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07-26-2009   #1 (permalink)
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Default Formation help

I'll cut the crap and get down to it. I'm a cannon main and I'm not sure what I want to do with my formation.

My current formation is:

Sword | Sword | BT
Gunner| CannonM| Viking
Monk | Archer | Shaman

I've been thinking I want my mid line to be something like this:

CannonM | Jani | Cannoneer

I've also been thinking of tossing my archer in a merc room when it comes time to get an oracle. That way I can always have a heal ready when I need one and having Noble is nice. I don't know what to do with my frontline/melees. I'm not sure if I should keep my viking or get rid of the second swordsman.
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07-26-2009   #2 (permalink)
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Well just from what you've said you want so far you have

Sword | Sword | BT
CannonM|Jani|Cannon
Monk | Oracle | Shaman

Viking? Archer? Exo?

Move the viking up to frontline (two swords is pretty useless, as one is basically just for meatwalling). You'll be able to swap your Vik w/ your main as two pseudo-tanks. Shaman is nice for noble, but keeping her in PvE just for noble isn't that great; oracle should be able to heal pretty frequently even though she also needs to seth. In PvP, your double heal probably won't be as effective simply because other units can provide more utility in the place of the shaman, who would literally be there only for noble.

My suggestion:
Vik | Sword | BT
CannonM | Jani | Cannoneer
Monk | Oracle/Shaman | Exo, Princess

This gives you a decent frontline, a solid damage middle line that can be seth/brutalled, and good support from your staffs behind.
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07-26-2009   #3 (permalink)
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For suggestions of general game progression, refer to the thread i made in the Spear section as a lot of it is largely general. The only thing to ignore is the bit where i say throw out the arty, coz you are the arty.

Otherwise the same formation applies;

BT/LK/NVik
Can/CanM/Jani
Ora/Monk/Prop

I will always maintain that sething two cannons is the most awesome looking thing ever. If i were a cannon main i'd try sething a cannoneer, arty and cannon main for more epic boomy action. The only problem with doing that is as you get higher in levels the single target damage value per cannon shot is low as hell as for some silly reason, cannons are low in general atk power. However sething 3 cannons is THE ultimate 3v1 mob cleaner.

It LOOKS damn good, even though it'll never be the best in damage, i'll maintain it's the best in LOOKS.
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07-26-2009   #4 (permalink)
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Quick question, Shira,

Why is prophet so essential in several builds? Wouldn't a princess be just as beneficial for Soda's mass ranged? I realize that Concentrate is a powerful thing to pass up, but... I feel like princess might be a nice and less band-wagonny, but still viable alternative.
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07-26-2009   #5 (permalink)
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Prophet is essential due to the fact that you get one Healing from the Oracle per 2 turns. If both your front and midlines are low, which are you going to heal? Sure you can pop a BoL scroll, but scrolls notwithstanding, which is more important?

Can't decide right? It's a case of being able to have your cake and eat it too. Prophet makes it so that you generally won't have to heal your front row. If you DO have to ever heal your front row, you are fighting WAY beyond your capacity and in which case you should have some BoL scrolls anyway. Prophet buffs the attack and accuracy of your front row and keeps it alive so that your midline is free to damage, and receive healing when needed without having to worry about the survival of both lines.

That being said however...

Princess IS a fully viable option to buff the ranged line's defense. In which case it is also highly possible (but expensive) to frontline ranged mercs. This does require REALLY good armor on the mercs as Princess Order is nowhere even REMOTELY as good as Concentrate. The problem with using a Princess as opposed to Prophet is that Princess Order's buff is something you really can do without. Concentrate is something that's way too powerful to pass up. If PO was even HALF as remotely good as Concentrate i'd say stick the princess in no freaking problem.

tl;dr = Princess gives a mundane passive buff, and situational skills with no normal attack value. Prophet gives a ridiculously strong passive buff, with situational skills but high normal attack value.

