subject, so I have nothing further to say.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Esper
Common PVP sense shows that balancing stats is important and always will be.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Valese 10-08-2012 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Care (Post 1774741)
I never mentioned anything about 4114 or even stated which build I thought was the better choice for a Gambler.

You said 3124 is the worst build for Gamblers, that automatically makes 4114 a better choice. 4114 = more AP. So I was just asking how that is a better build for Gamblers.

I just know how much I love my 3124 Pure HV Gambler, that's all. :py35:

kikupapi 10-08-2012 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valese (Post 1774745)
You said 3124 is the worst build for Gamblers, that automatically makes 4114 a better choice. 4114 = more AP. So I was just asking how that is a better build for Gamblers.

I just know how much I love my 3124 Pure HV Gambler, that's all. :py35:

Care said "except Gambler", but I don't think he meant it as the worst. :P I think he meant that, in his opinion, he didn't think it was the absolute best.

I wanna thank you for all the help though! Do you play on Fantasia or Jewelia server? o:

Valese 10-08-2012 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kikupapi (Post 1774758)
Care said "except Gambler", but I don't think he meant it as the worst. :P I think he meant that, in his opinion, he didn't think it was the absolute best.

I wanna thank you for all the help though! Do you play on Fantasia or Jewelia server? o:

Jewelia :3

And yea I kinda misread that part, sorry about that.


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