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Sodacan 01-19-2010 07:39 PM

The Biggest Boomstick Around
Not sure if this is the right forum, but whatever.

In this thread I talk about Cannon mains! Yay! One of the most shafted main character classes (and general mercenary classes) in the game. Let's look at some pros and cons, then I'll talk about my own experiences.

Slash damage on AoE attacks
Excellent for PvP stun builds
Deep Insight makes leveling quick and easy, not just for the main character, but for mercenaries as well because of the defense debuff
Devastation Shell is a powerful DoT skill. It drops enemy defense, does good damage per turn, and drops enemy multi-hit rate.
Weapons and skill books are comparatively cheap to other main character classes

Damage is abysmally low, especially on splashed targets
Cannot hit flying enemies
Defensively weak as well, can be remedied in PvE by deep, deep pockets
Cannon craft teachers are few and far between, better have deep pockets to pay Choi Moo Son
Because of the lack of cannon crafters and users, decent cannons can be hard to find on the market, deep pockets can fix this, too. Get crafting!
Except for Deadly Shot, the cannons main's only magic abilities are DoT type
Boss fights are much longer, especially if you have a cannoneer or another artilleryman
Stun builds aren't as effective as they once were

For now, that's all I can think of for that. The cons don't really seem like much, but they can really hurt your wallet. For underfunded players, being a cannon main can be difficult in the endgame. Damage is low, but a high +'d cannon can fix that. Even with a +10 cannon, your damage will still be low in comparison to everyone else, even staff types.

DI makes leveling quick and easy throughout the whole game. It's also pretty good for leveling underleveled mercs, especially ones with an AoE attack. Just get a new witch? Let DI whittle down a whole formation then throw out a Meteor Strike and watch the EXP roll in. Or just take advantage of the defense debuff and let your physical attacking mercs get easier kills.

As soon as I hit 100 I started playing around with Devastation Shell. Long story short, it's a buffed up Deep Insight with a mini War Cry effect. At level 60 it takes of 14% multi rate, which isn't much but definitely helps. If stacked with DI, the negative defense is crazy and makes things a LOT easier to kill, especially with Seth's Will/Brutal Will.

That's all from a PvE standpoint. How do cannon mains fair in PvP? Not well. DMF makes stun pressure pointless, as well as making DoT builds equally pointless. As cannon main, sticking to ABFL is your best bet because there you DO have a chance to stun. But in manual PvP, you don't really stand much chance unless you follow the flavour(s) of the month. But if you're bandwagoning like that, there are better main character choices.

So let's sum this up. Cannon mains, in short, need a buff. Really, really badly they need a buff. Sure, they do okay in PvE, but are outclassed by Guitar and Staff mains. Or most others, to be truthful. For PvP, stick to ABFL if you want a chance. At the moment, there are much better choices for main characters. In my opinion, cannon is the second worst path you could choose. Axe being the worst, in my opinion.

(Took me two weeks to get around to finishing this. Wrote it because I was bored and felt like it. Not much point to it.)

Dook 01-19-2010 11:06 PM

Shafted? Lies! Well maybe a little bit...

When it comes to manual PvP I suggest you look at LH of Thebes.

Actually in my head I picture cannon mains doing better in PvP compared to PvE. Due to the fact that they got the 'cannon' role filled in (a generic stunDMF has inventor + cannonneer: you already cannon taken care of, so you're free to put another merc in \o/)

I guess in PvE your strength lies in your mercs :v Since you're the supporting guy that debuffs defence.

I do agree though, that they need at least a strong single target magic (no, not Deadly shot)

Shirakani 01-19-2010 11:11 PM

Cannon mains are arguably the main of choice to constantly win in div1 ABFL (if you are one of the few who care about actually winning in ABFL constantly). It also needs to be said that while the numeric damage for cannons seems lower if you're looking at a stat list, in actual reality if you compare a cannon main vs a gun main, both lvl120 with +10 nix cannon/gun respectively, the damage is actually somewhat equal (counting first target hit ONLY).

Otherwise yeah, you're right on the rest, cannon mains are arguably a weaker, less useful geetar. Weaker DoT than the top DoT class, and less control options. Sadly, cannon mains already did get a 'buff'. Dev Shell was changed from Dark type to Neutral type... that's nerfdoors' idea of a buff see. :py53:

I wouldn't say cannons are not popular though, recently there's been some rather odd demand for buying +10 nix/DG cannons at the upper end... I really do wonder why...

DarkRayne 01-19-2010 11:35 PM

Like kyo said, "less useful geetar"
The way I see it, that's all the cannon main is though that's comparing 100+ cannon to guitar class. Cannon has the benefit of + hit where guitars can only hit 2 targets at most and iirc the damage amount is the same or fairly close.
The fact that you get Devastation Shell at 100+ evens the playing field in comparison because quite frankly, Ravaging Melody is hax pre-100, though that's not saying it isn't hax past 100 because it still is but at least now Cannon's also have a similar weapon.
Cannon's and Guitar's could theoretically use the same build.

@Dook, everyone's power relies on their mercs. Cannon's and Guitar's just make the job of your sidekicks that much easier.

Shirakani 01-20-2010 12:05 AM


Originally Posted by DarkRayne (Post 1129791)
Cannon's and Guitar's could theoretically use the same build.

Which brings us to the main comparison point: Why are geetars in the top 3 classes for PvP/PvE, and Cannons hardly anywhere on the radar?

DoT capability notwithstanding as comparing DevShell and RM is somewhat on the moot side as they are similar enough... The main difference is control. All the top pvp geetars have maxed Melody of Madness. I will forever maintain that if the Minstrel's sleep skill can hit the main like MoM can, she will be a LOT better regarded than she currently is.

As it stands in PvP, stun is worthless at the top end, and so is DoT in general due to DMF. I've seen numerous geetar mains win a PvP without ever casting RM once, not even once. What won the fight for them were well timed MoM casts on key mercs. This in itself is a huge factor, being able to totally seal a merc's skill use and is something Cannon does not have.

PvE talking, RM/DS aside, MoM is also arguably the difference maker. Most of you know by now that endgame/expansion Bosses have ridiculously strong AoE's. Geetars at least have the option of sealing off the AoE by constant MoM recasting on the boss. Cannons again do not have the luxury.

The mains are similar, but what makes one top tier and the other low tier is simply one skill that allows well placed control.

Tamiki 01-20-2010 01:27 AM

Dunno why, but I though of Boomsticky when I came in here...

You have to be happy that CannonM are better then SwordM.

Shirakani 01-20-2010 06:07 PM

SwordM would be better if they made it so that;

1) They had flame resistance (i mean come on the merc does...)
2) Could OPTIONALLY dual wield like pirate. Either go 1hs+shield for tanking or dual for damage.

Two small changes.

Oh, and Chaos Edge being more value in PvE would be good too.

boomsticky 01-20-2010 06:15 PM

moved for relativeness...

Leyvaten 08-10-2011 09:22 AM

Well, I donīt have so much to say.
But, recently, iīve discovered that the weaknesses of the main cannons are bigger than they advantages.
Their most problem is that they do pretty low damage. DI can remedy that a little bit, and Seth Will can do that as well. But, still, Gun and Spear can do a lot more damage using a similar formation.
Besides, their extremely low defense, makes killing them pretty easy.
Princess can heal them every turn, but, even with that, meanwhile the enemy kills your mercenaries, you still be vulnerable for spreading attacks. (Spear,Gun, Instrument,...)
My conclusion: Cannons in PvP has lost a quite bit of power. How bad.

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