Using a Princess AND Prophet in the formation is perfectly fine however. I know several high level builds that do it. But these are really high level players (115-120) that are really well geared. Even then though they do swap the Princess out when she's not useful. Prophet however will always fit into a formation as a passive buffer AND a decently strong normal ranged attacker.

You can try this;

BT/LK/NVik
Jani/CanM/Prop
Ora/Monk/Princess

Alternatively, swap the Jani for the Cannoneer if you want more splash damage or EPIC BOOMY ACTION. The only thing you don't want to be caught out about is having only one ranged attacker. Cannons do not hit flying, so if you want to not have a painful time in Ind101 or places like Tower of Babel or wherever there's flying mobs you want at least TWO that can hit flying. In this case, Prophet and Janissary. I don't count the magic types as melee attackers... If your Staffs are left clicking... something's wrong somewhere.
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Last edited by Shirakani; 07-26-2009 at 09:01 PM.
 
07-29-2009   #6 (permalink)
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Generally, as I've said before, it's a better idea to passive heal the frontline rather than the midline, because as long as the frontline is intact you have nothing much to worry about. With a prophet, you'll almost never have to heal the front, and you can focus your heals on the mid, or store up counters for seth, etc.
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07-29-2009   #7 (permalink)
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I heard a line from nation chat a while ago (forgot who said it) that i actually agree with...

"The weak need partners, the strong only need meatshields."

As bad as it may sound, i agree with it. The damage is largely going to come from the midline. Unless you are extremely well geared, your frontline will almost always be GUARDING during higher end content. Meaning that you have to focus on building up the damage from the midline or back line rather than the front. Instead of trying to increase the thickness of the glass on the glass cannons, make the wall in front of them bigger instead.
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07-29-2009   #8 (permalink)
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the strategy sounds good, and definitely applicable. Oda kicks my butt, and I have a feeling it isn't going to be the first time bosses can ohko me with regular attacks...

but...
forgive me for asking, but wouldn't the strong need... no partners or meatshields?
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07-29-2009   #9 (permalink)
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How about 'sacrificial targets' instead? In the case of a strong guy taking a weak partner with him to a boss so that the boss can OHKO the poor noob for one turn and leave the strong guy to prepare his attacks?

SACRIFICES FOR TEH GREATER GLORY!
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07-29-2009   #10 (permalink)
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I think it's the middle-of-the-roaders that need parties. If you're weak, you're still going to die when partied with a strong person, and if you're strong, you'd prolly be able to solo..

..then there are those who don't really die, but take awhile to down mobs due to gimped formations/weapons/whatever, and these people become way more efficient when paired.

As for boss fights, I usually keep my main right at the back, and always on guard- you need your main not to be under threat to pull off res/freezing/blessing scrolls. If you're facing a cannon boss, place a witch in the mid-back beside the main, so the chance of your main being hit drops to 2/9.
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07-30-2009   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirakani
How about 'sacrificial targets' instead? In the case of a strong guy taking a weak partner with him to a boss so that the boss can OHKO the poor noob for one turn and leave the strong guy to prepare his attacks?

SACRIFICES FOR TEH GREATER GLORY!
ohai i did this in marksburg.

wait a minute...
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07-30-2009   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javier
I think it's the middle-of-the-roaders that need parties. If you're weak, you're still going to die when partied with a strong person, and if you're strong, you'd prolly be able to solo..

..then there are those who don't really die, but take awhile to down mobs due to gimped formations/weapons/whatever, and these people become way more efficient when paired.

As for boss fights, I usually keep my main right at the back, and always on guard- you need your main not to be under threat to pull off res/freezing/blessing scrolls. If you're facing a cannon boss, place a witch in the mid-back beside the main, so the chance of your main being hit drops to 2/9.
This is pretty much where I fall under, it really depends on the mob on whether or not I die.
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11-24-2009   #13 (permalink)
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Hi.. I need some suggestion for my line up.

My main char is Cannon and my level is 73. for now this is my line up

BT/Vik/Exo
Gun/Can/Can(Main)
Princess/Shaman/Monk

my next target is inventor.. your suggestion is needed..
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